iFi iDSD Micro DSD512 / PCM768 DAC and Headphone Amp. Impressions, Reviews and Comments.

[HotIce]

There are two sets of people.
The ones that cannot hear electronic equipment burnin differences, and the one that can hear them ... but never, not, a, single, time, proved so.
Now, it has been measured in the past, that components where mechanical moving parts are involved, can show differences in measures.
Example, some parameters like resonating frequency of a speaker, can drop 1..2% or so (in a 15cm drive).
From measuring them, to actually hear them, is something that needs to be verified.
Solid state, electronic equipment, until someone, at least one, in a SCAM-free testing setup, can show it, I remain highly doubtful.

 

[youurayy]

Materials age and are affected by wear. That includes capacitors and other solid state components, not just mechanical.
 
A/B tests are heavily influenced by the set, the setting, the conscious and subconscious expectations, the familiarity with the source material, and the resulting emotional state of the person performing the test.
 
Lastly, if I can't hear something, it doesn't mean others can't hear it, and vice versa. Let's not be audio "nazis" here.

 

[Aegruin]

Thanks a lot for trying to help.

I'm sure IEmatch is switched off. iFi recommended to use ECO mode with HD650, but of course I've tried all of them.

BTW I can't hear difference between filters (standart, bit perfect etc). Device is playing 12 hours a day and I can't say it is getting way more better.

 
I barely heard a difference with very very sensitive monitors. I don't think you could hear a difference with an open back can. But the filters do affect very much when you are playing DSD. When you're doing that Bit-perfect is the smoothest thing you can hear and Standard is a sibilant treble monster.

 

[HotIce]

  Materials age and are affected by wear. That includes capacitors and other solid state components, not just mechanical.
 
A/B tests are heavily influenced by the set, the setting, the conscious and subconscious expectations, the familiarity with the source material, and the resulting emotional state of the person performing the test.
 
Lastly, if I can't hear something, it doesn't mean others can't hear it, and vice versa. Let's not be audio "nazis" here.

 
Where do you get your information about physics of components and the scale of their changes function of use and time?
There exist instruments able to measure part-per-billion changes in physical and electrical properties.
You, unless you underwent to some yet-to-be-discovered ultrasonic ear replacement, are not, as human, within the set that can tell the differences.
 
A/B tests are not influenced by set, or whatever expectations, or source material, because, applying to both A and B, do not skew the difference you are claiming to hear.
And, again, for the 10000 time, the fact that, not.a.single.one in a SCAM-free testing setup, have been able to show that yes, he can really hear the differences, should be a pretty gigantic clue.
But please, feel free to prove every doubtful individual wrong, with supporting facts, and I will take back every single statement.

 

[robertbratosin]

The ultimate test to really prove the burn in process

1.buy 2 identical headphones
2.first one leave it in the box , second one do the burn in process for 100.200h or how many hours it takes
3.after the burning in process completed do a blind test with the same source

 

[Triodemode]

Install foo_dsp_pregap

Insert 1500 ms of silence.

Use noise instead of silence (forces the DAC to wake up).

Thank you technobear.  I guess I will just have decide whether this cutoff is worth the firmware when using YouTube and VLC.

 

[HotIce]

I have personally experienced equipment burn-in more times than I care to remember. I know it occurs so what am I supposed to say to people who 'choose' on the basis of no evidence or experience whatsoever to declare they don't believe in it or that it doesn't exist?

Hmmm?

Are they all deaf? Ignorant? Deluded? It bemuses me.

 
Unless we venture into the religious world, where believing w/out evidence is all we can do, I am used to a world where you need evidence in order to believe.
FWIW, I did "experience" something myself a few months ago.
I did buy a new set of headphones I wanted to try, and as soon as I listened to them, they sounded super-dull to me.
So dull, I wanted to sell them or hand them over to friends.
Then I decided to stick with it for a few days, and sure enough, the more I listened to them, the more they sounded better to me.
Now, I still think they are not my cup of tea, but I can sit and listen to them, and enjoy them, especially with some types of music.
Was it "burnin"? Meh, I don't think so.
Much more likely, it was just me getting used to their sound signature.
And these were headphones, where there actually are significant differences among them, in terms of measures (AKA frequency responses).

 

[Sonic Defender]

The ultimate test to really prove the burn in process

1.buy 2 identical headphones
2.first one leave it in the box , second one do the burn in process for 100.200h or how many hours it takes
3.after the burning in process completed do a blind test with the same source

Still wouldn't be enough. You need multiple subjects and multiple trials, and even then there are many possible confounds. As well, most people would think that in blind listening trials if a user was right say 70% of the time in picking out a "burned-in" headphone it would mean clear evidence, but it wouldn't. Around 90% you get into some good basis for confidence, but I would expect to repeat that with the same user on a few different occasions and the results would need to remain consistent. The issue is that it is extremely difficult to demonstrate such effects, perhaps even impossible given the subjective nature of such experiences. What is striking to me is that for the most part, when I see the claims of burn-in effect, people are usually very clear that the perceived differences are subtle. Subtle effects should be regarded with healthy skepticism, a subtle effect is plausibly the results of expectation bias.
 
For the record, I remain on the fence about mechanical burn-in existing. I certainly can't positively refute it, but I have also never seen evidence in support of burn-in beyond somebody saying I trust my ears. I think it is a divisive topic, and ultimately a very un-important topic because it really doesn't matter how it is that our perception of sound signature change comes about, I think we all except that over time, often perception of sound signature does change and that is all we really need to know.

 

[HotIce]

You can see here one example, where measures support a change in physical properties of a woofer driver.
The Fs change is rather "significant" enough it is possible to be distinguished by human ear.
Whether or not it is actually possible to pick them apart by human ear, I never tried (neither I am aware of studies that did so).
 
http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

 

[iFi audio]

 

Our own experiences with "burn-in" (a material parameter change in electronic components over the early hours of being operated  in a circuit after being manufactured or inactive for a substantial time) caused us to investigate. Here some samples of the literature we found:
 

1. Self, D. 'Self-Improvement for Capacitors', Linear Audio 1 (April 2011), p.158 ibid, p. 159
2. Zumbahlen, H. 'Passive Components - Resistors and Potentiometers', Linear Circuit Design Handbook 1st Edition (2007), p. 10.20 ibid, p. 10.21
3. Kemet, 'SHELF LIFE AND RE-AGEING', Electrolytic Capacitors (Catalogue 2009), p. 17

 
Other examples exist and the above list is neither complete nor exhaustive. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Our own experiences with "burn-in" (a material parameter change in electronic components over the early hours of being operated  in a circuit after being manufactured or inactive for a substantial time) caused us to investigate. Here some samples of the literature we found:
 

1. Self, D. 'Self-Improvement for Capacitors', Linear Audio 1 (April 2011), p.158 ibid, p. 159
2. Zumbahlen, H. 'Passive Components - Resistors and Potentiometers', Linear Circuit Design Handbook 1st Edition (2007), p. 10.20 ibid, p. 10.21
3. Kemet, 'SHELF LIFE AND RE-AGEING', Electrolytic Capacitors (Catalogue 2009), p. 17

 
Other examples exist and the above list is neither complete nor exhaustive. 

Nobody disputes that electronic components change, the question is whether the changes are audible in real life listening. Measureable is not a guarantee of audibility. Not to mention, there is plenty of poorly done research out there, in fact, recent forensic evaluations of research published in leading, peer-reviewed journals has uncovered a significant amount of fraudulent, and or poorly done research so the research itself must also be scrutinized.

 

[Sonic Defender]

 
Whether or not it is actually possible to pick them apart by human ear, I never tried (neither I am aware of studies that did so).
 
http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

That is always the rub isn't it? I completely accept that mechanical burn-in results in changes, what has never been demonstrated to the best of my knowledge is that with multiple subjects, over multiple well done, controlled double blind experiments, that these changes are audible reliably under real listening situations. Until that research is done and replicated several times the claims remain appealing, but unsubstantiated claims. Again, I can't say one way or the other of course, so I remain hopeful, but skeptical, and I approach all claims that have marketing potential with an open mind, but also with equal doses of skepticism.
 
Anyway, I'll stop as I know this will simply derail the thread further so my apology for any deversion to date.

 

[osiris1]

Install foo_dsp_pregap

Insert 1500 ms of silence.

Use noise instead of silence (forces the DAC to wake up).

Thanks, and repped.

 

[cav1sa]

Install foo_dsp_pregap

Insert 1500 ms of silence.

Use noise instead of silence (forces the DAC to wake up).

Very cool. I don't mind the silence all that much, but good to know. Thanks!

 

[matbhuvi]

Just bought one from Adorama for sale price of $350
 
Anyone using iDSD with external HDD and android phone/tablet?