ifI iCan Pro - Impressions & Discussion
Apr 2, 2019 at 10:44 AM Post #1,351 of 2,267
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Thinking about upgrading my iCAN with two of these babys. Saw that two part teardown video on YT. To open the iCAN up i have to remove all the screws on the backside, but i guess i dont have to remove the buttons on the front, like he did in that teardown video, i am right? I dont think ifi can provide a guide for rolling tubes with ican pro, can you?

I wonder if these tubes sound like i hope they sound. By going from SS to Tube (with stock tubes) i notice there is lost a lot of details and resolution. Can someone tell if these tubes are that good? How much better are these tubes compared to stock tubes and how do they compare to SS only?

I really like that tube sound, but i am missing details with stock tubes. If these tubes really sound a lot better then stock, i am willing to pay good money. But i am not sure if they can get to SS level of detail and if its worth it.

If you want more details from your tubes we396a is the wrong way. They are the warmest and fullest sounding tubes you can get while not suffering details.

Bendix 6385 is king of details. They are extremely hard to find. The stock GE is already considered to be on the slightly harsh and detail side of things already. You can upgrade to the NOS GE triple mica 1950s. They are a direct upgrade over stock 1980s GE in all ways without changing tonal balance.
 
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Apr 2, 2019 at 11:10 AM Post #1,352 of 2,267
Thanks for that info. The we396A is the wrong way? Huh! For my understanding and what i have read, these should be the "the best"?! Please dont tell me i have to spend way more then WE396A money... please...

My "problem" with stock tube is, when i go from ss to tube, with the LCD-X i immediately can hear what is lost in the treble and there is lost quite a bit. I like tubes for what they do. I dont care if they change the sounds character. I even like it when they are warmer/fuller, thats what they should do. With stock tubes i immediately notice quite a big change in soundstage for example, which i really like. I like what they do to the sound in terms of soundcharacter. The problem here is, when i use tubes on the iCAN by switching from ss to tube/tube+ while listening to a song, i then quite fast go back to ss, since the sound is a lot more detailed in this mode. I want to use tubes, but compared to ss, i very often just cant. So my problem with stock tubes is what is lost in the treble/details. Feels like going from a really good recording to a bad recording, by only going from ss to tube/tube++, yet it is the same recording. I dont know if one can understand what i am trying to describe here. Quality is lost, thats the point.

If i can get the quality ss provides without losing anything in terms of details by changing the stock tubes, i will void warranty and roll some tubes. I love tubes. I hate what is lost with stock tubes compare to ss.

So if anyone can tell me what tubes exactly i should use to get what i want (tuby sound without losing details and resolution compared to ss), i will do it (probably).

In the end, the result should be "a different sound", not "worse in quality". Is this even possible without spending to much money on tubes? With stock tubes i get a feeling on missing something and thats not what i like to experience when activating tubes on the iCAN.

By the way, its the same on the iDSD. By going tube/tube+ mode on the iDSD (with iCAN in solid state), i also have this: "i lose to much" feeling. Yet it is only by a very small bit less of a lose, like it is on the iCAN, but that could have a number of reasons. The iCAN could smoothe things out, as i could image. Could because of the "different" tubes in the iDSD. But the difference comparing iDSD@ss with iCAN@tube to iDSD@tube with iCAN@ss is very small.

In both settings, yet you can clearly hear what is added by the tubes, you can also hear what is lost. Therefore in most of the time i use both iCAN and iDSD in solid state, which is kind of sad to me, since i generally like the character of tubes.

When i go tube on both, the iCAN and the iDSD, things seems to just add up. I get a really really tuby sound, it like it very much, but at the same time, the downside is adding up aswell.

My plan is, finding a tube and at first only "test" or repleace them in the iCAN and if i like it, may be going for the same pair on the iDSD. (May be testing a different pair of tubes in the iDSD later. Would be cool to have different tubes, different charakters in iDSDs or iCANs tubes.)

At this point i only can imagine by reading threads like this, what tubes i should go for (btw i have flyn over the hole thread and looked for post with this kind of matter already). There are ppl who have experience in rolling tubes in the iCAN. But i am not sure if it is even always a sacrifice compared to ss. Spending 300€ for a pair, voiding warranty and then still dont getting that solid state kind of quality, is something that bothers me.
 
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Apr 2, 2019 at 3:18 PM Post #1,353 of 2,267
Thanks for that info. The we396A is the wrong way? Huh! For my understanding and what i have read, these should be the "the best"?! Please dont tell me i have to spend way more then WE396A money... please...

My "problem" with stock tube is, when i go from ss to tube, with the LCD-X i immediately can hear what is lost in the treble and there is lost quite a bit. I like tubes for what they do. I dont care if they change the sounds character. I even like it when they are warmer/fuller, thats what they should do. With stock tubes i immediately notice quite a big change in soundstage for example, which i really like. I like what they do to the sound in terms of soundcharacter. The problem here is, when i use tubes on the iCAN by switching from ss to tube/tube+ while listening to a song, i then quite fast go back to ss, since the sound is a lot more detailed in this mode. I want to use tubes, but compared to ss, i very often just cant. So my problem with stock tubes is what is lost in the treble/details. Feels like going from a really good recording to a bad recording, by only going from ss to tube/tube++, yet it is the same recording. I dont know if one can understand what i am trying to describe here. Quality is lost, thats the point.

If i can get the quality ss provides without losing anything in terms of details by changing the stock tubes, i will void warranty and roll some tubes. I love tubes. I hate what is lost with stock tubes compare to ss.

So if anyone can tell me what tubes exactly i should use to get what i want (tuby sound without losing details and resolution compared to ss), i will do it (probably).

In the end, the result should be "a different sound", not "worse in quality". Is this even possible without spending to much money on tubes? With stock tubes i get a feeling on missing something and thats not what i like to experience when activating tubes on the iCAN.

By the way, its the same on the iDSD. By going tube/tube+ mode on the iDSD (with iCAN in solid state), i also have this: "i lose to much" feeling. Yet it is only by a very small bit less of a lose, like it is on the iCAN, but that could have a number of reasons. The iCAN could smoothe things out, as i could image. Could because of the "different" tubes in the iDSD. But the difference comparing iDSD@ss with iCAN@tube to iDSD@tube with iCAN@ss is very small.

In both settings, yet you can clearly hear what is added by the tubes, you can also hear what is lost. Therefore in most of the time i use both iCAN and iDSD in solid state, which is kind of sad to me, since i generally like the character of tubes.

When i go tube on both, the iCAN and the iDSD, things seems to just add up. I get a really really tuby sound, it like it very much, but at the same time, the downside is adding up aswell.

My plan is, finding a tube and at first only "test" or repleace them in the iCAN and if i like it, may be going for the same pair on the iDSD. (May be testing a different pair of tubes in the iDSD later. Would be cool to have different tubes, different charakters in iDSDs or iCANs tubes.)

At this point i only can imagine by reading threads like this, what tubes i should go for (btw i have flyn over the hole thread and looked for post with this kind of matter already). There are ppl who have experience in rolling tubes in the iCAN. But i am not sure if it is even always a sacrifice compared to ss. Spending 300€ for a pair, voiding warranty and then still dont getting that solid state kind of quality, is something that bothers me.

SS will almost always be perceived as having better detail. And it has more to do with the way we process details under the psychoacoustic hearing model. ie. Tubes due to their second order distortion (harmonic distortion) being higher than SS, means notes decay are typically more impactful where SS has less notes decay impact. What this translate to, is in complex audio passages, tubes will be perceived as having less detail because the same note sequence in SS would have the decay attenuated already.
 
Apr 23, 2019 at 1:18 AM Post #1,354 of 2,267
Anyone running the susvara with their ican and if so how does it sound. I am lovin my lcd 4 with it but considering getting a susvara to go with it. @bluesaint u may have some insight here for me
 
Apr 23, 2019 at 12:59 PM Post #1,355 of 2,267
Anyone running the susvara with their ican and if so how does it sound. I am lovin my lcd 4 with it but considering getting a susvara to go with it. @bluesaint u may have some insight here for me
Yeah i compared susvara out of entire pro stack and then swap out the amp for soundaware p1, and the p1 by a comfortable margin made the susvara sound better immediately. Not saying ican is bad, but the synergy just isnt there. Then I compared susvara vs. $3k speaker amp out of iesl, and this setup blows p1 away :)

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Apr 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Post #1,356 of 2,267
May I jump in here for a few thoughts? Thanks!

I have tried the ifi iCan Pro and several other amps driving my Audeze LCD3F's... both a 2 year old edition and now an edition that just came out that can be identified by the lightweight headband that has perforations... and I can tell you, once I got a Schiit Mjolnir 2 with the right tubes, my search was over! I'm telling you guys that this relatively inexpensive amp by Schiit has the right stuff under the hood... don't be fooled because it's so cheap... or made by Schiit.
 
Apr 27, 2019 at 1:18 AM Post #1,357 of 2,267
hello, some owners of ifi pro ican have tried to adjust + 18 db instead of + 9 db, I have the Audeze lcd4, I think I have gained in width of scene, with a little more realism, better separation, and especially without losing information or micro information, as with some power amp that bring light background noise, and loss of transparency, ....
 
Apr 27, 2019 at 4:20 AM Post #1,358 of 2,267


If you want more details from your tubes we396a is the wrong way. They are the warmest and fullest sounding tubes you can get while not suffering details.

Bendix 6385 is king of details. They are extremely hard to find. The stock GE is already considered to be on the slightly harsh and detail side of things already. You can upgrade to the NOS GE triple mica 1950s. They are a direct upgrade over stock 1980s GE in all ways without changing tonal balance.
hi is changing tubes easy like plug and play

can you link to great tubes upgrades from where to buy
 
Apr 27, 2019 at 4:22 AM Post #1,359 of 2,267
Yeah i compared susvara out of entire pro stack and then swap out the amp for soundaware p1, and the p1 by a comfortable margin made the susvara sound better immediately. Not saying ican is bad, but the synergy just isnt there. Then I compared susvara vs. $3k speaker amp out of iesl, and this setup blows p1 away :)

wow, amazing setups
 
Apr 27, 2019 at 3:43 PM Post #1,360 of 2,267
hi is changing tubes easy like plug and play

can you link to great tubes upgrades from where to buy
yeah, takes me 5min to swap tubes. tools you'll need:
  • Torx T10: to remove the screws from xlr,rca connectors
  • Torx T15: to remove the 4 large case screws
  • Hardened plastic tweezer / cell phone case pryer: to lightly pry the tubes pins out slightly from the socket so you can lightly wiggle back and forth in a controlled pulling motion
It's that simple. common sense on how much strength, and orientation of pins when placing new ones in, etc.. while it's not hard, couple caveats:
  • If you are still in warranty, then this would void your warranty
  • don't be overly nervous, but don't be careless
 
Apr 28, 2019 at 5:06 PM Post #1,361 of 2,267
May I jump in here for a few thoughts? Thanks!

I have tried the ifi iCan Pro and several other amps driving my Audeze LCD3F's... both a 2 year old edition and now an edition that just came out that can be identified by the lightweight headband that has perforations... and I can tell you, once I got a Schiit Mjolnir 2 with the right tubes, my search was over! I'm telling you guys that this relatively inexpensive amp by Schiit has the right stuff under the hood... don't be fooled because it's so cheap... or made by Schiit.

This just goes to show how different each individual's preferred sounds are. I had a Mjolnir 2 with the Gungnir Multibit for a long time and had found the perfect tubes for my taste to run with it. Though I absolutely loved the sound of it when I heard the iCAN's solid state ability run through the Gungnir I was blown away by the added clarity and sharpened treble without being shrill. I do still miss the sound of the tubes from time to time, but the iCAN tube socket makes use of my favorite tubes which I still own and will eventually swap into this unit. For now I will continue to enjoy the solid state portion and occasionally the GE tubes which certainly aren't bad, they just lack a more "tubey" sound.

I liked the WE396A's and was impressed by the bass response added to the MJ2, but ultimately I ended up preferring the sound of a pair of tubes that for all intents and purposes aren't supposed to sound better. They have OTK stamped on them and If I'm not mistaken I was given them for free when I purchased the WE's or a pair of Siemens tubes. I wish I knew what they were, but in my mind they are probably some bloody factory defect pair that wasn't meant to work as well as they did or the MJ2 for whatever reason just turned them into something else. @bluesaint actually took the WE's I had off my hands. I had purchased them from another guy on here who we both happened to know. Shows how little I know about tubes I was selling them for an amount that was a bit to high thinking they were of a more preferable year or based on the price I had paid for the Siemens I had and just forgot about. Saint helped me sort all that and I was happy to get them into the hands of someone who knew tubes as well as he does.

@bluesaint not sure why I haven't asked you about these other tubes yet, I am gonna send you a pic to see if you know what they are.
 
May 5, 2019 at 7:19 PM Post #1,362 of 2,267
Any of my fellow iCAN owners also own a KGSSHV or something similar? If you do have you found a successful way to run it with your iCAN in the chain?
 
May 11, 2019 at 8:09 AM Post #1,363 of 2,267
hi, i just want to ask please when I use a headphone with a 4 pin balanced cable, is it advised that the source ( dac ) that is connected to ifi ican pro to be balanced as well, or using the source with rca instead will be the same

my question is if my source is connected to ifi ican pro via RCA is it better to use the single ended inputs on ifi ican pro than using the 4 pin balanced input
 
May 11, 2019 at 9:21 PM Post #1,364 of 2,267
hi, i just want to ask please when I use a headphone with a 4 pin balanced cable, is it advised that the source ( dac ) that is connected to ifi ican pro to be balanced as well, or using the source with rca instead will be the same

my question is if my source is connected to ifi ican pro via RCA is it better to use the single ended inputs on ifi ican pro than using the 4 pin balanced input

I believe going balanced inputs into the pro would be recommended. If you can have a truly balanced input going in, I don't see why not :) Maybe others can provide more insight.
 
May 11, 2019 at 10:10 PM Post #1,365 of 2,267
I dont think it matters if the source is connected via rca or xlr as that will just change which input you have to set it to. The headphone XLR termination is solely affected by the amplifier itself. So if you run the single ended headphone cable you are unable to take full advantage of the amplifiers power. if you run the XLR cable you are recieving a balanced signal from the amplifier as far as the power that drives the headphone driver. However you are recieving your audio signal via an unbalanced signal. You may notice no difference at all if you used xlr interconnects vs RCA, but personally I believe true balanced XLR interconnects are the only way to go for the best signal path.

So yes you should well be able to use rca for your dac to amp connection and still find benefit from using your XLR headphone cable. Hope this helps.
 

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