iFi audio ZEN Stream - Streaming elevated to a higher plane

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Very intuitive, here's my response.

When you use Tidal or Spotify Connect, the digital file is streamed from the servers directly to the Zen Stream, you can shut your phone off and the playlist will continue to stream to the ZS.

With Roon, while you're phone can still select playlists, the Roon Core is processing the server stream and then delivering that stream to the ZS. If you shrink yourself down and get inside that stream ala Tron, you would see there are many more processes, ground planes, and the overall operating system control that has to give approval.

While technically there is a computer inside the ZS (even inside a CD player) the system of control is much simpler.
What's cool is iFi allows you to shut down even more processes via the switch on the back or software via iFi-local.

Why this is important takes a much deeper dive.

Gotcha, Thank you!

 

[dsnyder]

While I completely agree with your points, especially how hard it is to explain your stance. But I am very confused by one point you made. Inevitably there is a computer of some sort involved with streaming anything, so I'm confused to your comment on how the computer gets in the way, but then look forward to Spotify-HiFi or Tidal connect?

I guess what I am missing is how is using either one of their apps, different than using Roon remote? I don't think I have touched the little mini-pc that holds my Roon core other than to turn it back on after a power outage!

Other than that I am always using my iPhone or iPad to do the selecting and playing.

Did I miss something? Sorry if I have...

Cheers!!

Glad you said this…I was wondering the same thing. No system that I've found does a better job keeping the computer out of the music experience than Roon.

Do you have to have a computer to run Roon? Yes. But, it need not be anywhere near your audio system. In fact, it should be as far away as possible. The best solutions are "headless", meaning no keyboard, mouse, or display. Just power and Ethernet; you couldn't interact with the computer even if you wanted!

With that setup, you control music playback via a beautiful tabloid interface on a 10" or larger tablet. Audio-grade components, like the ZEN Stream, deliver pristine digital music to your listening environments.

You might think you could do the same with TIDAL or Spotify Connect, but imagine music in multiple rooms and everyone in the home with a smartphone or tablet joining in the fun. Anyone can see what's playing anywhere, add tracks the queue, learn about related artists, and enjoy a deeper connection to what's being played. Ten minutes of using those and going back to Roon makes it clear what the fuss is about.

Neither Roon nor the ZEN Stream are perfect, but they are the closest to perfection that I've found on this planet. When I find something better, I'll be sure to let you know.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Glad you said this…I was wondering the same thing. No system that I've found does a better job keeping the computer out of the music experience than Roon.

Do you have to have a computer to run Roon? Yes. But, it need not be anywhere near your audio system. In fact, it should be as far away as possible. The best solutions are "headless", meaning no keyboard, mouse, or display. Just power and Ethernet; you couldn't interact with the computer even if you wanted!

With that setup, you control music playback via a beautiful tabloid interface on a 10" or larger tablet. Audio-grade components, like the ZEN Stream, deliver pristine digital music to your listening environments.

You might think you could do the same with TIDAL or Spotify Connect, but imagine music in multiple rooms and everyone in the home with a smartphone or tablet joining in the fun. Anyone can see what's playing anywhere, add tracks the queue, learn about related artists, and enjoy a deeper connection to what's being played. Ten minutes of using those and going back to Roon makes it clear what the fuss is about.

Neither Roon nor the ZEN Stream are perfect, but they are the closest to perfection that I've found on this planet. When I find something better, I'll be sure to let you know.

That was awesome!! I just went with the simpler as I often do..

Perhaps @Bill Allen 2 would benefit from a Roon nucleus, perhaps the one that can rip and store his entire music collection!

Or to put it simpler the one I can't afford!!

 

[dsnyder]

Very intuitive, here's my response.

When you use Tidal or Spotify Connect, the digital file is streamed from the servers directly to the Zen Stream, you can shut your phone off and the playlist will continue to stream to the ZS.

With Roon, while you're phone can still select playlists, the Roon Core is processing the server stream and then delivering that stream to the ZS. If you shrink yourself down and get inside that stream ala Tron, you would see there are many more processes, ground planes, and the overall operating system control that has to give approval.

While technically there is a computer inside the ZS (even inside a CD player) the system of control is much simpler.
What's cool is iFi allows you to shut down even more processes via the switch on the back or software via iFi-local.

Why this is important takes a much deeper dive.

You make a fair point, but when you look closely, you'll find that TIDAL and Spotify Connect work the little CPU in the ZEN Stream harder than does streaming via Roon. In total, a Roon system may be doing more "work", but it's doing much LESS work nearby to your DAC, and that's what matters. Roon endpoints don't even uncompress FLAC streams. They do little more than copy [ready to play] digital audio from the network to a directly connected DAC.

Other streaming protocols and methods shift more of this processing burden to the endpoint where it can spoil the sound. Depending on the use case, that may not be a big deal…often it's not. But, if you have a highly resolving system, you're going to benefit by an architecture that minimizes processing on the endpoint.

Edit: the @iFi audio folks can elaborate, but I imagine this is why the ZEN Stream has a mode selector for "Roon only" mode and others…to minimize local processing in service of sound quality.

 

[Bill Allen 2]

My experience in computer audio has taught me the less the processing the better the sound, however you have to use your ears because we have little control over the actual processes. People have dreamed up all kinds of nonsense on what improves the sound with computer audio, but yes removing the computer to a different room is one of those things that consistently improves the sound.

However I have no empirical evidence to support your Endpoint hypothesis, if would be fun to get together and discover the audio truth, the Zen Stream is brand new animal.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

My experience in computer audio has taught me the less the processing the better the sound, however you have to use your ears because we have little control over the actual processes. People have dreamed up all kinds of nonsense on what improves the sound with computer audio, but yes removing the computer to a different room is one of those things that consistently improves the sound.

However I have no empirical evidence to support your Endpoint hypothesis, if would be fun to get together and discover the audio truth, the Zen Stream is brand new animal.

@Bill Allen 2 In your first post you said something about accessing your stored music, how are you storing this music? As I said above perhaps a Nucleus type solution would be better for your ears. This year I have started buying cd's again, 2 years ago I started buying vinyl again because of my dislike for some of the quality of streaming services, and differences from one to another.

My Audiolab Transport was the most wonderful gift I got late last year!

Here's a link for you if you haven't seen them already...

https://roonlabs.com/nucleus

 

[Bill Allen 2]

I just downloaded the new Stream-iFi app on my iPhone but for the life of me I can't figure how to get it to work.

I think it wants me to connect via Wifi just to get started, I'm currently using ethernet.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I just downloaded the new Stream-iFi app on my iPhone but for the life of me I can't figure how to get it to work.

I think it wants me to connect via Wifi just to get started, I'm currently using ethernet.

I think it's just asking permission to find your device, I'm wired also and it connected right up.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Basically it's the same as the ifi.local browser interface from what I saw.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

The app obviously is much faster than the browser interface...

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Just another quick screenshot of an album playing from hard drive...

 

[Bill Allen 2]

@Bill Allen 2 In your first post you said something about accessing your stored music, how are you storing this music? As I said above perhaps a Nucleus type solution would be better for your ears. This year I have started buying cd's again, 2 years ago I started buying vinyl again because of my dislike for some of the quality of streaming services, and differences from one to another.

My Audiolab Transport was the most wonderful gift I got late last year!

Here's a link for you if you haven't seen them already...

https://roonlabs.com/nucleus

I took the Pepsi challenge with the original Nucleus a few years ago, I wasn't impressed, same with the software Roon Core trial today.
It's more then just sound quality, there is a heavy handiness about it I just don't like, not to mention the yearly fee.
I almost broke out in a rash.

Maybe if somebody snuck in my house and secretly mounted the new Nucleus and set it all up for me and it just worked... I might give it a try.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I took the Pepsi challenge with the original Nucleus a few years ago, I wasn't impressed, same with the software Roon Core trial today.
It's more then just sound quality, there is a heavy handiness about it I just don't like, not to mention the yearly fee.
I almost broke out in a rash.

Maybe if somebody snuck in my house and secretly mounted the new Nucleus and set it all up for me and it just worked... I might give it a try.

Well good luck in finding what you need for you! Perhaps some jigawatts and a trip forward in time will yield some results, lol

Cheers!!

P.S.

Very glad to pay for something that just simply works, and works well, nothing heavy handed about offering a product or service that benefits the person using it to their needs and wants.

 

[Bill Allen 2]

I think it's just asking permission to find your device, I'm wired also and it connected right up.

Thanks, I just deleted the app and reinstalled it, it just wanted permission now it's working.
Yup it look just like the iFi-local program.

Damn, it still won't stream my DSD files.

What am I doing wrong.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Thanks, I just deleted the app and reinstalled it, it just wanted permission now it's working.
Yup it look just like the iFi-local program.

Damn, it still won't stream my DSD files.

What am I doing wrong.

I have no earthly idea, I'm listening to DSD gapless right now...