iFi audio ZEN Stream - Streaming elevated to a higher plane

[JjB067]

Glad to hear that, but I think you meant to update us here...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-neo-stream-sweet-streams.964997/

Cheers!!

Sorry about posting in the wrong thread, will post in the Neo thread as well !

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Sorry about posting in the wrong thread, will post in the Neo thread as well !

No problem bro, I thought you'd wanna update where you started, I have done it myself!

Cheers!!

 

[kramos]

Not officially but you can

If there’s a better way than the UPnP Bridge for LMS, I’d love to hear it. However, after much tinkering, I’ve got the plugin working pretty well.

 

[smutnyjoe]

I have an interesting question regarding Tidal and Roon streaming via iFi Zen Stream.
I've been using Tidal via Roon to stream to iFi Zen stream, then to my DAC.
Everything worked ok and I liked the experience. Recently I opened directly the Tidal app, by accident when quickly opening one of my playlists for an evening listening session. Soon I was very surprised at how much better each song sounds. More alive, with better dynamic range. Initially, I didn't even notice I was using the Tidal app directly but the difference was substantial; I wasn't even listening very actively (at the beginning).

Today, I tested it again, this time consciously, that is, switching between apps. I really enjoy Tidal more!

Do you know if there is any reason that it can sound better when streaming via Tidal, not Roon? Can it be related to iFi Zen Stream? Or maybe the apps themselves?

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I have an interesting question regarding Tidal and Roon streaming via iFi Zen Stream.
I've been using Tidal via Roon to stream to iFi Zen stream, then to my DAC.
Everything worked ok and I liked the experience. Recently I opened directly the Tidal app, by accident when quickly opening one of my playlists for an evening listening session. Soon I was very surprised at how much better each song sounds. More alive, with better dynamic range. Initially, I didn't even notice I was using the Tidal app directly but the difference was substantial; I wasn't even listening very actively (at the beginning).

Today, I tested it again, this time consciously, that is, switching between apps. I really enjoy Tidal more!

Do you know if there is any reason that it can sound better when streaming via Tidal, not Roon? Can it be related to iFi Zen Stream? Or maybe the apps themselves?

I have heard this many times and have experienced it myself just recently.

I want to say that sometimes it just comes down to synergy between things, and sometimes the explanation escapes me. Let me start here,...

I am a Roon user and do not actively subscribe to Tidal anymore, however, I just signed back up for the purpose of evaluating the new NEO Stream and giving some reports on it, so I felt it was necessary to be accurate to at least give Tidal a month or so, in general, I always preferred Qobuz when it came to Hi-Rez services, and on top of that, all the MQA stuff, folds, first unfolds, yada yada..., and whatever was needed to get the best out of Tidal, just pushed me away from it. Not knocking Tidal, it just honestly felt like I never knew if I was getting the best sound quality based on what I was paying for, so I stuck with Qobuz as it's pretty straightforward.

That being said, in testing the NEO, I was shocked at how good Tidal Connect sounded. I even commented that Tidal users would be very happy with the implementation of Tidal Connect with this new unit. Now in regards to the ZS, we have heard the same reports here of exactly what you have just posted! Perhaps there has been a change on the Tidal end, perhaps with the new Roon 2.0 something has fallen away, but I myself always preferred Roon to Tidal connect when I had Tidal, so as you point out something has clearly changed.

As soon as it is possible for me to do so, I am going to test this again now that I am subscribed again to see if I can also hear what you are hearing, and Thanks for pointing it out. There are many Tidal subscribers here so hopefully, we can have their opinions as well.

Cheers!!

Edit: As I was thinking about this I neglected to ask you if you noticed this difference in using the exclusive modes, or in AIO mode.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

I have heard this many times and have experienced it myself just recently.

I want to say that sometimes it just comes down to synergy between things, and sometimes the explanation escapes me. Let me start here,...

I am a Roon user and do not actively subscribe to Tidal anymore, however, I just signed back up for the purpose of evaluating the new NEO Stream and giving some reports on it, so I felt it was necessary to be accurate to at least give Tidal a month or so, in general, I always preferred Qobuz when it came to Hi-Rez services, and on top of that, all the MQA stuff, folds, first unfolds, yada yada..., and whatever was needed to get the best out of Tidal, just pushed me away from it. Not knocking Tidal, it just honestly felt like I never knew if I was getting the best sound quality based on what I was paying for, so I stuck with Qobuz as it's pretty straightforward.

That being said, in testing the NEO, I was shocked at how good Tidal Connect sounded. I even commented that Tidal users would be very happy with the implementation of Tidal Connect with this new unit. Now in regards to the ZS, we have heard the same reports here of exactly what you have just posted! Perhaps there has been a change on the Tidal end, perhaps with the new Roon 2.0 something has fallen away, but I myself always preferred Roon to Tidal connect when I had Tidal, so as you point out something has clearly changed.

As soon as it is possible for me to do so, I am going to test this again now that I am subscribed again to see if I can also hear what you are hearing, and Thanks for pointing it out. There are many Tidal subscribers here so hopefully, we can have their opinions as well.

Cheers!!

Edit: As I was thinking about this I neglected to ask you if you noticed this difference in using the exclusive modes, or in AIO mode.

I subscribe what's been said above. I was a Tidal Master user for some time and always thought the sound using Connect (w/Zen Stream) was very good. Then moved to Roon, mostly to be able to stream from Quobuz, although I kept a subscrition of Tidal CD-quality (it only costs 4 USD in Brazil). Now I'm using a NUC and the Zen Stream and I'm very pleased with the sound, in addition to the great ecosystem provided by Roon. Today I went back and tried to compare Tidal (FLAC)/Roon with Tidal Connect. I used one single song that I love and it's very well recorded (Alice - Tom Waits), so take this with a grain of salt. The differences were subtle, with Tidal Connect it sounded a bit more "open" and relaxed (not sure this is the right word), but the main difference was that Tidal Connect seemed to yield a higher level of sound, which made the impression that the music was fuller. If you level match the two streaming options, by increasing the volume a bit with Roon, this effect faded away. I used AIO mode for this comparison. Well, maybe this is all my brain "hearing things", but it's my two cents of contribution to your question. In any case, I should say that Tidal Connect works very well with the Zen Stream and so does Roon. Cheers

 

[smutnyjoe]

I have heard this many times and have experienced it myself just recently.

I want to say that sometimes it just comes down to synergy between things, and sometimes the explanation escapes me. Let me start here,...

I am a Roon user and do not actively subscribe to Tidal anymore, however, I just signed back up for the purpose of evaluating the new NEO Stream and giving some reports on it, so I felt it was necessary to be accurate to at least give Tidal a month or so, in general, I always preferred Qobuz when it came to Hi-Rez services, and on top of that, all the MQA stuff, folds, first unfolds, yada yada..., and whatever was needed to get the best out of Tidal, just pushed me away from it. Not knocking Tidal, it just honestly felt like I never knew if I was getting the best sound quality based on what I was paying for, so I stuck with Qobuz as it's pretty straightforward.

That being said, in testing the NEO, I was shocked at how good Tidal Connect sounded. I even commented that Tidal users would be very happy with the implementation of Tidal Connect with this new unit. Now in regards to the ZS, we have heard the same reports here of exactly what you have just posted! Perhaps there has been a change on the Tidal end, perhaps with the new Roon 2.0 something has fallen away, but I myself always preferred Roon to Tidal connect when I had Tidal, so as you point out something has clearly changed.

As soon as it is possible for me to do so, I am going to test this again now that I am subscribed again to see if I can also hear what you are hearing, and Thanks for pointing it out. There are many Tidal subscribers here so hopefully, we can have their opinions as well.

Cheers!!

Edit: As I was thinking about this I neglected to ask you if you noticed this difference in using the exclusive modes, or in AIO mode.

Thanks for your reply.
I'm always using AIO mode. To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine how it could influence the sound, and I couldn't find any argument in the user manual. But maybe there are some technical differences that were discussed in this thread (I wasn't following the thread before)

I was thinking that it may be related to the loudness level as @Vitor Goncalves mentioned because I've realized how important it is since I started blind-testing my audio gear. This time I bet the difference is somewhere else, probably some filter/upscaling/algorithm/unfolding level that's hidden inside the software.

 

[FooFighter]

Thanks for your reply.
I'm always using AIO mode. To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine how it could influence the sound, and I couldn't find any argument in the user manual. But maybe there are some technical differences that were discussed in this thread (I wasn't following the thread before)

I was thinking that it may be related to the loudness level as @Vitor Goncalves mentioned because I've realized how important it is since I started blind-testing my audio gear. This time I bet the difference is somewhere else, probably some filter/upscaling/algorithm/unfolding level that's hidden inside the software.

Playing native Tidal, Tidal over Roon native or Roon further to HQPLAYER or Tidal over Audirvana will sound different each time and yes I think it's related to internal filters even if no upsampling is applied.
HQPlayer is making it at least more transparent which filters are used and you have the largest variety of adopting the sound to your liking.
Zen Stream also has a built-in NAA client for HQPLAYER

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I subscribe what's been said above. I was a Tidal Master user for some time and always thought the sound using Connect (w/Zen Stream) was very good. Then moved to Roon, mostly to be able to stream from Quobuz, although I kept a subscrition of Tidal CD-quality (it only costs 4 USD in Brazil). Now I'm using a NUC and the Zen Stream and I'm very pleased with the sound, in addition to the great ecosystem provided by Roon. Today I went back and tried to compare Tidal (FLAC)/Roon with Tidal Connect. I used one single song that I love and it's very well recorded (Alice - Tom Waits), so take this with a grain of salt. The differences were subtle, with Tidal Connect it sounded a bit more "open" and relaxed (not sure this is the right word), but the main difference was that Tidal Connect seemed to yield a higher level of sound, which made the impression that the music was fuller. If you level match the two streaming options, by increasing the volume a bit with Roon, this effect faded away. I used AIO mode for this comparison. Well, maybe this is all my brain "hearing things", but it's my two cents of contribution to your question. In any case, I should say that Tidal Connect works very well with the Zen Stream and so does Roon. Cheers

I think you may be onto something with the "Volume" level, for lack of a better term. I noticed on my meters a very slight difference on the exact same track played from Roon/Tidal to Tidal/Tidal Connect the latter having what old timers like me would call a slightly hotter level on my dusty meter!

It's subtle and as you and others have said after volume matching the difference is not as noticeable! But this is an old trick is it not? How it's done I haven't a clue, but at least I think I know what the difference I was hearing was until someone tells me I'm wrong anyway! LMAO

Managed to snap a quick pic, of the overage, where I know it was not before on that input to my big ole dusty knob!

Cheers!!

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Thanks for your reply.
I'm always using AIO mode. To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine how it could influence the sound, and I couldn't find any argument in the user manual. But maybe there are some technical differences that were discussed in this thread (I wasn't following the thread before)

I was thinking that it may be related to the loudness level as @Vitor Goncalves mentioned because I've realized how important it is since I started blind-testing my audio gear. This time I bet the difference is somewhere else, probably some filter/upscaling/algorithm/unfolding level that's hidden inside the software.

A couple of years ago I was wondering about the same issue, but with the Bluesound Node 2i. I realized that Tidal Connect (then at its early stages) sounded better than the BluOS. Bluesound just told me "that's not possible". Not happy, I talked to someone I know, who works in a small company that makes hifi gear. He told me that when I was using Tidal Connect, I was bypassing the internal clock of the Tablet and using one single Master Clock (the Node), whereas BluOS was not assincronous, meaning the clock within the tablet could have a conflict with the internal clock of the Node. I don't know if this makes sense and how clock issues could be at stake here (Roon vs Connect), as these things are "out of my league". I'm just sharing, knowing this maybe too obvious for a lot of people in this thread.

 

[dakchi]

Hi,
I just subscribed to Qobuz to compare it to Tidal. I can't find a way to stream my music to Ifi Zen Stream like with Tidal. Is this normal?
Thanks

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Hi,
I just subscribed to Qobuz to compare it to Tidal. I can't find a way to stream my music to Ifi Zen Stream like with Tidal. Is this normal?
Thanks

Yes unfortunately it is normal. Qobuz does not have a Qobuz "Connect" option the same as Tidal and Spotify do.

In the case of Qobuz to the ZS you have to use a third-party app, like Mconnect, or a service like Roon or Audivarna.

Cheers!!

 

[dakchi]

Yes unfortunately it is normal. Qobuz does not have a Qobuz "Connect" option the same as Tidal and Spotify do.

In the case of Qobuz to the ZS you have to use a third-party app, like Mconnect, or a service like Roon or Audivarna.

Cheers!!

It worked with Mconnect Lite. Thank you
First impressions: Qobuz sounds like Tidal. I couldn't hear any difference

 

[germe]

Anyone experiencing a problem with tidal connect?
The streamer just doesn't want to play music. the iPhone player the track is stuck on 0

 

[germe]

Update
All good. My tidal connect is back