iFi audio NEO Stream - Sweet Streams!

[dakchi]

Those who are using Neo Stream with an external DAC, is the sound different when you use USB or I2S? one of the reasons why I could buy Neo Stream is to have I2S connector that I currently do not have in my Zen Stream, but it has to improve the sound, otherwise it is not worth it

 

[ctrlm]

Those who are using Neo Stream with an external DAC, is the sound different when you use USB or I2S? one of the reasons why I could buy Neo Stream is to have I2S connector that I currently do not have in my Zen Stream, but it has to improve the sound, otherwise it is not worth it

It might be a while before I get the proper time to compare and I'd like to get a much shorter HDMI cable before I do it. All I've done so far is confirm that it works with a 3M long cable. Maybe someone else has already done it?

My expectation is that it will make little difference compared to the Spring 3 KTE USB input based on some things I've read....but you never know.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I got my iFi NEO stream last week, I was going to share some first impressions here in the thread, but I noticed that @Rowan94 @panoptikon @Jj0b67and @ctrlm @mrdid @Mr BubbaHyde @ra990 did a great job doing it, so there wasn’t anything else to add by that moment.

In this review, I will try to focus on some other aspects of the iFi NEO Stream (NS), that may have not been discussed in previous posts.

Part 1

• What was tested?
• Setups and equipment used
• Software

Part 2

• Sound Quality
• Direct DSD
• USB on Chord DACs

Part 3

• Comparisons (ifi Zen Stream) (Lumin T2)
• Conclusions
• Notes

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was tested?

iFi NEO stream is a device packed with a lot of features and options, that in addition to third party software, unleashes many possibilities of usage when paired to other audio components, audio players and software. This makes almost impossible to cover every possibility in such a short period of time, apart from the fact that I don’t have all the necessary cables and adapters to test every single input or output. Below is a keyword list of the tested and untested items:

TESTED:

• Software:
  • ROON / HQplayer (NAA) / iFi options menu / iFi phone app / IFi.local / Mac OS / iNEOs internal digital volume control / Airplay / DoP.

• Hardware:
  • USB, optical / Analog RCA outputs / Optibox / optical LAN / Ethernet / internal DAC / digital filters / iNEOs display and menus / volume knob / iPower X / Reset Button.

• Audio Services:
  • Tidal and Qobuz via Roon / Mac local Library.

• Audio Formats:
  • FLAC / DSD / MQA / AAC

NOT TESTED:

• Hardware:
  • Coaxial / AES-EBU / I2s / M12 LAN / Wi-fi / hotspot mode / balanced output (pentacon) / included RCA interconnects.

• Software:
  • Volumio player/ Windows PC / DLNA-UPnP / Spotify connect / Tidal Connect.

• Audio Formats:
  • MP3, WAV, AIFF, WMA

Note:
90% of my listening time was using my Mac mini i5 as music server for ROON with and without HQplayer. The other 10% was spent playing videos and movies via Airplay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Setups and equipment used:


Power: Furman SPR 20 / iPowerX / Topping P50

Digital source chain: Mac Mini (ROON) > Ethernet switch > Optibox > iNEOs >

DACs: NS internal DAC / Hugo TT2 / Mojo 2 / Zorloo Ztella MQA / McIntosh DA1 module.

• Headphone setups:
• Amps: ZMF Pendant / MA8900 / Feliks Echo / Hugo TT2 / Mojo 2 / Zorloo Ztella MQA.
• Headphones - IEMs: ZMF Verite / ZMF Aeolus / HD6XX / Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk

• Speaker setup:
• Amp: MA8900
• Speakers: Sonus Faber Sonetto III

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Software

- Overview

The NS has 5 selectable modes: AIO, DLNA, Tidal Connect, ROON and Signalyst (NAA). The first mode “AIO” allows the use of the Volumio music player, library options, web radio and general settings. These settings can be accessed via ifi.local in a web browser, or the iFi App when using a mobile device. In AIO mode NS also works as a universal streamer and will be able to respond to any incoming music streaming, regardless of the compatible software or method used. The other modes are software specific and allow the user to select basic options only.


- ROON:

Since I started using ROON a few years ago, there was no way of looking back. Almost every audiophile is familiar to the qualities of this music player. Making ZEN Stream (ZS) a “ROON READY” device back then when it was released, became a decisive factor for me to purchase it; and as a matter of fact, the reason of why I have hesitated so many times on trying an iFi Pro iDSD Signature. I am glad to say that the NS is the beneficiary of all the expertise that iFi obtained while perfecting the integration of the ZS with ROON. The user experience is as good as in the ZS in the present day, plus the benefits of having a quicker response, a nice OLED screen, full MQA decoding and allowing ROON to be able to play PCM up to 768khz and DSD 512.


- HQplayer:


Things get even more interesting in this department. While the ZS was already a joy for HQplayer users, the NS responsiveness, internal DAC and higher sample rate capabilities, can make it especially sweet for upsampling enthusiasts. Below, I will dedicate a few lines to those who are not very familiar with HQplayer and its benefits. Some things may seem too basic for experienced HQplayer users; however it will also help me to explain the main differences between ZS and NS when interacting with this amazing software. It is worth to mention that there are excellent posts and articles by experts like Jussi Laako (Hqplayer creator) and reviewers like @GoldenOne, plus many experienced users who have a better understanding of the subject. They can explain some of the concepts mentioned here in a more technical way. It is not my intention to open the door to controversial topics; it seems that when it comes to Hi Res, super high sample rates and upsampling, there are very divided opinions. I want to remind you once again, that the following comments represent my subjective appreciation when playing with various options and configurations of this software when using the NS.

Does 705.6/768kHz sample rates really matter?

A few years ago, a site called “The Nordic Sound” used to have downloadable demos; a mix of well recorded tracks were available in multiple formats and sample rates. Those files, plus some albums accessible in red book and hi res, have been very handy when comparing them. When playing these files, there was no noticeable difference when listening to those recorded at 176.4/192kHz vs DXD or higher .

That’s not really the case when upsampling with HQplayer; higher sample rates than 176.4/192khz can represent a significant improvement to the sound and the experience itself. Some of those benefits are the following:


Convenience: When using filters with a fixed number of taps like "sinc-M" when playing PCM at 705.6/768kHZ, it takes less time for the music to start compared to lower sample rates. This applies regardless of the processing power of the Hardware. It can sound a bit counterintuitive, but the higher sample frequency seem to allow the software to carry out the total number of taps of the filter in a shorter time. Below, is the waiting period from pressing “play” to the moment when the music starts in my Mac mini i5(HQp)+NS:

Sinc-M: / 768kHz - 6.5 sec / 384kHz - 9 sec / 192kHz - 13sec /.


Number of taps: In other filters like sinc-L, the number of taps obtained depend on the conversion ratio. E.g.,

Sinc-L is 131070 taps X conversion ratio, that means:
44.1kHz to 352.8kHz= 1,048,560 taps vs 44.1kHz to 705.6kHz = 2,097,120 taps.


Dither: It was the most noticeable change when taking advantage of the capabilities of the NS. In the past, limited to 384kHz, no matter how many times I wanted to like the use of NS5 and LNS15 (considered some of the best HQplayer noise shapers in the forums), I ended up using the “basic” Gauss1 and TPDF, and sometimes NS9 as the only “acceptable” filter of the higher order group. As soon as I was able to use 705.6/768kHZ, NS5 and LNS15 worked much better. I don’t know exactly why, but to my ears, NS5 and mostly LNS15 noise shapers are super dependent to that higher sample rate factor, providing a sense of more space, better layering and separation of instruments. My best sounding combination at the moment is: LNS15/Poli-sinc-gauss-xla.

- Airplay: Airplay works exactly the same as on the ZS, except for a noticeable improvement in sync times when playing music and videos.

Part 2 coming soon...

This is fantastic, keep it coming!

While I am focused on basic functions, and general impressions for right now, we need to build a greater knowledge base on the specifics of the unit, especially in the HQPlayer department. I myself have admitted here many times, not only do I not understand this aspect, but I also don't believe I have heard the difference it can make. Posts like this give me more confidence to give HQP another shot in the near future. There is a lot that I can learn from posts of this nature, and from you in this area.

BTW, absolutely gorgeous setup!

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I think I found an undocumented feature in the Neo Stream. I was almost sure this wouldn't work but figured I'd give it a try...

I have it in AIO mode and I'm streaming HQPlayer NAA to the connected Chord Mojo2 over USB while also streaming regular Roon to it's internal DAC. I currently have the Neo Stream playing two different audio streams simultaneously!

This seems to work because HQPlayer actually sees the internal DAC and any USB connected DACs as separate interfaces and you can select which one to stream NAA to. The Neo doesn't really do much other than pass the audio packets from the HQPlayer to the USB DAC over NAA.

At the same time, the internal DAC remains unused and the streamer shows up in Roon and works as you would expect...

I could probably connect a third DAC to the unused USB port and stream to it independently with another instance of HQPlayer...maybe my next experiment.

This device is awesome!

That's an awesome find!

It reminds me of the early days of the ZS when we spoiled Roon users were able to use both outputs simultaneously because they could be considered two "Zones" from within Roon.

Cheers!!

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Those who are using Neo Stream with an external DAC, is the sound different when you use USB or I2S? one of the reasons why I could buy Neo Stream is to have I2S connector that I currently do not have in my Zen Stream, but it has to improve the sound, otherwise it is not worth it

Once upon a time I had a Gustard DAC and used this from the USB output of the ZS to get an idea of what I2S was all about, and also this product got me started in the world of DDCs, so to speak. I still have it and still use it today, do not let its meager price fool you, it may surprise you!

https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Inte...mzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

Cheers!

 

[dakchi]

Once upon a time I had a Gustard DAC and used this from the USB output of the ZS to get an idea of what I2S was all about, and also this product got me started in the world of DDCs, so to speak. I still have it and still use it today, do not let its meager price fool you, it may surprise you!

https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Interface-Coaxial-Optical-Audio/dp/B08HN3VSF8/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1EIJC3ZCCFW5T&keywords=douk+audio+u2+pro&qid=1666180219&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjI4IiwicXNhIjoiMC41MCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ==&sprefix=Douk+Audio+U,aps,86&sr=8-3&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

Cheers!

Thank you for the advice. Have you noticed any improvement in sound?

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Thank you for the advice. Have you noticed any improvement in sound?

That is why I sent it to you! Perhaps spending a few dollars now can help in your decision to spend way more down the road!

There is a thread here on Head-Fi about this item.

Cheers!!

 

[Rowan94]

The manual says it's SC-SC.
Based on the color of the connector, it should be SC-UPC / SC-UPC.

This looks like it's a typo. Thank you for flagging!

I suppose another fair question asked by those who already have a Zen Stream is whether the Neo Stream would be better than simply buying the Neo iDSD? This is supposed to be the same DAC (with standard balanced out) and costs USD 800, not 1300 (and has had very good reviews).

That's a fair question and the answer depends on the utilities you're after. The NEO Stream is a DAC/streamer product, whereas the NEO iDSD is a DAC/headphone amp package. Also, NEO Stream can send data via I2S, which makes it particularly appealing for those users who already own I2S-capable DACs.

 

[Mau10]

This is fantastic, keep it coming!

While I am focused on basic functions, and general impressions for right now, we need to build a greater knowledge base on the specifics of the unit, especially in the HQPlayer department. I myself have admitted here many times, not only do I not understand this aspect, but I also don't believe I have heard the difference it can make. Posts like this give me more confidence to give HQP another shot in the near future. There is a lot that I can learn from posts of this nature, and from you in this area.

BTW, absolutely gorgeous setup!

Beautiful setup and great write up! Looking forward to part 2.

Agreed - really nice setup @Mau10

Thank you guys for the support! this motivates me to continue in the same direction. For sure, a lot more about HQplayer+NS is coming in the "sound quality" and "Comparisons" parts of the review.
Many HQplayer benefits can be lost when not using a super clean USB or an I2S in most of the DACs. In contrast if you use a good coaxial or optical, the loss will be the sample rate limitations (except SRC DX+Chord). Thats why NS and ZS are particularly synergistic with HQp. Other topic that is going to be discussed in that part of the review, is the advantage of letting HQ player to perform the Delta-Sigma modulation... however, that can be worthless if your DAC is not capable of "direct DSD"... as you may notice, another strength of the NS.

We will be trusting your ears about I2S, at the moment I don't have any DACs with that input. I want to wait until the first DACs with the AKM AK4499EX chip are released to pull the trigger, or explore the R2R world some day.

By the way... when I was running tests with the previous Firmware, I2S logo were present when using the NS internal DAC. Perhaps the NS DAC is in fact, using that connection internally. Would be nice if iFi can give us some insight on that just for curiosity.

cheers!

Edit* multi quote

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

This looks like it's a typo. Thank you for flagging!

That's a fair question and the answer depends on the utilities you're after. The NEO Stream is a DAC/streamer product, whereas the NEO iDSD is a DAC/headphone amp package. Also, NEO Stream can send data via I2S, which makes it particularly appealing for those users who already own I2S-capable DACs.

Thank you for the answer. However, the question was: is the DAC in the Neo Stream any different from the DAC in the NEO iDSD?

 

[Mau10]

Thank you for the answer. However, the question was: is the DAC in the Neo Stream any different from the DAC in the NEO iDSD?

I would like to be able to answer your question, because I am curious about the same thing. But something that can give us a clue about it, is that to my ears there was a slight difference when using NS internal DAC with the Optibox VS the same internal DAC bypassing optibox, directly connected to the Ethernet. So that could mean that even if both products have the same DAC, with the NEO iDSD you may need to add to the chain, an extra ultra clean digital source to make it sound exactly the same. just my 2 cents...

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Qobuz, Mconnect, and the NEO Stream…Part 4


Streaming Qobuz as of this writing is best done with third-party software, as far as I know, this is the only way to obtain Hi-Rez from this service. This is because at this point, (and still) there is no Qobuz “Connect” service/app/program available. (Insert SMH Emoji)....Come on Qobuz, Really?

This in my opinion is sad. Qobuz is my favorite streaming service, and, after years of having and comparing the others, I felt they had the best sound, and a simple prospect, if Hi-Rez was available for a recording, Qobuz simply gave you the most common Hi-Rez format, FLAC for streaming. No special equipment or conversion is needed for the Highest quality listening.

With that being said I have used a very simple program in the past for Streaming Qobuz if no direct DAC Connection was available, This app is called Mconnect, and for this portion of the NEO review, this is what will be used.

Using AIO mode on the NEO is a simple process. Go into the “Play To” section/Tab of Mconnect, and Choose iFi or iFi Streamer, and you are done!

During my two days or so of straight Qobuz/Mconnect use I did encounter some issues, but none of these were sound quality related. The glitches directly related to the NEO were simply an album art issue on the display of the NEO. There were 5-10 times over those two days where either no album artwork was displayed on the NEO or Incorrect AA was on the screen.

Other than these minor glitches, and in all honesty, if I hadn’t been looking at it, I may not have known it had happened. I did not experience any losses of streaming or dropouts/skipping/glitching of music while I was using Qobuz w/ Mc. I do know that there have been these issues in the past with the Mconnect app from my time with the Zen Stream, and reports from others regarding it.

One note for me to have gapless playback with the NEO both gapless options in the Mconnect menu has to be selected, as I remember it I only needed one activated with the ZS, at least that is my recollection.

The sound from the NEO using this method was very, very good, and I continue to be very impressed with what the internal DAC is doing here. As a refresher, if you haven’t followed these posts from the beginning the setup is simple. RJ45 into the ethernet jack on the back, 4.4 mm Balanced out, to the XLR in of the Drop THX, and that’s all.

All in all, Qobuz is, in my opinion, one of, if not the best Hi-Rez options out there, it runs about 12 bucks a month, and the "Sound Quality" offering comes out on top of others without costing twice as much. To be honest, there is not a ton of things to discuss about Qobuz and Mconnect, or for that matter the NEO in this area. It is a very simple straightforward endeavor. The NEO sounded fantastic, the functionality was fine, and I enjoyed everything I listened to.

I remind everyone I am still in the "basics" part of my time with the NEO Stream, but we are nearing the end of this, and will move into External DACs, Higher end connections, and all the other goodies!


I have now come to my personal favorite option/feature of the NEO Stream and that is…

Up next, Roon Ready…



Cheers!!

 

[Kiats]

Qobuz, Mconnect, and the NEO Stream…Part 4


Streaming Qobuz as of this writing is best done with third-party software, as far as I know, this is the only way to obtain Hi-Rez from this service. This is because at this point, (and still) there is no Qobuz “Connect” service/app/program available. (Insert SMH Emoji)....Come on Qobuz, Really?



This in my opinion is sad. Qobuz is my favorite streaming service, and, after years of having and comparing the others, I felt they had the best sound, and a simple prospect, if Hi-Rez was available for a recording, Qobuz simply gave you the most common Hi-Rez format, FLAC for streaming. No special equipment or conversion is needed for the Highest quality listening.

With that being said I have used a very simple program in the past for Streaming Qobuz if no direct DAC Connection was available, This app is called Mconnect, and for this portion of the NEO review, this is what will be used.




Using AIO mode on the NEO is a simple process. Go into the “Play To” section/Tab of Mconnect, and Choose iFi or iFi Streamer, and you are done!

During my two days or so of straight Qobuz/Mconnect use I did encounter some issues, but none of these were sound quality related. The glitches directly related to the NEO were simply an album art issue on the display of the NEO. There were 5-10 times over those two days where either no album artwork was displayed on the NEO or Incorrect AA was on the screen.



Other than these minor glitches, and in all honesty, if I hadn’t been looking at it, I may not have known it had happened. I did not experience any losses of streaming or dropouts/skipping/glitching of music while I was using Qobuz w/ Mc. I do know that there have been these issues in the past with the Mconnect app from my time with the Zen Stream, and reports from others regarding it.

One note for me to have gapless playback with the NEO both gapless options in the Mconnect menu has to be selected, as I remember it I only needed one activated with the ZS, at least that is my recollection.



The sound from the NEO using this method was very, very good, and I continue to be very impressed with what the internal DAC is doing here. As a refresher, if you haven’t followed these posts from the beginning the setup is simple. RJ45 into the ethernet jack on the back, 4.4 mm Balanced out, to the XLR in of the Drop THX, and that’s all.



All in all, Qobuz is, in my opinion, one of, if not the best Hi-Rez options out there, it runs about 12 bucks a month, and the "Sound Quality" offering comes out on top of others without costing twice as much. To be honest, there is not a ton of things to discuss about Qobuz and Mconnect, or for that matter the NEO in this area. It is a very simple straightforward endeavor. The NEO sounded fantastic, the functionality was fine, and I enjoyed everything I listened to.

I remind everyone I am still in the "basics" part of my time with the NEO Stream, but we are nearing the end of this, and will move into External DACs, Higher end connections, and all the other goodies!


I have now come to my personal favorite option/feature of the NEO Stream and that is…

Up next, Roon Ready…



Cheers!!

Thanks for all the heavy lifting. Certainly helps the decision whether to pick one up

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Thanks for all the heavy lifting. Certainly helps the decision whether to pick one up

Thank you! Having fun doing it for sure!!

Cheers!!

 

[JjB067]

Got my Neo Stream back from iFi Audio today after two weeks . Basically they cannot replicate the random reboot issues that caused me grief. So they say the device is working fine and updated the software version to v2.15.17 and sent it back to me. Currently the Neo Stream is playing well with no issues to report. As far as I am concerned, the device is on probation and my confidence is somewhat low. I will use it over the next week and see what transpires, hopefully there will be no serious concerns to report.

I posted this accidentally in the Zen Stream thread on this forum, thanks to Mr BubbaHyde for alerting me to my mistake !