[Melbergall]

Maybe you are getting higher than 192 because the content is not MQA and then, if you are using the filter that upscales, what you get out of NEO is upscaled to 384.
If you get MQA, then it remains at the same bitrate, so maybe 192.

There is content on tidal MQA higher than 192, but you have to search for it.
Anyways, the difference at this point is very hard to perceive, maybe impossible even.

Regarding what app sounds better.. I don't know. For each "better" might be something different as it is a matter of taste in the end.
It's all about enjoying the music.

Thx for the clarity on the bitrates. And I agree with you on all of the above -- well said. As for me, given the better usability of Tidal's mobile app and the fact that their algorithm seems to "get me" better than Qobuz, I'm sticking with the former -- but open to Qobuz if/when they get their app act together! Happy listening --

 

[H20Fidelity]

Still really enjoying NEO, its not often I feel satisfied performance / money wise these days with audio products, but NEO has done that for me. I think it sounds great with HD800S and original HD800, particularly from the balanced output. I've owned RME-ADI-2 twice in the past, while it's nice, I never felt the same satisfaction using it with those headphones and sold it both times.

I'm not the hugest fan of NEO's retro design but I do like the volume wheel, I even told a friend on facebook it was a 'fancy VHS player' and they believed me.


Soundwise and simplicity though I really dig it.

 

[Maxpain]

Hello people....would be nice to have your opinion...I have an old idsd micro silver....and I want to use my hd 650 with a portable dac amp so I can listen to them in my balcony for example...

would it be worth it to buy the hip dac or it wouldn't offer any advantage over the idsd? I can't buy gryphon or diablo they are way out of budget..

 

[iFi audio]

I'm not the hugest fan of NEO's retro design but I do like the volume wheel, I even told a friend on facebook it was a 'fancy VHS player' and they believed me.

That's a very sweet setup you got there and that 'VHS' analogy makes sense given NEO iDSD's look

Hello people....would be nice to have your opinion...I have an old idsd micro silver....and I want to use my hd 650 with a portable dac amp so I can listen to them in my balcony for example...

would it be worth it to buy the hip dac or it wouldn't offer any advantage over the idsd? I can't buy gryphon or diablo they are way out of budget..

hip-dac will work as far as its power output goes, so it wouldn't hurt to try it out. The odds are that you'll like it as a small DAC/amp package with your cans

 

[wein07]

Anyone tried the Neo idsd with Sennheiser 560S?

 

[cleg]

My video about NEO iDSD and bonus accessories that came in the bundle

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Anyone tried the Neo idsd with Sennheiser 560S?

I'm sure some folks have that pairing around these parts!

My video about NEO iDSD and bonus accessories that came in the bundle

Thanks for doing this! Great breakdown!

 

[iFi audio]

My video about NEO iDSD and bonus accessories that came in the bundle

Awesome work, thanks a lot!

 

[dericchan1]

Joined: 03 Sep 2016 16:45 Posts: 1498 Location: Richmond Hill, ON, CA

Thought I would share this recent YouTube review of the Neo idsd vs the Denafrips Aries ii by the folks at Audioexcellence in Toronto, Canada A very interesting video indeed

 

[whitedragem]

I sold my Burson dac/amp wanting a change for HD800S, I demoed NEO and really liked it, I bought one.

Its able to drive them single ended quite easily but I picked up a balanced cable and use that now.

Pretty exceptional driving power for a 5v power supply when running balanced.

When I compared the ifi Diablo to an HDVD800 (sennheiser amp), I spent hours and hours comparing the two, my take away was they were the two closest sound signature amps in my life of comparing amps.. (of course I had the enjoyment of using the Diablos included XLR cable into the back of the HDVD800)
When comparing the HDVD800 vs a Burson Conductor, the HDVD800 renders bass notes clearer and with more impact when gaming, say, "Hunt:showdown" (awesome internal sound renderer for 'headphone surround'), at a middle distance on out, the advantage went to the HDVD800.

The fact that the Diablo (the portable version of the Neo, arguably) clearly has the performance equality to the HDVD800 (an exceptional amp if it can hold its own against the top of the line Burson), and a better DAC than both those parts (but fair given the few years in history between each of these components releases); the Neo/iFi amp section in these price point parts is 'outstanding value'.

To my knowledge the biggest disadvantages of the Diablo (vs the Neo) are the cut down in size jacks (eg to use COAX I need use an adaptor cable, to feed in Toslink, I need use an adaptor cable, to feed out to a regular stereo I have to feed the XLRs into another unit that can do channel matching (like a Grace Design m903) etc).
The desktop component, the Neo, makes for a much better use for those that do not need the portability.

And whilst users here might not fully appreciate the adaptors included with the 'performance edition Neo', the amount of times I would have bought that iFi SPDIF purifier had it been in store at my local head-fi retail outlet is ridiculous.
iFi tech (trickle down stuff from mega budget AMR stuff) is fantastic value for money.
The Diablo cannot do GTO on the SPDIF input, to the best of my understanding, and is one of a few niggles that I have always hoped would come to the Diablo..(firmware updates perhaps)..
Internally the way the XMOS controller handles digital inputs, might not allow this..
So the Neo, from a usability point of view is definitely the part to buy into..
It has all the ins and outs that a part could want.. and basic stuff like being able to use nice RCA/'phono' plugs that I have lying around...
Per iFi incredible support ethics, the fact that existing parts get new firmware updates and features (eg Sony would seldom do that if it meant they could sell 'a new unit') the company just delivers on the fronts that matter to consumers.

It is strange when we look at the last few pages of this forum how a simple piece of advertising literature can get us caught up/fearful/worried about 'fair value' and whether we will get something we hoped to do so.. and with the exception of iFi forum reps not being clued into all internal firmwares coming out and which products get them, literally being one step behind us 'eager consumers' who are willing to test unofficial firmwares from 'other iFi products'; the nature of iFi always sharing the best software (firmware) they have to previous models is 'a thing' (and a reason to support a pro consumer/'pro 'end user' company.

If we recognise that having bitperfect AND GTO and easy ability to switch up the settings etc,. this is a top of the line DAC and owns this market segment.
When comparing to things like a Denafrips (an incredible home hifi DAC), the lack of a lot of options on the Denafrips (And nightmare to change filters etc) starts to show.. what we invest in with the Neo (at a significant price difference to parts we are putting it against, themselves class leading and 'exceptional value for money' against parts many times the cost), the fact that the parts can hold a compete at all is incredible...

As someone who recognises that the GTO filter alone is a reason to have an iFi part in a system, and wanting the cleanest, most user friendly iFi part that money can buy..
iFi are a refreshing 'glass of water' in a market filled with sharks and sometimes 'snake oil'.

Just in the time I used a Diablo, the added features through firmware updates, like Playstation 5 console support, were always gifts to receive..
And for users who buy a DAC, a year of its lifetime, perhaps waiting for a new featured firmware, when considering the total life of the product.
Heck I am happy using 10 year old DACs, and I know iFi support products well beyond their warranty period. (most of the big consumer electronics companies DO NOT)

Congrats iFi, nice refresh on the Neo to keep a modified price point (everyone knows how hard the commercial market must be based on the last few years), and giving tech toys that not everyone might know about, but that will certainly improve sound on devices of this calibre when fed into higher tiered audio setups.
(the iFi parts truly do 'punch above their price point' with respect to their performance and output quality (and features))

As someone who has bought multiple iFi accessories, such as USB filters and AC purifiers, and loves the iPower power packs etc.. opening iFi product boxes always makes me smile when I see that nice smiley face....

(Whitedragem: deleted quote,.. wrong forum, not on topic, and I'm not good enough with the editing toolz to remove this properly-

 

[H20Fidelity]

I had to send my NEO back because there was a faint electrical whistling noise using low impedance IEMs, the store tested their demo unit which had the same problem, and also their suppliers units in Australia tested theirs with it. We couldn't come to resolution in a suitable timeframe, so I ended up getting store credit. It was fine with my HD800S but when it made the noise its not complete. I had seen reports about it online during the return and some people got replacements that didn't do it.

Its funny the member above me mentions the HDV800, that's what I'm using with my original HD800 now.

 

[iFi audio]

Joined: 03 Sep 2016 16:45 Posts: 1498 Location: Richmond Hill, ON, CA

Thought I would share this recent YouTube review of the Neo idsd vs the Denafrips Aries ii by the folks at Audioexcellence in Toronto, Canada A very interesting video indeed

It sure is, thanks!

 

[dericchan1]

It sure is, thanks!

The answer should be “It sure IS NOT” as the title was asking is the Denafrips Aries ii the best budget dac under $1,000, then they went on to compare it with the NEO and they like the NEO better!! Cheers!!!

 

[whitedragem]

I can be ‘a little slow’ on information uptake sometimes..
It took me awhile to get around to processing that video; but a few take aways from it have prompted me to post a subjective take on DAC reviewing (certainly around this pricepoint)

Elephants in the room; the team didn’t have a familiar reference system they were playing back on -it would seem they were new(ish) to auditioning those speakers, as an example.
I dismiss this in part due to ‘both DACs’ (the Ares II and the iFi Neo) were compared, ideally all other variables being equal (the Neo might not have had access to the digital cable worth significantly more than the DACs being auditioned..assuming they were setup for ‘fast A/B’ switching..

When they ‘round robin‘ed the discussion, and included the two Alex’s (off camera) who both admitted ‘they didn’t know what to audition for’,.. made me realise WE NEED TO DISCUSS THIS.
To confirm- I am not ‘pulling apart their video/review’ (AT ALL!- it was honest and a great informal way to, arguably, give some quick and useful feedback); it their feedback is uesful.. (“perceived Dynamics!!”)

But it is interesting to consider what they were experiencing.
As someone who has been flipping, ‘on the fly’ between an iFi DAC and ‘other’ DACs (in a ‘very familiar system’)..
I came across some interesting findings…
And getting back to the aforementioned “didn’t know what we were looking for”; some tracks /‘parts of tracks’ when switching between three DACs in my ’den setup’.. THERE WAS CLOSE TO ZERO DIFFERENCE that it would take a lot more media to confirm the subtle cues and minor differences..

But, heres the thing: (and this is a BIG ‘BUT’) <hey- eyes ‘up here’>
When there was differences between the DACs the sound difference playing through the iFi (Diablo) DAC was MASSIVE.
Sure it took certain recordings, and there was nothing in common in terms of music genre or recording levels, or ‘quality’ of these recordings and this easily observable experience could come from the most budget CD player OR a high end DAP, there wasn’t a clear method to the madness.

To be clear; I wasn’t in GTO filter mode, I was feeding COAX and TOSLINK to respective DACs, and giving the better digital cable and line level interconnects to ‘the non iFi part’ and the iFi DAC was sounding like a part MANY MANY times the price point of the comparison pieces…

What was the difference (“get on with it” I can only imagine you shouting.. ‘less rambling’!!)

When the iFi part showed a difference, it just seriously ‘popped’ the front of the stage; it extended much wider, was much more ‘in the room’ (VS the common sound of all the DACs as sounding recessed in space ‘behind the speakers’)..
Be it folk or orchestral or rock and blues or electronica (etc), it just sounded true life like.. like a veil was lifted, like the volume just jumped up by approx 1/3rd and gave ‘actual life’ to the music playing.
It was the biggest difference I have heard when comparing DACs (ever) in my lifetime.

Now to qualify that last sentence ‘the iFi DAC was the most different sounding DAC I have heard when comparing DACs”..
When I first got the Diablo I compared it exhaustively against the DAC it had to dethrone. There ”wasn’t a lot in it”; it took weeks of A/B‘ing, and ‘living with it’ (the DAC it was up against was from a significantly higher pricepoint), and every time, in blind A/B testing, for weeks, every family member would pick the Diablo as the DAC of choice (and ’yes’ I know how to level match etc)(and how could ‘I’ be blindtesting when I set it up.. - I was using a preamp with assignable inputs and could delete all inputs but two so that hitting source up and down would switch between them, but not give an indication as to which we were using (without me walking across the room and checking); I could simply hit the source select button a tonne of times/forget what was selected last, and just keep switching (calling one ‘A’ and the other ‘B’ and then when coming to a conclusion on any given listening test/‘typically an album’, walking over and finding out ‘which one was the winner’; which I would then tally on some paper).. The takeaway when comparing two ‘different price point DACs‘ that had nearly the same sound, was that the couple of wins that the ‘other DAC’ got, were ‘really poor recordings’ or ‘it homogenised sound that shouldn’t have been played back so nicely’ (it was awkward music that the ‘less nice’ version was actually the ‘more honest playback’)- there was only a couple of wins in favour of the 2.5x the price point DAC, and about twenty plus in favour to the Diablo, clearly and easily, even to ‘untrained ears’.

In the present setup, having moved on the ‘more expensive DAC’ (the Diablo paid for itself), and having to compare against the ‘older DACs in the house’; the difference was nowhere near as close.. there was no need for such critical comparisons.. it could be picked from rooms away.. the partner and child both picked the iFi DAC (from afar even)- I have never had such obvious DAC differences.. (okay I could get an ‘old’ 1980’s DAC out and compare it against decent price point DACs built beyond 2012… but ‘lets not’ (and say we did!).

Now heres the rub’
When every other part sounds the same and ‘one’ sounds different; it made me want to get a conductor friend around for a visit and qualify to me what the technicalities they could hear on ‘certain instruments’ in terms of ‘is the obviously different DAC doing something wrong’.
It was so night and day different that the brain started to fight it..
Again, only on some recordings and ‘some parts of recordings’ , but it was like going from AM radio to a nice vinyl setup.. the extra dynamics and ‘pop’ and dimension and liquidity (fluid/naturalness) was EPIC.
If you had told me the different sound was a $30,000k device I‘d go “that makes sense”.
If I was told it was a $5k device- well, I’d now be saving up for a $5k DAC..
The problem is the parts it was up against were not poor by any means.. in fact one even had similar family DAC chips (PCM1798s) to the iFi chips, so ‘what was it’
_________________________________________________________^^^^^^^
end of observation
_________________________________________________________>>>>>>>
start of analysis

My head has always loved the science behind how iFi ‘do what they do’ with the venerable Burr Brown evolved (now owned by Texas Instruments) parts..
They get much better than the ‘white sheet’ specs for the old DAC chips (made when DAC chips were built for music, and not so much ‘format wars and ‘spec sheet bragging rights’); they pay for designs from industry masters, who know these chips and know how to build circuits to get the very best from them.. (if you have ever read a white doc for a DAC chip, it should cover all sorts of info in terms of board placement and layout, and some give examples of which pins to use for certain designs, and generally leave the ‘power of imagination’ of the worlds audio engineers to ‘come up with implementations…
iFi squeeze a huge amount more performance from the Delta/Sigma PCM1793 chips, sure- some is from the dual differential layout (using two and letting these multichannel chips handle a channel each(as well as different pathways for DSD vs PCM) - I should be careful here saying this as I am not sure if the Neo is a dual DAC chip design.. (I haven’t studied the board layout or interpreted/read ‘much about it’), but what they do that is amazing is that the top 6 bit is done in a psuedo ladder processing method.. kind of like the best of delta/sigma and the best of ‘multibit’ (where it matters); from what I have read, the ‘top six bits’ are handled differently..
So what is the ‘top six bits’? I feel I may have interpreted this wrong in the past.. is the top six bits by ‘volume’ hence all frequencies at the top of the volume range, or is the top six bits by frequency, up in the critical range of listening that humans are most sensitive too?
Either/or (!/?) it doesn’t matter- the end result is a DAC performance that outputs vastly better than the individual pieces; the ‘sum of its parts’ is OUTSTANDING DAC sound!!

AS I said, if someone told me that the ‘different DAC’ cost vastly more, I’d believe them..
It sounded soooooo musical..
And it is this comment I wish to share regarding that review video, where ‘true’ “only one reviewer heard massive differences in terms of dynamics and soundstage/placement etc (I can concur this is ‘A THING’)

They weren’t even talking about GTO filter (my reason to want an iFi DAC as I listen exclusively, almost, to redbook audio (16bit @ 44khz))..
the fact of the matter is, when the iFi DACs shine (ie all DACs sound the same until ‘they don’t’), they shine so well that I cannot fathom the true price point required to buy a substantial upgrade and not just waste money on a sidegrade.

Seeing other reviewers ‘gobsmaked’ by the iFi trickery/‘house sound’, especially given the budget price points, is the fundamental feedback that has me leaving 6x - 21x ‘the physical weight‘
products that might not even offer ‘extra features’.. by price point, parts costing multiple times that of a new iFi ‘budget fi’ part, and are so thoroughly trounced in very obvious ways.

It would be worrying to me if the iFi was loaned to me and I was hoping the other parts were its equal.
The fact that I can have buyers satisfaction at the sound quality onhand..
all I can really say is ‘congratulations iFi’ for ourstanding value for money..

Again.. all DAC sound the same until that moment that shows one up, and they clearly do not sound the same…
It was a little less that half the moments of switching that had the iFi DAC sound leagues (/‘tiers’) better.. for all the rest of the time the iFi DAC sounded mostly identical to the other much larger/much more costlier DESKTOP DACs.. (sure there was a couple of years age between a few of them/yet ‘the Grace m903’ was equal in sound to the newer and heavier home DACs costing much much more..)

__________________The point I am trying to raise is that comparing DACs can be a tricky process, and mostly they all sound ‘very much the same’, unless one spends vast price point differences, this is generally a fact.. but when a cheap part so obviously outperforms in OBVIOUS ways, well- it becomes a ‘no brainer’.
Having specific test tracks can help this…
If anyone wants to take this discussion further; I might go back to the testing setup and take note of which moments in ‘which songs’ and recordings were the spots where the iFi DAC clearly pulled away from the pack..

For anyone else just wanting to enjoy a thread (and the unregistered readers),.. ‘as you were’

 

[dericchan1]

Thanks for your comments, it’s quite lengthy but definitely makes an interesting read.

Just a little bit of the background of these guys at Audio Excellence from Canada. They are a brick and mortar store that’s been selling ultra high end audio gear for the past 35 years. Adrian and Vilik have been in the high end business for a long long time and they are true music lovers!!! I am not surprised they know exactly what to look for when listening to different dacs or streamers and be able to tell even the most subtle differences rather quickly. (They’ve been selling MSB dacs for many years) They have just recently decided to bring in some more affordable audio gear in an attempt to help bring in some young blood to the hobby hence brought the ifi and the bluesound along with a few other brands that present great value and quality to their product line up. This affordable segment of their business only accounts for a very small percentage of their overall profit they simply have a big heart to process to music lovers on a budget. They have also posted an earlier video comparing between the zen stream and the node (both streamers they carry at the store) and pointed out the zen stream came out as clear winner in terms of sound quality but the blueos interface was better

They obviously know their gear hence the use of their Hegel integrated for the testing and review.

I don’t know how the older guy could not hear any differences between the denafrips r2r dac and the neo, as the sound character are really quite different based on my own trial, but the other two Alex’s behind the camera were simply teenage helpers at the store.

Deric