iFi Audio Nano iDSD discussion + impression
May 20, 2015 at 10:30 PM Post #1,396 of 2,063
   
Hi,
 
All iFi units - nano iDSD, micro iDSD and iTube and iCAN (nano+micro) do not use a digital volume control and use a stepped attenuator or analogue volume control.
 
So if used at ~9 o clock, there is imbalance between channels.
 
Ideally, run at 12 to 3 o clock.
 
Digital volume controls truncate the bits and also do not keep DSD bit-perfect.

Yes. 
 
I am aware of your usage of analog volume control.
 
I wasn't referring to unbalance between channels. 
 
I am talking about rate of volume change.
 
Past 9 o clock, the volume change is very constant except before 9 o clock, the volume change is very sudden. (The volume drops in sudden.)
 
May 21, 2015 at 12:19 AM Post #1,397 of 2,063
  Yes. 
 
I am aware of your usage of analog volume control.
 
I wasn't referring to unbalance between channels. 
 
I am talking about rate of volume change.
 
Past 9 o clock, the volume change is very constant except before 9 o clock, the volume change is very sudden. (The volume drops in sudden.)

 
I think you concern is whether the volume control should be perfectly linear or not - and it isn't. Hardly any analog volume control is linear.
 
This should be what the volume control looks like on nano iDSD, or at least it should be pretty close:
 

 
As you can see, the rate of change is steeper on the lower range than the higher range.
 
May 21, 2015 at 12:54 AM Post #1,398 of 2,063
   
I think you concern is whether the volume control should be perfectly linear or not - and it isn't. Hardly any analog volume control is linear.
 
This should be what the volume control looks like on nano iDSD, or at least it should be pretty close:
 

 
As you can see, the rate of change is steeper on the lower range than the higher range.

Wow Thanks for the explanation.
 
I am aware of the fact that analog volume control is not perfectly linear but on Nano iDSD it seemed to be too steep in the lower volume.
 
The graph explains :wink:
 
I ordered Micro iCAN and I just hope it won't be this bad.
 
May 21, 2015 at 4:13 AM Post #1,399 of 2,063
  Wow Thanks for the explanation.
 
I am aware of the fact that analog volume control is not perfectly linear but on Nano iDSD it seemed to be too steep in the lower volume.
 
The graph explains :wink:
 
I ordered Micro iCAN and I just hope it won't be this bad.

 
Hi,
 
A usable volume control range of 60dB (that is a 1:1000 Ratio) is commonly more than sufficient to achieve good control over the volume levels. To be witty, it covers the loudness range between extremely loud factory or rock concerts to something slightly above a quiet whisper. So it should be fine in pactice. Many traditional analogue potentimeters have even less usable adjustment range.
 
If the maximum volume is (say) 105dB peak with an 85dB average sound level (this is quite loud) attenuating by 60dB means that  the sound level of the music would be around 25dB, or within the region of the noise of a quiet PC Fan or the background noise of a very quiet room.
 
The problem is that many IEM's and other headphones these days seem to be in a loudness race, with some headphones approaching 120dB/mW output.
 
If we take an example of a IEM from Brand X with Model Y we find that Model Y has 119dB/1mW efficiency and 36 Ohm Impedance. The iDSD nano outputs 1.7V with the volume control at maximum and with this IEM this equals 138dB (yes, this is totally insane)! By comparison a Chainsaw closeup is usually considered equal to 100dB, meaning this IEM with the iDSD nano volume control all the way up will be 100 times as loud as a chainsaw close up.
 
Worse, if we turn the volume down by 60dB, we are left with around 78dB peak levels and if the program material is modern, heavily compressed music the actual average at the minimum possible voolume setting of the iDSD will be around 68dB, which is already quite loud.
 
There is a simple solution (other than changing the headphones), namely adding an iEMatch attenuator in line with your headphone. They are available in 12dB and 24dB.
 
In the case of the previous 138dB IEM, using a 24dB attenuator reduces the maximum (peak) SPL to a still loud but sensible 114dB, which with well recorded high dynamic range music (20dB crest factor) means an average music level of 94dB (quite loud) and for modern heavily compressed music a level of around 104dB, which is similar to the noise levels in the cabin at takeoff for some of the louder Passenger Jets (getting dangerous here if played long term at this level).
 
Equally, with maximum attenuation of the volume control the lowest output would be around 44dB for heavily compressed music, which is pretty quiet, similar to a normally quiet office or living room. So locate the ideal attenuator, would be our recommendation.
 
Conclusion
No audio component manufacturer can halt the gradual "loudness race to the top." Given the spectrum between IEMs and headphones, we can all only aim for somewhere in the middle. If a specific headphone or IEM needs to be dialled in, then we recommend an attenuator.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/people/IFi-audio/61558986775162/ https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
May 21, 2015 at 4:43 AM Post #1,400 of 2,063
Where can I buy the attenuators in Germany? I use the nano wth I with my fidelio x2 and with my tablet it's almost to loud at 9/10 o'clock.
some apps are really quite and have to turn up the volume to nearly 100% and the next song is way to loud..
 
May 21, 2015 at 5:19 AM Post #1,401 of 2,063
Where can I buy the attenuators in Germany? I use the nano wth I with my fidelio x2 and with my tablet it's almost to loud at 9/10 o'clock.
some apps are really quite and have to turn up the volume to nearly 100% and the next song is way to loud..

 
Hi,
 
We'll answer each one individually.
 
- If an app is quiet, it is usually because the App has the volume turned down in the Android/iOS Sound settings. It must be maxed out to 100%.
 
- Contact iFi dealers....or iFi: Germany, WOD. There is a wait.
 
Cheers
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/people/IFi-audio/61558986775162/ https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
May 21, 2015 at 6:11 AM Post #1,402 of 2,063
The volume is always maxed out but spotify is still quieter than the other apps, maybe I should clear cache and appdata.
Ok I try to connect wod, thanks for the great and fast support.
 
May 21, 2015 at 6:31 AM Post #1,403 of 2,063
   
Hi,
 
A usable volume control range of 60dB (that is a 1:1000 Ratio) is commonly more than sufficient to achieve good control over the volume levels. To be witty, it covers the loudness range between extremely loud factory or rock concerts to something slightly above a quiet whisper. So it should be fine in pactice. Many traditional analogue potentimeters have even less usable adjustment range.
 
If the maximum volume is (say) 105dB peak with an 85dB average sound level (this is quite loud) attenuating by 60dB means that  the sound level of the music would be around 25dB, or within the region of the noise of a quiet PC Fan or the background noise of a very quiet room.
 
The problem is that many IEM's and other headphones these days seem to be in a loudness race, with some headphones approaching 120dB/mW output.
 
If we take an example of a IEM from Brand X with Model Y we find that Model Y has 119dB/1mW efficiency and 36 Ohm Impedance. The iDSD nano outputs 1.7V with the volume control at maximum and with this IEM this equals 138dB (yes, this is totally insane)! By comparison a Chainsaw closeup is usually considered equal to 100dB, meaning this IEM with the iDSD nano volume control all the way up will be 100 times as loud as a chainsaw close up.
 
Worse, if we turn the volume down by 60dB, we are left with around 78dB peak levels and if the program material is modern, heavily compressed music the actual average at the minimum possible voolume setting of the iDSD will be around 68dB, which is already quite loud.
 
There is a simple solution (other than changing the headphones), namely adding an iEMatch attenuator in line with your headphone. They are available in 12dB and 24dB.
 
In the case of the previous 138dB IEM, using a 24dB attenuator reduces the maximum (peak) SPL to a still loud but sensible 114dB, which with well recorded high dynamic range music (20dB crest factor) means an average music level of 94dB (quite loud) and for modern heavily compressed music a level of around 104dB, which is similar to the noise levels in the cabin at takeoff for some of the louder Passenger Jets (getting dangerous here if played long term at this level).
 
Equally, with maximum attenuation of the volume control the lowest output would be around 44dB for heavily compressed music, which is pretty quiet, similar to a normally quiet office or living room. So locate the ideal attenuator, would be our recommendation.
 
Conclusion
No audio component manufacturer can halt the gradual "loudness race to the top." Given the spectrum between IEMs and headphones, we can all only aim for somewhere in the middle. If a specific headphone or IEM needs to be dialled in, then we recommend an attenuator.

Wow.
 
Very detailed explanation is always welcome.
 
Thank you for the help!
 
I was hearing about your news of attenuator and its name contest as well. 
 
TBH, I really love companies that has a lot of interaction with their customers. 
 
All of my concern regarding to rate of volume change will be solved as soon as I receive my iCAN. (Since I max the volume on Nano iDSD in order to make it line out.
 
And I assume that even if same thing happens with iCAN, I would be able to control the gain via gain switch. 
 
Thanks again ifi!
 
May 21, 2015 at 8:14 AM Post #1,404 of 2,063
Wow Thanks for the explanation.

I am aware of the fact that analog volume control is not perfectly linear but on Nano iDSD it seemed to be too steep in the lower volume.

The graph explains :wink:

I ordered Micro iCAN and I just hope it won't be this bad.

Why not the iFi micro iDSD? It has built-in "attenuators".
 
May 21, 2015 at 8:33 AM Post #1,405 of 2,063
Why not the iFi micro iDSD? It has built-in "attenuators".

 
Hi,
 
Correct.
 
This is the nano iDSD thread - hence the mention of the iFi attenuators.
 
For the micro iDSD - this is irrelevant as the iEMatch means this is not needed.
 
Similar situation for the Retro Stereo 50 because the 3.5mm input has been configured for IEMs whilst the 6.3mm input has been configured for headphones.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/people/IFi-audio/61558986775162/ https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
May 22, 2015 at 3:50 AM Post #1,406 of 2,063
Why not the iFi micro iDSD? It has built-in "attenuators".

Ah, I would have loved to get one but I am high school student soon to be graduated so can't really throw my money on those 'yet'. 
 
It makes me sad but Nano iDSD is well worth over what I paid for.
 
 
   
Hi,
 
Correct.
 
This is the nano iDSD thread - hence the mention of the iFi attenuators.
 
For the micro iDSD - this is irrelevant as the iEMatch means this is not needed.
 
Similar situation for the Retro Stereo 50 because the 3.5mm input has been configured for IEMs whilst the 6.3mm input has been configured for headphones.

YES. 
 
I am indeed holding myself on upgrading my speaker set until I have enough for Retro Stereo. 
 
They are gorgeous. ( Not to mention their sound and functions.)
 
I really wished that they had ability to run sub woofer tho.
 
May 22, 2015 at 5:40 AM Post #1,407 of 2,063
Ah, I would have loved to get one but I am high school student soon to be graduated so can't really throw my money on those 'yet'. 

It makes me sad but Nano iDSD is well worth over what I paid for.


YES. 

I am indeed holding myself on upgrading my speaker set until I have enough for Retro Stereo. 

They are gorgeous. ( Not to mention their sound and functions.)

I really wished that they had ability to run sub woofer tho.

Buy a sub where you can run the speaker outs of the amp to the sub and run speaker out of the sub to speakers.
 
May 22, 2015 at 8:48 AM Post #1,408 of 2,063
For iCLUB members ONLY - please open a new support ticket and ask your concierge for the v4.08 Beta firmware.

 
 
 

BETA: v4.08 Firmware upgrade

 
User Notes:
This is the first unified version of firmware for nano iDSD, micro iDSD and Retro ONLY.
NOT to be uploaded to the micro iLink, micro iDAC, nor AMR DP-777!

 
Improvements
• Further improvement sfor DoP playback which exhibits clicks/pops during track changes
• Various optimisations regarding clock distribution.
• Various optimisations regarding muting circuitry.
• Improved compatibility with Mac OS X.
 
Bug fixes
• Fixed various small bugs.
 
 
Note to others, once this has been confirmed as all a-okay, we will release this into the wild for everyone to enjoy.
 
We thank you for your patience but as you can see, we do not issue firmware updates lightly because they need to undergo rigorous testing.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/people/IFi-audio/61558986775162/ https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
May 23, 2015 at 7:12 AM Post #1,410 of 2,063


No XBASS there.



Nor there.



Hmmm. None there either.



None again.

I am forced to conclude that the nano iDSD doesn't have XBASS :cool:
 

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