[Guitarjon]

Hi,

I just got an iDefender+ for my music home studio setup. I use my Fractal Audio Axe Fx III as my main USB audio interface and a brand new W10 PC. There is noise coming through the USB to the soundcard and I had temporarily elliminated that by cutting off the ground off the USB cable. This indeed solved the problem. The iDefender+ seems like a much better solution. It works indeed, albeit it only completely elliminates the noise with a regular old 5v adapter. I tried another adapter, and that didn't work. Without the adapter the noise is less, but not gone.

The developer of Fractal Audio made a few statements on removing the ground off the USB to the interface and I'm curious how seriously I should take these statements or if these even apply with the iDefender+. This is what he said:

While the 5V may not be used by the device for power it's still necessary. The peripheral uses the 5V as a detect. 5V is connected to the peripheral's Vbus pin which tells the peripheral that a host is connected. Disconnecting the ground is dangerous. While it can solve noise due to a ground loop it increases the risk of an overvoltage on the Vbus and data pins which can damage the USB controllers (this is why the spec calls for ground at both ends). The correct way to solve a USB ground loop is to make sure the peripheral and PC are plugged into the same power strip. Keep all power cables bundled close together as possible.

Obviously his last suggestion didn't work for me, that's why I think the iDefender is my only option....

I'm looking forward to your reply.

 

[iFi audio]

Hi,

I just got an iDefender+ for my music home studio setup. I use my Fractal Audio Axe Fx III as my main USB audio interface and a brand new W10 PC. There is noise coming through the USB to the soundcard and I had temporarily elliminated that by cutting off the ground off the USB cable. This indeed solved the problem. The iDefender+ seems like a much better solution. It works indeed, albeit it only completely elliminates the noise with a regular old 5v adapter. I tried another adapter, and that didn't work. Without the adapter the noise is less, but not gone.

The developer of Fractal Audio made a few statements on removing the ground off the USB to the interface and I'm curious how seriously I should take these statements or if these even apply with the iDefender+. This is what he said:

While the 5V may not be used by the device for power it's still necessary. The peripheral uses the 5V as a detect. 5V is connected to the peripheral's Vbus pin which tells the peripheral that a host is connected. Disconnecting the ground is dangerous. While it can solve noise due to a ground loop it increases the risk of an overvoltage on the Vbus and data pins which can damage the USB controllers (this is why the spec calls for ground at both ends). The correct way to solve a USB ground loop is to make sure the peripheral and PC are plugged into the same power strip. Keep all power cables bundled close together as possible.

Obviously his last suggestion didn't work for me, that's why I think the iDefender is my only option....

I'm looking forward to your reply.

Thanks for your feedback. I gather from it that iDefender+ with an external 5V PSU works for you? Or do you have any specific doubts about using these products together?

 

[Guitarjon]

Thanks for your feedback. I gather from it that iDefender+ with an external 5V PSU works for you? Or do you have any specific doubts about using these products together?

Well, yes it works but I have concerns about possibly damaging my gear. As you can read in my previous post the developer of my soundcard device stated that there are risks associated with disconnecting the ground on the USB. I just want to make sure I won't damage anything. Can you comment on that? Or does the iDefender+ not simply cut off the ground?

 

[Lewiscube]

Hello, I've returned with sadly another issue.

Its closely related to :
"Bought the iDefender+ (their latest version).The buzz and static-like noise that waxed and waned with GPU/CPU usage disappeared immediately.

But after removing this layer of noise, I can hear ~1khz background high-pitched whining when I start play music with Foobar or play videos (with volume turned to zero). This is much softer than those buzz and cracking static, but it is becoming obvious now that the buzzing is gone."

Mines is more of a 10Khz whine, it sounds exactly like tinnitus and its coming from the tweeters in my speakers (so it has to be 5Khz or above).
Such a sound is triggered precisely as this user has said :when I start play music with [music player] or play videos (with volume turned to zero)

I mentioned earlier I bought the iDefender+ with the iPower 2.

This issue only exists on my pc, not my iPad pro... Typical computer issues..

1. Can I buy the iSilencer+ and set up as follows: Pc usb > iSilencer+ > iDefender+ > usb/dac amp > active speakers
Keeping in mind I want to use the iSilencer and iDefender from the same usb port such that they work together to hopefully reduce this *identical to tinnitus* sound coming from my speakers tweeters?
I am hoping the iSilencer+ is the solution so please let me know.

2. Edit: another thing to mention would be that my Fiio k3 dac/amp , under its specifications list found here : https://www.fiio.com/k3s_parameters
states under "power supply parameters" that "DC5V 500mA (recommended)" is the reccomended amperage for such a device. Now... I'm using the iPower2 which is 5V 2.5amps however I am presuming somewhere along the chain of iPower 2 > iDefender + > dac/amp there is something that will stop my dac/amp from being overpowered. I'm not too sure how this electrical stuff works so if somebody could comment on this too and tell me if this would cause the issue I described above that would be great. The dac/amp is operating at *completely normal* temperatures as it was before the introduction of the iPower and iDefender

Edit: This is probably useful to know. I've noticed that when connecting *any* usb device to the computer, this ALSO triggers the whining effect(tinnitus sound) from the speakers. The same happens when disconnecting usb devices. Example: I disconnect a usb device and the whining occurs. After 4 seconds, its gone. Same instance with connecting a usb device; whining for 4 seconds, then gone. The same happens when *any* audio plays, however the whining does not stop unless the audio stops. So for a simple windows 10 sound effect : whining for 4 seconds, then gone. For music listening however : whining starts, doesn't stop until 4 seconds after the music has been paused. Would the iSilencer+ fix this? It sounds to me like a usb interference issue.

Answers to 1 and 2 would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks again

 

[iFi audio]

Well, yes it works but I have concerns about possibly damaging my gear. As you can read in my previous post the developer of my soundcard device stated that there are risks associated with disconnecting the ground on the USB. I just want to make sure I won't damage anything. Can you comment on that? Or does the iDefender+ not simply cut off the ground?

Galvanic isolators for example glavanically isolate USB (...so that it works without DC connection) and don't cause any harm. As for iDefender+, it's safe to use and intelligent as far as grounding goes. If it works for you, please use it!

1. Can I buy the iSilencer+ and set up as follows: Pc usb > iSilencer+ > iDefender+ > usb/dac amp > active speakers
Keeping in mind I want to use the iSilencer and iDefender from the same usb port such that they work together to hopefully reduce this *identical to tinnitus* sound coming from my speakers tweeters?
I am hoping the iSilencer+ is the solution so please let me know.

iSilencer+ was designed to measure incoming noise and inject its opposite waveform to cancel it, so it might help. But it would be good to know what causes that noise in the first place; whether it's related to a ground loop somewhere, faulty USB port or something else.

2. Edit: another thing to mention would be that my Fiio k3 dac/amp , under its specifications list found here : https://www.fiio.com/k3s_parameters
states under "power supply parameters" that "DC5V 500mA (recommended)" is the reccomended amperage for such a device. Now... I'm using the iPower2 which is 5V 2.5amps however I am presuming somewhere along the chain of iPower 2 > iDefender + > dac/amp there is something that will stop my dac/amp from being overpowered. I'm not too sure how this electrical stuff works so if somebody could comment on this too and tell me if this would cause the issue I described above that would be great. The dac/amp is operating at *completely normal* temperatures as it was before the introduction of the iPower and iDefender

In short, your iPower2 is capable of outputting steady 2.5A at 5V, but your DAC will take from that only what it needs and voltage regulators will adjust voltage it needs to operate.

 

[duranxv]

Out of curiosity - for maximum isolation and "cleaning" can you connect the silencer directly into the defender? And then connect an external USB hub to the sliencer?

The hub has its own power supply, so I wouldn't need the 5V for the defender.

 

[Lewiscube]

Hi there, I have done some troubleshooting in order to help answer the following

But it would be good to know what causes that noise in the first place; whether it's related to a ground loop somewhere, faulty USB port or something else.

Referring to my previous post, this is the method I have been using to test wether such and such fixes the problem im having:

Example: I disconnect a usb device and the whining occurs. After 4 seconds, its gone. Same instance with connecting a usb device; whining for 4 seconds, then gone. The same happens when *any* audio plays, however the whining does not stop unless the audio stops. *So for a simple windows 10 sound effect : whining for 4 seconds, then gone. For music listening however : whining starts, doesn't stop until 4 seconds after the music has been paused.*

Where the asterisks point out my particular method used in this troubleshooting process ^

Essentially, I have been clicking the windows 10 volume control, such that it plays a system sound which causes the high pitched ringing after which the ringing will go away after about 4 seconds so long as *no audio continues to play*. I am keeping my ears close to the speakers so that I can hear the whine accurately but do note that at a listening position of about 55cm away its still audible so its quite a problem. Also note that *there is a very very minor pop when the ringing stops also*

Heres some things i've done in no particular order:
1. I disconnected the ipower2 and iDefender+ to see if the ringing could be triggered whilst not using said devices and used my pc's usb port to power my dac. It was impossible to tell if the ringing was there due to all the ground loop interference overpowering everything else so that was a dead end. [Its good to know that when using the iPower and iDefender+ with my dac the problem is *not audible* at all when using my headphones]-** This is no longer factual. The problem does indeed occur when using the headphones in the same audio chain.** I know there is no need to use a ground loop isolator when I *dont have my speakers plugged in* however I enjoy the sound improvements of the devices.
2. I've untangled rca cables which didnt change the problem
3. Used my iPad pro to drive the usb dac, the ringing is no longer there when playing any form of audio etc, so I have isolated the problem to the pc.
4. Changing usb ports did not work. Disconnecting other devices from their usb ports also did nothing.
5. Changing EQ to have -25db in the range of 4000Hz-20000Hz did nothing at all. So the speakers are picking up some kind of interference and just to say again *it sounds like tinnitus and I have had two relatives also confirm the same sound to make sure its not my ears*
6. Changing the volume does not change the volume/pitch of the ringing either
7. Turned off and unplugged my wifi router from its power, this also changed nothing
8. Unplugged my monitor from power, no change
9. Whilst typing this, I unplugged my keyboard and *riiiiiiing* for about 4 seconds then it stops. Same ringing occurs when I plug the keyboard back in. This occurs with all my usb devices
10. I dont know why... but reducing the sampling rate from 24 bit 192Khz to 16 bit 44.1Khz reduces the problem quite significantly - but the problem is still there nonetheless.

Potential PC hardware problems could be as follows : Harddrive being plugged into motherboard may cause this --- My motherboard *does not* have all motherboard screws in place due to losing them years ago. So my motherboard is being held against to the case with 4 out of 8 available screw holes (could this cause grounding problems?) --- My power supply for my pc is 6 years old this month. Its bronze rated from coolermaster.

Please understand I am not *expecting* a solution from iFi nor do I blame them for this issue. I am simply consulting this forum as a means to get help. I am still very happy with my iDefender+ as it genuinely improves the sound quality and solved my problem as advertised.

iFi, if there are no solutions you guys can think of (such as an iSilencer+) then I will take these problems to other forums and hopefully figure it out. I do however thank you for your time in replying to my previous posts, its greatly appreciated. I am of course willing to continue the discussion, I am not looking for a solution immediately. I will gladly cooperate fully

I would also like to ask anybody reading this forum : If I were to listen at say, 60db, where the noise is completely drowned out, will my eardrums still be picking up the sound even though I cant hear it? Because naturally the high frequency whine is still being emitted even though its inaudible at 60db+ due to all the other sounds being played, so would this damage my eardrums since the sound is present the entire time audio is being played? Because keep in mind the ringing only stops *after* audio stops

 

[duranxv]

Out of curiosity - for maximum isolation and "cleaning" can you connect the silencer directly into the defender? And then connect an external USB hub to the sliencer?

The hub has its own power supply, so I wouldn't need the 5V for the defender.

@iFi audio When you get chance. Thanks

 

[Andymirror]

Hello everyone!
I read a lot of useful information in this thread. Thank you all very much.
I want to share my experience. Maybe someone will come in handy.
I am using Presonus studio 68c external audio interface with my Windows 10 desktop computer.
Presonus studio 68c connected to a USB 3.0 port on a computer
Presonus studio 68c has an external power supply and does not require USB power.
Headphones and studio monitors connected to the Presonus studio 68c continually hear RF noise from the computer. The presence of this noise did not depend on adjusting the sound volume using Windows 10 and through the audio interface itself.
In hopes of getting rid of this RF noise, I bought iDefender +
I connected iDefender + according to the manufacturer's instructions without an external 5V power supply, just like connecting external audio interfaces that do not require USB power.
The RF noise decreased significantly, but did not disappear completely, and I could still hear this noise in the headphones.
Then I tried to connect the 5V power supply to the corresponding iDefender + connector
Bingo! RF noise completely disappeared. Absolute silence in the pauses.

Sorry for my English, this is not my native language.

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Hello everyone!
I read a lot of useful information in this thread. Thank you all very much.
I want to share my experience. Maybe someone will come in handy.
I am using Presonus studio 68c external audio interface with my Windows 10 desktop computer.
Presonus studio 68c connected to a USB 3.0 port on a computer
Presonus studio 68c has an external power supply and does not require USB power.
Headphones and studio monitors connected to the Presonus studio 68c continually hear RF noise from the computer. The presence of this noise did not depend on adjusting the sound volume using Windows 10 and through the audio interface itself.
In hopes of getting rid of this RF noise, I bought iDefender +
I connected iDefender + according to the manufacturer's instructions without an external 5V power supply, just like connecting external audio interfaces that do not require USB power.
The RF noise decreased significantly, but did not disappear completely, and I could still hear this noise in the headphones.
Then I tried to connect the 5V power supply to the corresponding iDefender + connector
Bingo! RF noise completely disappeared. Absolute silence in the pauses.

Sorry for my English, this is not my native language.

Your English is great here! Thanks for the feedback, glad the combo worked for you.

 

[Lewiscube]

Hello everyone, referring to my most recent post on this forum about a 10kHz whine: problem solved .

It was my RCA cables picking up interference from my monitor cables etc, my cables are frankly a mess. This issue was solved by purchasing a shorter length of the same RCA cable.

I am now wishing I bought some expensive RCA cables instead, which are shielded and sound better (according to other people better rca cables improve on sound quality)

Regardless, iDefender+ and iPower 2 still working as intended to remove the ground loop interference hum

 

[nishan99]

Can I use the iSilencer+ as a cable between my dongle and smartphone or do I have to use a cable between them?

 

[iFi audio]

Can I use the iSilencer+ as a cable between my dongle and smartphone or do I have to use a cable between them?

You can connect iSilencer+ to your smartphone directly if that's what you're asking

 

[chickifat123]

Hi everyone, I'm having a PC ground loop problem (tiny hum on left IEM piece). FYI my current set up is just a normal PC > Dragonfly Cobalt > IEM.

Whenever i played any media/audio the hum appears, and also quickly disappear 4-5 seconds after i stop the playback. Can anyone confirm if this is indeed a ground loops problems? (No humming sound when I switched the Cobalt to my Note 10+ via OTG)

I have tried the poor man solution of plugging all possible power jack to a single outlet but that does not to be working.

I'm planning to buy a Ipurifier 3.0 as a gradual upgrade path to my setup but seeing that there is no advertising materials from ifi saying anything about groundloop, so i might have to get a idefender first.

So the main question: As the Cobalt requires power via USB, do the Idefender's power socket need to be plugged in to power the Cobalt. Anyone here can confirm if the Cobalt can still work without a a power connection.

 

[iFi audio]

As the Cobalt requires power via USB, do the Idefender's power socket need to be plugged in to power the Cobalt.

Our iDefender+ will pass on 5V to a USB-powered DAC without an optional external PSU connected to its side. Hope this helps, thanks!