[whitedragem]

I hope not. Unnecessary distraction. Smartphones, Tablets and Laptops are already things we carry with us daily. DAPs just adds another device on top of that with less power, but bundled with “features” to make u buy a device running a dated OS. I really rather just carry the Diablo as my do it all portable audio setup, with my most up to date devices.

a lot of that comment feels backwards to those who understand the actual benefits of a DAP.
The phone is a jack of all trades/master of none.
Running ‘outdated’ OS on a DAP is usually due to it being custom code designed around perfect audio transport from an ‘outdated CPU’ (also chosen due to a manufacturer having great white docs/knowledge with ‘how to get the best’ from said part).
Keeping the devices seperate typically leaves a phone capable of taking calls during critical moments (without affecting the audio that everyone might be enjoying) and usually leaves the phone with the power it needs mostly by removing the multimedia burden from its function.
I have found that most of the DAPs I buy have ‘no features’ (just pure audio), and when I have them, both of my devices never have any power concerns...(sometimes for days)
Having all sorts of stuff loaded on my phone is the distraction.. where as having my ‘toy’/entertainment device be pure usually makes it better for that (i actually play on a nintendo handheld frequently, and no ‘not a Switch’, cause it has never left the dock..) I like physical controls and dedicated gaming units. I like the vastly better audio output that most mid tier DAPs offer (even just as a transport), generally due to having custom OS’s and chips.

I have never had great digital transport duties pulled by any of the mainstream OS’s.
The sound quality upgrade by getting away from kernel level mixers that don’t care about output sampling rates etc is noticable, especially into higher level kit.
I gather many here run select audio playback software that *hopefully* restores control / or grants better access to hardware features.. but having bought a DAP that doesn’t even have a radio in it, its output flogs even a *great* CD player for digital transport duties.

I basically consider using a phone the ‘last option’ and I usually choose to simply go without music when that is the case.
If iFi did have a product that was tailored along the same lines as a Diablo (music first, everything else be damned) then I’d certainly champion its goal.
I think iFi implementing circuits that use much of their clever tech makes perfect sense.
I kinda like that their concepts are more than their output and that they are already happily over worked

DACs and amps make sense to many more people than the world of DAPs simply because most people justify that their expensive phone IS a camera and a GPS and an internet portal etc, and hence should be their DAP as well.
Its been a long time since phones were actually good at being a phone. (they are certainly very average at being a transport)
iFi targeting DACs and amps make practical sales to many markets, not just phone users, and I’m not sure if the unit sales to be found with DAPs is worth the effort.

 

[Dr Riddim]

so balanced 4.4mm -> balanced XLR -> XLR to RCA, is that correct? Do you think having a 4.4mm to RCA made would work the same way?

Not sure if things are that simple from balanced XLR to RCA with Diablo. Would be good to get info from the manufacturer. I happen to know that for Burson Conductor Reference 3X the XLR outputs are direct coupling for the best sonic performance, so one needs a transformer if going from XLR balanced to RCA, meaning that off-the-shelf XLR to RCA adaptors would damage the internal op-amps. So, I would not experiment with adaptor cables for Diablo before checking.

 

[justanut]

True too. But for my use case DAPs don’t make too much of sense. I lost most of my collection with a failed RAID transfer years back (threw out all the boxes of CDs when I moved as well).. So I’m mostly streaming from Tidal these days. Dated Android devices make me worried that the latest streaming apps may not be supported eventually. Really not keen to keep updating DAPs every few years. But YMMV, it’s my particular use case. Which is also why I didn’t even hesitate in ordering the Diablo.

IFI might not have as much access to software engineers as companies like iBasso and FiiO.. hence why I felt it would be a distraction for them.

a lot of that comment feels backwards to those who understand the actual benefits of a DAP.
The phone is a jack of all trades/master of none.
Running ‘outdated’ OS on a DAP is usually due to it being custom code designed around perfect audio transport from an ‘outdated CPU’ (also chosen due to a manufacturer having great white docs/knowledge with ‘how to get the best’ from said part).
Keeping the devices seperate typically leaves a phone capable of taking calls during critical moments (without affecting the audio that everyone might be enjoying) and usually leaves the phone with the power it needs mostly by removing the multimedia burden from its function.
I have found that most of the DAPs I buy have ‘no features’ (just pure audio), and when I have them, both of my devices never have any power concerns...(sometimes for days)
Having all sorts of stuff loaded on my phone is the distraction.. where as having my ‘toy’/entertainment device be pure usually makes it better for that (i actually play on a nintendo handheld frequently, and no ‘not a Switch’, cause it has never left the dock..) I like physical controls and dedicated gaming units. I like the vastly better audio output that most mid tier DAPs offer (even just as a transport), generally due to having custom OS’s and chips.

I have never had great digital transport duties pulled by any of the mainstream OS’s.
The sound quality upgrade by getting away from kernel level mixers that don’t care about output sampling rates etc is noticable, especially into higher level kit.
I gather many here run select audio playback software that *hopefully* restores control / or grants better access to hardware features.. but having bought a DAP that doesn’t even have a radio in it, its output flogs even a *great* CD player for digital transport duties.

I basically consider using a phone the ‘last option’ and I usually choose to simply go without music when that is the case.
If iFi did have a product that was tailored along the same lines as a Diablo (music first, everything else be damned) then I’d certainly champion its goal.
I think iFi implementing circuits that use much of their clever tech makes perfect sense.
I kinda like that their concepts are more than their output and that they are already happily over worked

DACs and amps make sense to many more people than the world of DAPs simply because most people justify that their expensive phone IS a camera and a GPS and an internet portal etc, and hence should be their DAP as well.
Its been a long time since phones were actually good at being a phone. (they are certainly very average at being a transport)
iFi targeting DACs and amps make practical sales to many markets, not just phone users, and I’m not sure if the unit sales to be found with DAPs is worth the effort.

 

[Bob Parish]

so balanced 4.4mm -> balanced XLR -> XLR to RCA, is that correct? Do you think having a 4.4mm to RCA made would work the same way?

https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Ada...words=4.4mm+male+to+rca&qid=1613237951&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Ada...words=4.4mm+male+to+rca&qid=1613237951&sr=8-5

 

[Bob Parish]

I do, but it’d have to be made right...

the solution I put forward is inelegant, but in case people weren’t sure such adapters exist, figured it might help.

in fairness the front single ended output to 2xphono plugs is probably a good short term solution too..

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...e-reference-done-our-way.951615/post-16176023

 

[ianjturner]

https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Ada...words=4.4mm+male+to+rca&qid=1613237951&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Ada...words=4.4mm+male+to+rca&qid=1613237951&sr=8-5

That looks like the type that is just shorting one side of the L and R amp outputs together. Doesn’t seem too healthy for the amp to me…

 

[Bob Parish]

That looks like the type that is just shorting one side of the L and R amp outputs together. Doesn’t seem too healthy for the amp to me…

I tested one of these with another balanced DAC's (not with Diablo), and L & R from 4.4mm male plug are separated to each RCA channel, anyway if you don't like, ship it back at no charge!

 

[ianjturner]

I tested one of these with another balanced DAC's (not with Diablo), and L & R from 4.4mm male plug are separated to each RCA channel, anyway if you don't like, ship it back at no charge!

The amp with the RCA input is where the danger lies. The short happens at the receiving amp. I think this is very bad advice.

 

[whitedragem]

The amp with the RCA input is where the danger lies. The short happens at the receiving amp. I think this is very bad advice.

Dr Marius gave a scenario where the sending electronics were not happy, yes?

I agree with you.. I wouldn’t just shoehorn a regular cable/phono plug....

I figured so long as the signal is handled properly by the adaptor (stripping of one of the lines) and that the voltage is correct, then it should work.
Dr Marius Riddim (post #542) example with another bit of kit made me recant my words suggesting to use said setup.. I have (out of guilt) done further research on the topic.. but Dr Marius take put the ball firmly in iFis court to answer as far as I care... (I like audio too much to risk taking it away from ANYBODY through bad advice)

 

[Bob Parish]

The amp with the RCA input is where the danger lies. The short happens at the receiving amp. I think this is very bad advice.

OK!

 

[Bob Parish]

Dr Marius gave a scenario where the sending electronics were not happy, yes?

I agree with you.. I wouldn’t just shoehorn a regular cable/phono plug....

I figured so long as the signal is handled properly by the adaptor (stripping of one of the lines) and that the voltage is correct, then it should work.
Dr Marius example with another bit of kit made me recant my words suggesting to use said setup.. I have (out of guilt) done further research on the topic.. but Dr Marius take put the ball firmly in iFis court to answer as far as I care... (I like audio too much to risk taking it away from ANYBODY through bad advice)

OK!

 

[whitedragem]

True too. But for my use case DAPs don’t make too much of sense. I lost most of my collection with a failed RAID transfer years back (threw out all the boxes of CDs when I moved as well).. So I’m mostly streaming from Tidal these days. Dated Android devices make me worried that the latest streaming apps may not be supported eventually. Really not keen to keep updating DAPs every few years. But YMMV, it’s my particular use case. Which is also why I didn’t even hesitate in ordering the Diablo.

IFI might not have as much access to software engineers as companies like iBasso and FiiO.. hence why I felt it would be a distraction for them.

Soz mate, I WANTED TO LIKE your reply,.. but losing your music catalogue in a data backup/copy is just sad.
I didn’t like that at all
+1/kudos for the discussion though (the ‘imaginary “high 5”’ if you will)

Yeah its like knowing that the new gaming consoles might have their games content/output diminished due to having too many products
eg Microsoft want to make new consoles every couple of years- this was a strategy they came up with prior to launching the Xbox X a couple of years ago; which will massively devalue the console gaming market that is generally made better by longer platform lifetimes and studios/developers getting better with the hardware that they are using.

that line of thought then regarding iFi; polish what you know and love, rather than spread thin and fail.

businesses that are not doing well want to cover ‘other bases’.
With the Diablo, iFi are standing tall- the Diablo is a product that makes sense.. it is clearly iFi climbing up the chain into higher end territory. (which the Diablo shows they deserve a seat at the table)

@justanut; you are right as to why many want a high powered (cpu) device to run tidal,and other ‘up to date’ apps, and of course your use case is a perfect reason for wanting outboard parts (with dedicated clocks for neat sampling rate matching etc), it is easy to upgrade a phone to getting exceptional audio, as needed, with something like a Diablo.
The nice thing is how the Diablo scales.. it’ll work well from a phone, but also cleans up USB noise and will take input happily from home kit as well, being a PC or even as a massive upgrade to some ancient CD player.
It really deserves a good transport so it can shine even more... I know many here with want tidal/MQA, or they might have a large catalogue of hi res, but for me it is the joy of making old high quality CD players, used as a digital transport, and bringing their sound forward with evolution in audio.. I havent seen an MQA CD yet, but I suppose it’s only a matter of time.

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

The ‘imaginary “high 5”’ if you will)

Was that a ready player one reference?

Thanks for your continued support of iFi and much love you've given to the Diablo already so glad you're loving it!

 

[kuehkueh]

Not sure if this already has been discussed but what is the solution for line out to RCA/unbalanced?

Not sure if things are that simple from balanced XLR to RCA with Diablo. Would be good to get info from the manufacturer.

The amp with the RCA input is where the danger lies. The short happens at the receiving amp. I think this is very bad advice.

Can we have iFi's opinion on this please? Thanks!

 

[whitedragem]

Righto I am surprised that so few peeps are posting up thoughts on this part. (so far)
Whilst my unit is not even two days played yet, and is unfair to judge it (subjectively or otherwise)- I‘d like to throw up a few more notes on how this part plays in a system or by its lonesome... for anyone looking and wondering at whether it is a justifiable purchase. (I am penning a review but that is for elsewhere so am happy to share my musings and findings as they evolve, if only to further the discussion..)

The other night I gave the unit a good old blast through the home hifi using the balanced outputs. I do think that the cables plugging into the rear of the unit are all too close together- if a user needs to use the included fibre optic adapter, it will certainly push up against the 4.4mm xlr ’y’ cable.. The USB isn’t so close to the other two that it ‘pushes back’ but it does look a little not field tested that the included adapter have a perfectly round edge. (I want to shave 1mm from a side so that everything fits together neatly)..

Plugging in the USB cable (power), whilst the Diablo is turned on and outputting to the preamp drops the sound momentarily. The part doesn’t run so hot that I am afraid to charge it whilst it is in use. I did, from a full charge, get eleven hours of headphone use in eco mode with the dial, for large durations, at the 2pm position (very loud even for my sensitive ’over ear’ cans (Ultrasone Edition 5s’))

The sound is very precise, so much so that the cat now tracks sounds in the room. This is an interesting point that bears longer discussion, but just like when we stopped using a plasma TV, the cat could finally watch what was on the TV (LCD/OLED). Using the prior DACs didn’t elicit any interest from the feline. When I turn the valve monoblocks on, the cat typically looks up, but using the Diablo, the cat responds to trackable instruments, and more so ‘sounds’ in some recordings. (this room has had no change in front end setup, other than DACs, for well more than a year (when I ‘toed in’ the speakers a few degrees), and this behaviour in the cat is a ‘newly observed phenomenon, since Fridays shopping run. (When I found a Diablo at my local ‘Addicted to Audio’)

Due to the nature of the sound/circuits still settling, I won’t get all poetic on what I am hearing- I will list what the unit has been doing to ME though...

First night of ownership I stayed up till 4am. I literally couldn’t pull myself away. I wasn’t overly energised, or sleepy, or stressed about ‘buyers remorse’ (actually haven’t had any of that, but am confused as to what to do with my Hugo DAC now) - it was just engaging, either as background or with full attention- the sound- every track- was giving me stuff that I previously had either missed or was giving me things that were obvious, but now lifelike and truly present.
I had this experience with some Audeze Planars from the Chord Hugo when I first bought the planar headphones.. I figured “this is a match”, and that prior to hearing them together I wouldn’t have believed that recorded audio could sound that good. (tears formed)

I give my ‘tears formed‘ statements - not because I am overly empathetic (and certainly not regarding consumer electronics), but due to that culmination of ‘so much’ human emotion, that at certain times with audio kit, I tear up a little. (maybe a couple of times a year, typically when playing with a whole new tier of kit, or having found some magic pairing/system synergy)..

So, goosebump moments aside, a rather exhilarating challenge keeps landing in my lap,.. like right now, as to ‘which setup should I play this thing (Diablo) on?’.

I was lying in a quiet room critically listening to familiar recordings, mostly skipping tracks to listen for key notes and effects, and ‘brief (reference) moments’ that I am very familiar with.
Of course the problem is there just isn’t enough time in the day. To wind up my Sunday morning listening, the house was quiet, partner at work, child in bed, I kept skipping tracks and ‘not having enough time to visit albums‘ (Alan Parson I Robot!) and give them the time I wished.

After listening to Billy Eilish (eek spelling)- Bury a Friend, and the track before it, I felt guilty for not having my note paper handy. So many examples of better positioning or layering, or low notes being given proper resolving power even sitting under what is Trent Reznor like (Nothing Records/Nine Inch Nails) levels of engineering dynamism..
Guilty for not having my note paper handy as you only get one chance at a ‘first impression’ and that is always the time I can tell when something stands out most! (more than any time previously)
Hearing extra lyrics or, like on a few Tori Amos tracks, being able to hear all the lyrics clearly, even in the backing vocals she happily gives herself..

Not wanting to miss out notetaking what music I was doing and my experiences I decided to settle on one album that would play until my partner returned.

So I figured I would throw on the London Philharmonic playing Pink Floyd tracks.
Time was the opening track and if I didn’t ‘yet again’ have one of those confusing moments (of absolute beauty, big ‘smile on my dial’)- I wanted to play this on the hifi rig!
As I write this Breathe has finished, and to say that this is excellent is an understatement. Excellent just doesn’t cut it. I did expect that classical music must be the genre that the Chord DAC would claw its way back to a win.
Given I am not benchmarking (subjectively) the two parts until the Diablo has run in for a few more days, I am not ‘fast switching between them’. I know that I will have to get back some $500 reference RCAs to make the competition in its‘ fairest light, even against the ‘free’ cable that comes with the Diablo.

At this point I can only guess that the XLR/balanced input on my twenty year old preamp is simply in a healthier state. Or something (the science guy in me wants to know ‘how is this possible’).

What I can say, and just know “I‘m no muso”, my preference is always towards soundstage & imaging, and then dynamics as my first two criteria to get right. (of course I don’t listen to anything that doesn’t have an infinite noise floor, so that is probably pole position and I just don’t acknowledge it).. the last couple of days has had me tearing up more often than not. More often than ever. Never on these speakers have so many tracks delivered real ‘in the room’ instruments.
Its why I logged in and commited words here in the first place;
-=This little one box wonder is *something special*=-
I don’t know what they have done, but I can only guess that the world population of fairies has diminished further, and that ground up unicorn horn is disappearing from all dispensaries even as I type: I reckon both of these parts are making their way into magic little parcels and traveling world over to hifi stockists everywhere.. Like hearing those Audeze Planars for the first time, audio market rules are being rewritten is my take..

$0.02 given.

And just like every album over the last couple of days, typically left on repeat and heard two or even three times in a row;‘Time’ is once again playing, and I just don’t care....