[robm321]

^ good info there. I might consider the ACS custom.

Yes but they fall apart very easily. 

This is my experience as well. The gliders are great but they don't last long.

 

[headdict]

   
Try gilder tips if you haven't already from Etymotic, they're quite comfortable.
 
I was becoming like yourself, tired of the foam wearing out. Some days I didn't want to go through the insertion etc...
 
They've worked for me.

I have tried gliders a year ago with my HF5. I remember well that I experienced a couple hours of incredible music enjoyment mixed with severe pain in the cheeks until one of them fell apart in my ear canal. 

 I think they are too large for deep insertion, in my ears at least. Never was brave enough to try again.

 

[sanakimpro]

How does the Westone Star Tips differ from the original ER4PT tips in term of SQ? I am using the triflange and foam and don't seem to find a problem, except for probably a 'too tight' bass? xD
 
Perhaps that's what ER was for, but would the Westone tips help? Isolation wise I think the triflange do a pretty good job once inserted properly.
 
Thanks!

 

[H20Fidelity]

I have tried gliders a year ago with my HF5. I remember well that I experienced a couple hours of incredible music enjoyment mixed with severe pain in the cheeks until one of them fell apart in my ear canal. :eek:  I think they are too large for deep insertion, in my ears at least. Never was brave enough to try again.

Sounds like a pretty tragic story man. It's been a pretty high flying glider experience here. Maybe they have changed them like uiz2 mentioned.

 

[headdict]

 
For what it's worth I have several custom molds, which I bought after lots of experimentation with tips purchased from Etymotic, Shure, and Comply.  (Since that time Westone's introduced their Star Tips which I think are pretty recommendable.)
 
My favorite are from ACS Custom, which are a half-shell design in medium-firm silicone with a fairly short bore between the end of the ER-4 and the outlet of the earpiece.  They protrude more than a fully-inserted ER-4, but it's really not enough to be publicly embarrassing at all.  I have this one in both clear and black, and the two colors seem equally firm and I don't hear a sonic difference between them.
 
I have three sets from Westone, who offer a range of materials.  All my Westones are full-shell designs with a somewhat longer bore than the ACS molds, and they protrude more than the ACS sleeves. 
 
The best of my Westones is in their "water clear" silicone which is somewhat firmer than ACS' silicone.  It's somewhat hard to insert and remove, but has the best isolation of any of my customs, and maybe a hair better fidelity than the ACS but I'm not sure.  I have another Westone in water clear but with their slightly roughed up finish: it's a whole lot easier to insert, but it doesn't seal quite as well.  And I have one in their soft silicone, which I really wouldn't recommend unless you actually like having a portion of your treble energy being absorbed by the sound bore walls instead of going into your ear.  But it's fine from a comfort and isolation perspective.
 
Of the non-custom tips, my current favorite are the Westone Star Tips, which I find pretty comfortable although not nearly as much so as the custom tips. 

I have tried Westone Star Tips, but they didn't solve my ety problem. Maybe I'll give them another try or go the ACS route. It's at least rather inexpensive in comparison to a UERM.

 

[ozkan]

 
For what it's worth I have several custom molds, which I bought after lots of experimentation with tips purchased from Etymotic, Shure, and Comply.  (Since that time Westone's introduced their Star Tips which I think are pretty recommendable.)
 
My favorite are from ACS Custom, which are a half-shell design in medium-firm silicone with a fairly short bore between the end of the ER-4 and the outlet of the earpiece.  They protrude more than a fully-inserted ER-4, but it's really not enough to be publicly embarrassing at all.  I have this one in both clear and black, and the two colors seem equally firm and I don't hear a sonic difference between them.
 
I have three sets from Westone, who offer a range of materials.  All my Westones are full-shell designs with a somewhat longer bore than the ACS molds, and they protrude more than the ACS sleeves. 
 
The best of my Westones is in their "water clear" silicone which is somewhat firmer than ACS' silicone.  It's somewhat hard to insert and remove, but has the best isolation of any of my customs, and maybe a hair better fidelity than the ACS but I'm not sure.  I have another Westone in water clear but with their slightly roughed up finish: it's a whole lot easier to insert, but it doesn't seal quite as well.  And I have one in their soft silicone, which I really wouldn't recommend unless you actually like having a portion of your treble energy being absorbed by the sound bore walls instead of going into your ear.  But it's fine from a comfort and isolation perspective.
 
Of the non-custom tips, my current favorite are the Westone Star Tips, which I find pretty comfortable although not nearly as much so as the custom tips. 

 
Do Westone Star Tips alter the sound of ER4? How does it perform in terms of SQ?

 

[episiarch]

   
Do Westone Star Tips alter the sound of ER4? How does it perform in terms of SQ?

For me the fit of an earpiece has always had a lot more effect on SQ than anything to do with its material or the details of its design.  I think I get as good and as deep a fit with the star tips as I've gotten with any other tip, and with equally good SQ.  It doesn't isolate quite as much as the particular Comply foam tip that fits me best, but that's a really extreme amount of isolation that I don't need (the Comply foams are so quiet they leave me excessively aware of body noises like jaw movements and such, which honestly is not such a great thing).
 
But it did take me a few attempts to find the right star tips.  Measuring my existing tips didn't provide as much of a clue to which Stars I should get as I thought it would.  Eventually I wound up getting three or four of the sizes by time I'd figured out which one was right for me.
 

  How does the Westone Star Tips differ from the original ER4PT tips in term of SQ? I am using the triflange and foam and don't seem to find a problem, except for probably a 'too tight' bass? xD
 
Perhaps that's what ER was for, but would the Westone tips help? Isolation wise I think the triflange do a pretty good job once inserted properly.
 
Thanks!

 
For me the advantage of the Stars is only in fit and convenience.  For me the Stars don't sound different from any other tip that gives me a good seal at the right insertion depth.  The triflanges sounded great to me but wouldn't stay seated in just the right spot in my ears (which, for me, is all the way in) and would gradually work their way a little further out.  Ety foams never fit me comfortably, and Comply foams were comfortable enough but the insertion process was a bit inconvenient.  And I had similar problems with the gliders, and various Shure tips, etc. etc.  But that's just me.  If the triflanges and foams had worked as well for me as they seem to for you, I would have stopped there. 

 

[csglinux]

Don Wilson himself said that the sub bass could be improved by physical means but at the cost of losing functionality on airplanes. But I think there must be a way to fix that.

I'm curious to understand what he'd change and what would go wrong on an airplane. Can anybody elaborate?

 

[K_19]

I'm curious to understand what he'd change and what would go wrong on an airplane. Can anybody elaborate?

 
My guess would be maybe changing the physical design (using Dynamic drivers and putting in vents maybe?) at a cost of sacrificing a great deal of isolation, making it no longer useful in noisy environments like planes.

 

[csglinux]

My guess would be maybe changing the physical design (using Dynamic drivers and putting in vents maybe?) at a cost of sacrificing a great deal of isolation, making it no longer useful in noisy environments like planes.

Something to do with dynamic drivers was my guess too, but I'd bet most DD earphones have already taken a couple of airplane rides in between being manufactured and reaching the end user. I have several DD earphones that work just fine on airplanes. Of course, none have the isolation of the ER4S, but I believe that is simply ergonomics (most DD earphones have short stubby posts, which don't allow for the kind of medical-grade insertion you can achieve with the ER4). Can anybody else shed any light on what might go wrong on an airplane?!

 

[luisdent]

It's a barometric release to prevent problems due to the difference in pressure on an airplane. I'm guessing it primarily allows the air to escape the chamber at the appropriate speed so the driver can still move properly under different pressure conditions, but that's just a guess. Don Wilson did say that it would slightly improve the sub bass, but only very slightly. He said there are no plans to change the design though. :-/

I personally believe the response target the er4s uses is not adequate for bass accuracy. As an audio engineer, I can definitely say that mixing on the er4s is very doable from say 150hz and up. But trying to mix or master something with respect to low bass is nearly impossible. There simply isn't enough presence or amplitude in that region to adjust something and know what to expect when that translates to any speaker. Other headphones I've used are better in this regard but not ideal in the treble. More bass is better than not enough. It's not too hard to compensate for too much bass, if you are familiar with your earphones and a neutral response. But the er4s just doesn't have the lowest end presence to even hear things half the time. Not everyone has speakers that represent sub bass accurately, but when they do, or they have a decent sub woofer, the er4s is simply lacking.

Unfortunately, etymotic follows that target, so they think the sub bass is almost spot on. However, almost every other target out there shows the er4s as being deficient in the sub bass. Add to that the fact that "almost" everyone would at LEAST admit the sub bass isn't perfect, and it's too bad they wouldn't try at least to make a new iem that is like the er4s but with more sub bass. I use various eq settings i play with on the er4s, and while i mess around with the treble points, the bass point is always the same. I boost the sub bass by about 8db at 20hz in a curve that results in a 5db boost around 50hz that is back to neutral/0db no later than 100-150h or so.

While it doesn't make an enormous difference in overall sound, songs that contain sub bass reveal much more detail and presence in that region and are much more impressive when you get used to the change. The er4s then becomes much more easy to predict when mixing with. Perhaps still not the ideal choice, as speakers are more ideal, but when needed, they would be a great alternative.

 

[uzi2]

  Thanks, what about Lear lcm-5 ? I heard its the same signature with er4 . Is it true , anyone tried ?

I have a close relation to the Lear LCM-5, the Lear LUF-4C...
I'll start with the differences...
 
Isolation cannot match the Etys
Soundstage is wider and 3D with greater air.
Bass impact much improved
 
The similarities...
 
Great clarity and detail
 
I love the sound, but won't be parting with my Etys anytime soon.

 

[thunderfromsky]

 
I have a close relation to the Lear LCM-5, the Lear LUF-4C...
I'll start with the differences...
 
Isolation cannot match the Etys
Soundstage is wider and 3D with greater air.
Bass impact much improved
 
The similarities...
 
Great clarity and detail
 
I love the sound, but won't be parting with my Etys anytime soon.

Which one is better about treble extention and quantity ?
 ? lear or er4 ? Is lear luf 4c can be upgrade er4s ? Thank you 

 

[uzi2]

  Which one is better about treble extention and quantity ?
 ? lear or er4 ? Is lear luf 4c can be upgrade er4s ? Thank you 

Whilst the C is the LUF4 with extended highs, the most notable difference in comparison with ER4S is the bass impact.
If it had the same isolation, I would call it an upgrade.

 

[thunderfromsky]

Thank you , Have you tried custom cable silver/copper with luf4c or er4 ?