[pacman46]

I'm picking up my new er4s this morning. Woo hoo I can't wait. I've had the p's for some time now and have actually bought quit a few iems in the last little while and I really don't know why I've put this off so long. Lol dumb I guess lol. I can't wait to hear the difference between the p and the s?? I'm frign excited lol

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

I'm picking up my new er4s this morning. Woo hoo I can't wait. I've had the p's for some time now and have actually bought quit a few iems in the last little while and I really don't know why I've put this off so long. Lol dumb I guess lol. I can't wait to hear the difference between the p and the s?? I'm frign excited lol

I listened to my er4s in bed all last night.  And I have an ie800 and modded w4 sitting in on my desk.  I think they are the best earphones I've ever heard.  The f111 are probably second with EQ and a perfect fit.  Otherwise, the er4s just manages to do everything right and very little wrong.  Every single iem I try just solidifies in my mind exactly how flat and awesome the er4s really is.  Without even realizing it, I continue to eq all the other iems to be "flat" and sound great.  And although the presentation is different a lot of the time, when I go back to the er4s I ask myself why I eq everything to be flat and try so hard to find something that requires less EQ, when the er4s is it.  Small to zero sub bass boost and you're done.  MAYBE a 1db 7.5khz boost or so if you want it.  But that's to be picky and a perfectionist.  WIthout that they don't sound bad.  It isn't a fix for a bad peak or something.  It just enhances the treble a small amount.
 
But otherwise, show me an IEM that requires no eq to be flat and awesome and awesome isolation, durability, customer service, comfort (YES, I'm finding them actually comfortable now) and more.  Etymotic rocks.  So we can rock.
 
Hey, I just made their next slogan! haha   ETYMOTIC!  We rock, so you can rock.

 

[pacman46]

I listened to my er4s in bed all last night.  And I have an ie800 and modded w4 sitting in on my desk.  I think they are the best earphones I've ever heard.  The f111 are probably second with EQ and a perfect fit.  Otherwise, the er4s just manages to do everything right and very little wrong.  Every single iem I try just solidifies in my mind exactly how flat and awesome the er4s really is.  Without even realizing it, I continue to eq all the other iems to be "flat" and sound great.  And although the presentation is different a lot of the time, when I go back to the er4s I ask myself why I eq everything to be flat and try so hard to find something that requires less EQ, when the er4s is it.  Small to zero sub bass boost and you're done.  MAYBE a 1db 7.5khz boost or so if you want it.  But that's to be picky and a perfectionist.  WIthout that they don't sound bad.  It isn't a fix for a bad peak or something.  It just enhances the treble a small amount.

But otherwise, show me an IEM that requires no eq to be flat and awesome and awesome isolation, durability, customer service, comfort (YES, I'm finding them actually comfortable now) and more.  Etymotic rocks.  So we can rock.

Hey, I just made their next slogan! haha   ETYMOTIC!  We rock, so you can rock.

Lol that's awesome. I've been listening to them all day with my continetal v3 and they sound great. One thing I do really like is the bass. Call me weird but I don't mind it rite where it is. I like where everything is actually. The only thing is that I have to break in these new tips. Ouch!! Lol but that doesn't take long. Couple days or so and I'm good to go. I have the w4r's too and I really like them too actually. I tried for the hell of it these er4's unamped through my ipod classic. And really it wasn't that bad. Not as loud maybe do to them being 100 ohm but wasn't that bad. Gotta say I'm liking them better then my p version that's for sure. great headphone.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

Lol that's awesome.

I've been listening to them all day with my continetal v3 and they sound great. One thing I do really like is the bass. Call me weird but I don't mind it rite where it is. I like where everything is actually. The only thing is that I have to break in these new tips. Ouch!! Lol but that doesn't take long. Couple days or so and I'm good to go. I have the w4r's too and I really like them too actually. I tried for the hell of it these er4's unamped through my ipod classic. And really it wasn't that bad. Not as loud maybe do to them being 100 ohm but wasn't that bad. Gotta say I'm liking them better then my p version that's for sure.

great headphone.

I think people exaggerate the heck out of the "you need an amp" argument for the er4s.  Should you have one?  Yes.  Just for volume alone.  My ipod touch is driven at 100% volume on quiet soundtrack music.  Sometimes I want a little more.  Plus driving some amps at max power causes negative effects on the sound quality (distortion, etc.).  However, with even average volume music the er4s sounds very close to their sound amped.  The amp tightens up the impact and just makes them sound more effortless, so it is an improvement.  However, the er4s un-amped is better than any other iem still in my opinion.  With an amp you're just eeking out all the little benefits you can from them.  That's my opinion.  Quiet music, need an amp.  Average music, amp helps, but isn't drastically different.  If you're that worried about power, the er4p is still up there with the er4s but easier to drive.  I wouldn't trade the er4s for convenience though.  And a player like the fuze/zip/clip power them with no problem.

 

[robm321]

Without an amp, I prefer my HF-3. I think the ER4S needs an amp. Its not about volume but control of the drivers. They are noticeably slower and sluggish unamped. 
 
But still sound good 

 

[palmfish]

A balanced armiture driver slow and sluggish? I dont know about that...

 

[Berkovajazz]

ER4s needs amp!
Powerful sound and loud sound it is different parameters.
ER4P is ok for example even from HP iPod, but S can much more when has powerful output (amp or powerful player like HIFIman, Colorfly, etc, or from professional audio devices).

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

A balanced armiture driver slow and sluggish? I dont know about that...

 
I think I know what he means, but I just don't think it's "noticeable".  I think an audiophile will hear it, yes.  But you can't say the er4s un amped doesn't sound better than the er4p amped.  It's just not a big difference, but it's a difference.  And I'm one that wouldn't listen to it without it being driven properly.  But I'd still say it isn't a huge difference.  I just prefer every little bit.  That's why I have the er4s.

 

[zowki]

Can someone please describe once again this non-threatening method of pulling the dampers?

There is no way to remove the dampers without damaging them. They weren't designed to be reused.

 

[Inks]

Knowles dampers can be removed without damage just grip the metal portion

 

[palmfish]

The "S" and "P" are the same earphone. Only the impedance characteristics are different.

My comment was specifically asking why a BA driver might benefit from more power for "better control." A BA driver, by design, is very efficient - much more so than a dynamic driver. This is because of the moving magnet design, which floats a magnet on a pivot within a magnetic field. The diaphram is mechanically attached to the magnet, and moves as the magnet moves on its pivot - like a fulcrum. Simple economy of motion, leverage, and the magnets inherent instability provide all the damping required to control the diaphram.

As long as the amp has enough power to get loud without clipping/distortion, the BA earphone is happy.

 

[gnarlsagan]

Quote:

Knowles dampers can be removed without damage just grip the metal portion

 
+1 
 
I've done this myself. The filter removal tool has to be angled a bit to create the grip needed to get the filter out ime.
 
 

The "S" and "P" are the same earphone. Only the impedance characteristics are different.

My comment was specifically asking why a BA driver might benefit from more power for "better control." A BA driver, by design, is very efficient - much more so than a dynamic driver. This is because of the moving magnet design, which floats a magnet on a pivot within a magnetic field. The diaphram is mechanically attached to the magnet, and moves as the magnet moves on its pivot - like a fulcrum. Simple economy of motion, leverage, and the magnets inherent instability provide all the damping required to control the diaphram.

As long as the amp has enough power to get loud without clipping/distortion, the BA earphone is happy.

 
To add to this, I'm not sure about the iPod but the clip should be able to drive the ER4S to 114dB, plenty loud for all but the absolute quietest and most dynamic of recordings (I'm not sure I have any that would expose this issue).

 

[luisdent]

The "S" and "P" are the same earphone. Only the impedance characteristics are different.

My comment was specifically asking why a BA driver might benefit from more power for "better control." A BA driver, by design, is very efficient - much more so than a dynamic driver. This is because of the moving magnet design, which floats a magnet on a pivot within a magnetic field. The diaphram is mechanically attached to the magnet, and moves as the magnet moves on its pivot - like a fulcrum. Simple economy of motion, leverage, and the magnets inherent instability provide all the damping required to control the diaphram.

As long as the amp has enough power to get loud without clipping/distortion, the BA earphone is happy.

I know this, but i meant that i would take the improved treble due to the impedance, with no amping benefits over the more recessed treble amped.

 

[palmfish]

I know this, but i meant that i would take the improved treble due to the impedance, with no amping benefits over the more recessed treble amped.

Oh, I know you do Sean, and I agree with you. My comment was in response to robm321's original remark that the ER-4S needs an amp to control the driver - to prevent slow / sluggish sound.

 

[luisdent]

To add to this, I'm not sure about the iPod but the clip should be able to drive the ER4S to 114dB, plenty loud for all but the absolute quietest and most dynamic of recordings (I'm not sure I have any that would expose this issue).

I agree. Although i hit max volume now and then, it's with an eq precut and then not that bad. There are rare instances where i require more output, but far and few between. And even though it's a pain, technically the waveforms are so quiet i could safely remove any eq precut and even boost the eq flatly to get enough output.

Also, the difference in amping has been with almost any earphone in my experience. It's more a matter of the amp quality than the er4s themselves. I just hear a very small increase in spaciousness, which gives the sense of better attack and separation. But the difference is very small.