[ray4jc]

well if you are cheap like me and you have a streak of luck you could get a pair of HD600s used for the price of the HD580......

of course.....then i scored a clou red from one of those crazy guys who had to have the cardas..hehehe.....

just kidding of course...i'm sure he isn't crazy.....

ray

 

[andrzejpw]

When I bought my 580s, I questioned whether I should have gotten the 600s. I heard them side by side at the WOH tour, and I'm very happy with my 580s. The 600s gave a TOUCH more clarity, but that's with a MUCH better amp than most of us have, meaning the Max and MOH.

I'll be using them with my meta42 in a few weeks, and I'll report.

 

[AC1]

I had both in my system for a bit, the 600's are more dynamic than the 580's and has a fuller midrange which some people find as a mid range hump that can make them sound darker than the 580s... Everything was better defined more solid with the 600s... In my system I had always felt the sound was a bit soft, changing to 600s helped out quite a bit and it was not by a small margin.

 

[john_jcb]

I was under the impression that the 600's had matched drivers as well as the backing plate differences. I have wondered if this is one of the reasons some hear bigger differences between the 580 and 600. If you are lucky when buying the 580 you may just get drivers that are very close and they will sound the same as the 600s. Just a thought.

Another thought on why they may vary. If you assume that the driver's frequency response charteristics vary from item to item, and that they follow a normal Gaussian distribution. Perhaps Sennheiser is pulling drivers from the middle of the bell curve for matched 600 pairs and leaving the rest for the 580s. If they select randomly from the drivers that remain they can be very close or very different.

I know this happens with electronic components.

 

[LTUCCI1924]

HI JOHN:
I think that the drivers on the 580s are matched to a 3.0 or a little less but the 600 are matched to a 0.5 every time. I think thats why when you use real good source and real good amp the 600 sound better. But with just good source and good amp they both sound near the same. Unless you got great stuff the 580s are a great buy.

 

[bifcake]

I completely agree. If you have the money to spend on great components, then you may as well spend the extra $100 for the 600's just for the "what the hell" factor. Maybe they'll sound better, maybe they won't, but at least you get the feeling that you've bought the best you could afford and you don't spend your time wondering 'what if'. Otherwise, 580's constitute the absolute bang for the buck.

 

[j-curve]

Surely a stamped metal screen is going to resonate more than moulded plastic. I can imagine the sound each would make if you strung them up on a thread and hit them with a donger. [If you try this, best be sure no friends & family are nearby or you may confirm their darkest fears about the impact of this headphone obsession on your mental health

]. Carbon fibre is not immune to resonance either. The reason it's used in tennis rackets and racing cars is because it is harder and doesn't flex as much when stressed. As a consequence it resonates at higher frequencies. The important point would be whether its damping factor is better than the standard plastic. Personally I don't care because I think the whole thing about resonances is just a sales pitch. Stylistically, I like the pattern of the HD580's covers which could be from a brick wall in a vineyard somewhere in the mediterranean. From the practical viewpoint, I've seen a dented metal screen on a demo HD600.

John_jcb's point about driver selection is more of a concern. For example, if you buy a 5% tolerance resistor you can expect that it will be at least 1% wrong, otherwise it would have had different stripes painted on it and been put in the 1% basket. But there's no way HD580's are mismatched. Obviously all the drivers are being measured and those for the HD600 may indeed come from the middle of the distribution, but there's no reason you can't pair off the remainder. If this were not the case the difference would be audible, both in the headphones and here on Head-Fi. Provided you discard the drivers which don't meet the specification all will be well.

As far as the sound, I have heard subtle differences in a demo environment, where an HD600 had a slightly bigger bass hump and slightly more of the signature "airiness" to its top end than an adjacent HD580, giving me a preference for the latter. Such a test says more about the particular phones I listened to than the models in general. The primary problem is to get the volume levels identical, which, if there is a genuine difference in frequency response between the phones being compared, will depend on the source material. Then something as trivial as the adjustment of the headband can affect the perception of soundstage, etc. etc.

This is an interesting thread and I hope someone at Sennheiser is reading... It's all very well to change the trim and produce a deluxe version for those with the appetite, but to try and milk the market by creating an artificial shortage of the basic model would be a short-term strategy which could easily backfire. One day Senn's competitors may get a grip on diffuse field equalisation and laser interferometry and...
Hey what? Just caught myself in a pipe dream. Sorry. Feeling better now. HD580/600 rules eternal!

 

[bifcake]

J-Curve,

That's a terrific post!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I wonder if those who claim to hear differences between the 580's and 600's aren't in fact hearing the normal production batch variances that they would normally hear by comparing two pairs of 580's or two pairs of 600's.

Quite frankly, the whole 600 thing to me is a gimmick. Even if there are marginal improvements that are delivered by the 600's over 580's, the price increases should have been marginal as well. After all, how much more expensive can it be to produce a pair of 600's vs a pair of 580's even if you believe the driver matching thing. A $100? Hardly! I think that if Sennheiser raised the price by $20, they would have made out like bandits. At over $100, it's just a ripoff.

 

[AC1]

Quote:

Originally posted by bifcake Quite frankly, the whole 600 thing to me is a gimmick. Even if there are marginal improvements that are delivered by the 600's over 580's, the price increases should have been marginal as well. After all, how much more expensive can it be to produce a pair of 600's vs a pair of 580's even if you believe the driver matching thing. A $100? Hardly! I think that if Sennheiser raised the price by $20, they would have made out like bandits. At over $100, it's just a ripoff.

I would have gladly paid the extra money for the differences I heard between the 580 and 600... I had upgraded my system trying to get rid of the soft sound but never thought it could be the 580s problem and never really thougt about using the 600s since everybody had said it was so similar... But luckily I tried a pair of 600s out and found where the problem lie. It is not a "ripoff", I owned the 580s for over a year and if I knew of the sound I could get with the 600s I would not have hestitated to switch.

 

[purk]

I too...have the Senn HD-580. I know that the differences b/w the 580 and 600 is very small and subtle. I never heard the 600 b/f so I can't comment on that. I was wonder, if I have the META 42 amp, can I hear a different b/w the two phones???? I have very good ears...and If there lies differences...I should notice it. I've and impression that the diff. b/w the 580 and 600 are on a very highend equipment......how about through the META 42? Anyone? thx

 

[bifcake]

Purk,

I did a side by side comparison between 580 and 600 using a high end amp (Headroom Max monoblock) and Krell CD player. I heard literally NO DIFFERENCE between the two. I have very good ears and I hear no difference. I don't mean that differences were subtle, there was NO difference.

Others swear up and down there are differences, some claiming that the differences are very subtle, others say that the differences are substantial. I was very curious to hear them and I was looking for them. Alas, there were none.

 

[sTaTIx]

Quote:

Originally posted by bifcake Others swear up and down there are differences, some claiming that the differences are very subtle, others say that the differences are substantial. I was very curious to hear them and I was looking for them. Alas, there were none.

Bifcake, why don't we just regard the HD600's as "special edition" HD580's with special carbon-fibre encasement and just drop it? That way, the extra $100 is justified whether there is any sonic difference or not. I swear, if you keep up this agitator-type hellraising attitude, it will only mean trouble.

 

[taoster]

i dont know.. i always appreciate some opposing views and i do found bifcake's view on the senn interesting.

as long as its not forced down anybodys throats, post away!
just dont be like you know who from the cable posts..

 

[purk]

Bifcake,
I'm looking to get my hand on the Senn 600 in the future. Hopefully the differences (if there is) is very marginal. Still, the carbon fibre on the Senn HD-600 would compliment my blue Sony D-E900 very well. Thanks for your view on it though. But, the carbon fibre alone is worth the Wow factor.

PUrk

 

[bifcake]

Quote:

Originally posted by purk Bifcake, I'm looking to get my hand on the Senn 600 in the future. Hopefully the differences (if there is) is very marginal. Still, the carbon fibre on the Senn HD-600 would compliment my blue Sony D-E900 very well. Thanks for your view on it though. But, the carbon fibre alone is worth the Wow factor. PUrk

Purk, if you're willing to spend the money on carbon fibre, more power to you. Who am I to argue? You pays your monies, you takes your chances. I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Frankly, I think that even with the extra $100, the HD 600's are a great deal. I just find the 580's to be an AWESOME deal to the point of being a steal.

Statix, I'm stirring up trouble here because I'm looking to lead an audiophile revolution to take the high end gear from the haves and give it to the have nots. Audiophiles of the world, UNITE!!!