[EdipisReks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Whether or not they're new beasts is up to personal interpretation, but break-in phenomena -- notabene extending over more than 100 hours -- can easily be measured, at least with speaker drivers (in the form of significant TSP changes). Nothing special for a speaker builder like me and posted several times on Head-Fi. So you can save your DBT. .

now that is just being silly. sure, dynamic drivers change some with use, to a certain extent, and this can be measured. doesn't mean anyone can actually hear the difference

. personally, i'm pretty indifferent to burn in.

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kontai69 I ain't no engineer, but I read that the "theory" behind cable burn-in has to do with "conditioning" of the insulation (dielectric). The consensus is that teflon dielectrics take a long time to "burn-in."

It may be the consensus, but it's also a crock.

There's also a VERY important distinction to be made between theory and a hypothesis. By the definition of the word, most of what we're talking about are hypothesis. Whether or not they have absolutely any rational basis or would test true is another story.

 

[jagorev]

This would be pretty easy to test: if you already have a HD 201, spend $40 on a couple of new HD 201s, have one burn in, then get a friend to label the two 'A' and 'B' in a different room, then try to guess which one is burned in by comparing to the older HD 201. Or even better, get four, burn-in two of 'em, then try to match the two that were burned-in and the two that weren't. Anyone up for the challenge?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdipisReks now that is just being silly. sure, dynamic drivers change some with use, to a certain extent, and this can be measured. doesn't mean anyone can actually hear the difference .

Does that mean by «measured differences» you only accept data in the form of brainwaves of the concerned listeners or statistical numbers gained from DBT?

If your objection against (reported!) audible break-in phenomena is that there's no way for sound transducers to change their mechanical properties during the pretended period, it's meaningless after measured TSP changes with them, no? And there's really no giant step from those to the assumption of audible phenomena, is there?

Or what's the cause for the remaining skepticism?
.

 

[KZEE]

It's been my observation that the vast majority of the scientific/I don't believe in burn in/cables don't make a difference crowd are young and or relatively new to audio, and their audio equipment isn't very resolving.

At one time I too was somewhat sceptical over the whole cables sound different/burn-in thing, but as I've gained experience in audio, and as my equipment has grown more resolving, I now very easily and clearly hear differences in cables, and I also very easily and clearly hear my cables and gear change in sound as it burns in.

It's interesting to note that those that don't hear burn-in effects and cable differences are almost militant in attacking those that do hear those differences, and they're not above insulting and demeaning those that disagree with their views. It's also interesting to note that there's been more than a few times that I've observed the scientific crowd bending the truth and distorting facts when making their no burn-in/no cable difference arguments. Very strange.

 

[Daryn Alexander]

I think even the cheapest of headphones offer proof of burn in. It just takes a good ear. I tried a little experiment years back where I compared the sony's I had with brand new ones of the same model, leaving a small smark on the underside to look at after the test. I'd taken the pads off long ago, so there was really no distinguishing one for the other once you mixed them up. Successfully guessed which ones were new and which ones were old just by listening. Believer ever since.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Jazz and reks>I got to be totallly honest I don't know if it exists or not. Whether a headphone changes over a time period or whether I adjust to a headphone sound over time I am not 100% sure.

I would not argue with believers/non-believers as I don't know myself.

There are times when I do believe in it, i.e burn in (case of L3000's) and where it's a case of me getting use to the sound (he90's) so unfortunately I can't offer any opinion supporting either sides.

 

[tkam]

I think there is some physical change to headphone drivers in the first hours but I think burn-in has a lot to do with your ears and mind adjusting to their sound over a period of time as well.

 

[Edwood]

LOL, Team Proof?

What? You guys going to start posting charts, graphs, and DBT results now?

-Ed

 

[ATAT]

hell yes! just like

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZEE It's been my observation that the vast majority of the scientific/I don't believe in burn in/cables don't make a difference crowd are young and or relatively new to audio, and their audio equipment isn't very resolving.

You can have all the experience you want, it doesn't change the hard facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZEE It's interesting to note that those that don't hear burn-in effects and cable differences are almost militant in attacking those that do hear those differences, and they're not above insulting and demeaning those that disagree with their views. It's also interesting to note that there's been more than a few times that I've observed the scientific crowd bending the truth and distorting facts when making their no burn-in/no cable difference arguments. Very strange.

Unfortunately this is often true. However, the same can be said about many subjectivists. To an objectivist, they cannot understand how a subjectivist can deny the completely clear, obvious proof which has been proven time and time again. When all the empirical data and hard evidence in the world agree with you, you can get a little upset when people are still in denial.

And yes, while some objectivists may bend the truth, it's also worth pointing out that many subjectivists MAKE UP scientific explinations behind what they believe. That's where I draw the line. Spreading misinformation and bad science is just BAD.

 

[halcyon]

I'm not going to be a pompous a-hole and claim there is no such thing as burn-in effects at all.

However, in my own experience and based on the scientific knowledge I have come across, burn-in is imho:

- minor fluctuation in component tolerances due to mechanical use (i.e. real mechanical break-in)
- bigger fluctuations in perception, due to psychological baselining (i.e. you listen to it more, the more your hearing becomes attuned to it)
- minor fluctuations from unit-to-unit, because even mass production is not 100% homogenous (this can sometimes explain part of why new pair is different from old pair)
- actual damage to headphones (being broken is not a ON/OFF function, you can for instance damage the electrical parts in a way that slightly alters their characteristics, even without the headphones sounding completely broken)

Now, which of these factors is the over-riding one in each case?

It depends.

But in cases where faulty units, unit-to-unit tolerances and psychological adaptation have been ruled out, I believe the break-in to be less than "a night and day difference", which is often claimed in this forum.

But that's just me, after having listened to same pair of headphones (new vs old) with neglible differences and having the same pair (unit) of headphones transfer it's character completely on me, because of the day-to-day fluctuations in my own hearing.

That is, no change in headphone, but big change in perception, due to the NATURAL way our perception changes from day to day even when we don't want it to. This happens to all and it's quite normal.

YMMV, of course.

 

[cotdt]

you can break in headphones very quickly by playing bass very loud. it loosens the drivers. never tried this, but i think playing a 5Hz since wave at very loud volumes for 5 minutes is enough for a full break-in, so that way you can compare before and after. it eliminates day to day fluctuations in hearing.

 

[applebook]

I bought a pair of used HD600 last month that I assume are broken-in. When I compare them to the brand new set that I purchased last week, I do notice that the older cans are slightly more extended on top and sounds less congested. The differences aren't staggering like some claim that they are, but I am now a believer in breaking in cans and amps.

 

[Ant1]

One thing I've noticed in this forum is that - as headphone lovers - the higher quality the headphone, the more "burn-in" seems to be the accepted rule. Virtually everyone, after having bought, say, a Grado, is advised to burn them in to get the best from them. Same thing for Sennheiser - especially of a certain calibre like the 600 or the 880,.or AT, etc...
However, I don't remember anyone advising to burn-in those dreadful Apple earbuds for example! I don't dispute that there might be a difference in sound after whatever amount of burn-in, but is there not a certain amount of snobbery involved here?

Same thing for headphone amps, I've noticed...Definitely burn-in a Hornet or a SR-71. A Go-Vibe or a mint?...Ehhh...sure, why not?...

A.