[a.dickens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkon /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the most part, I think we are in agreement. I think the key point of disagreement is that I'm saying that if the logo is PROVIDED by the customer, then Fisher (or any company) would be in the clear for the same reason that Kinko's is able to stay in business. It is simply not reasonable to expect Fisher (or Kinko's) to determine if something they are given by a customer is copyrighted or not. And in most cases, it is simply not possible for them to make this determination.

I have a background in photography and know for a fact that reproducing copyrighted materials can land the reproducer in trouble. Photofinishers have faced copyright infringement lawsuits for reprinting copyrighted works. Try taking a professional photo to a photofinisher and having them reprint your photo. They will (or definitely SHOULD) ask for a copyright release or else they can face fines.

But again, the art would be a trademark, not a copyrighted work. A quick google of Fair Use of Trademarks brought me this:

"Therefore, a trademark owner may attempt to prevent others from using their mark in a number of situations such as when (1) the trademark is being used on competing goods or services or the (2) consumer would likely be confused by the dual use of the trademark."

I think that Fisher putting a UE logo on a pair of their customs would do both of those things, and if UE were to press the issue, I doubt Fisher's only defense of, "But he told me to" would stand up in court.


Good Luck in your wait for your customs. I hope your wait is short.

 

[newmanium]

To clarify - at most, it's a copyright violation. It's not illegal to violate copyright, you just expose yourself to getting sued by the copyright holder.

Illegal means (typically) that a state/federal prosecutor could come after you. In copyright, the only way you can get in trouble is if the copyright holder sues you. In this case, that would mean they would have to track down the end user, find proof that they violated the copyright, and then sue them to recover damages (which, in this case, would be tough to prove - it's a custom product, there's no "lost sale", especially if you're reshelling a Shure product to begin with!!).

So in this case, a single logo put on a personal product that isn't advertised anyplace - I'd say you're about as safe as can be. The fact that we're even having this conversation is so sad, too many corporate lawyers crafting the laws (can you believe "Happy Birthday" is still copyrighted!?!!!?).

 

[dweaver]

OK logo's aside how are everyone new to customs finding their IEM's? I am curious how they fit and if they are able to be used for long periods etc. Also does anyone have an offset ear canal and if so how do you find putting in custsoms and wearing them. I ask because I can not use double or trible tips as I can not easily access my ear canal to get them in and am worried I may not be a good candidate for customs because of this.

 

[Darkon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dweaver /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK logo's aside how are everyone new to customs finding their IEM's? I am curious how they fit and if they are able to be used for long periods etc. Also does anyone have an offset ear canal and if so how do you find putting in custsoms and wearing them. I ask because I can not use double or trible tips as I can not easily access my ear canal to get them in and am worried I may not be a good candidate for customs because of this.

What is an "offset ear canal" so I can figure out if I have one? Also, what do you mean by "double or triple tips"?

I'm still waiting for my customs, but I figured I'd mention something because it sounds different than what everyone else has done but might be relevant to some of you.

Rather than getting ear impressions made and sending those in, I sent in my "custom ear plugs" I had made at a gun show for ear protection when shooting. For $40 (maybe $45 now) they do the same sort of thing they do for impressions, but they use a more expensive material that doesn't shrink over time. While the "shooters plugs" don't include as much of the outer ear shape I've seen in some people's impressions, I believe they include all of the parts of the ear that are needed for the custom molds. Just to be sure, I emailed pictures of them to Kaysen for confirmation before sending everything in.

I know my shooters plugs fit comfortably, so if the customs fit the same way they should be fine. However, the shooters plugs are flexible and extend pretty far into the ear, so I'm hoping the customs (which are hard plastic) will be shorter so I don't have any problems getting them in. They received my stuff on 12/28 and I'm thinking I should have my customs by the end of this week or (more likely) sometime the following week.

 

[intoflatlines]

Probably means double and triple flange tips.

 

[FYJX]

Technically, anything that uses a copyrighted logo without the companies permission is violation. Do the companies have time to chase down every single product that has their logo on it but isn't there's? No.

 

[teds headfood]

i'm hoping to get mine back soon (end of week or so) i asked for the inearz logo to promote them when in airports and wherever i'm at.

 

[dweaver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoflatlines /img/forum/go_quote.gif Probably means double and triple flange tips.

Yes I meant double and triple flange tips that come with alot of IEM's. Some peoples ear canal is directly lined up with the outer ear opening or at least almost completely visible from the outer ear. In my case the ear canal is tucked up to the top of my outer ear opening hidden behind by part of the outer ear. This makes it impossible for me to get a double or triple flange into the actual canal and I am worried I will have a similar issue getting a custom tip into the ear canal as well.

 

[The Monkey]

Manufacturer A uses Manufacturer B's mark on Manufacturer A's product that it makes and markets. I'm interested in how/why that is not trademark infringement.

EDIT: Also, why all this discussion of "copyright"? Are we not talking about trademarks?

 

[chunkylover78]

I have two questions.

1) If you do need to refit, I know you would have to pay for shipping there but do you have to pay again for it to come back?

2) Does anyone have any experience with custom in ears when they have TMJ? TMJ is basically if you open your mouth past a point, your jaw actually pops sorta back into place. Since I do have TMJ, I was wondering would it affect the fitting since my jaw does shift when I open it.

 

[intoflatlines]

I don't think you will open your mouth wide enough to pop out your jaw while taking impressions.

I am also wondering how it works with shipping for refits.

 

[intoflatlines]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dweaver /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes I meant double and triple flange tips that come with alot of IEM's. Some peoples ear canal is directly lined up with the outer ear opening or at least almost completely visible from the outer ear. In my case the ear canal is tucked up to the top of my outer ear opening hidden behind by part of the outer ear. This makes it impossible for me to get a double or triple flange into the actual canal and I am worried I will have a similar issue getting a custom tip into the ear canal as well.

I would go to an audiologist and ask if you would be able to get custom monitors with your ears. It's really hard to tell just going by your description, and most (all) of us are not experts here. My best guess is that as long as you have adequate space in the area outside your ear canal (no idea what it's called) a monitor maker should be able to reach in your canal to get a good seal. Those triple/bi flange tips are straight and pretty much require a straight line in to get a good seal, while customs are pretty bent. Take a look at some of the impressions/shells and you'll see that the part that reaches your canal comes off at an angle.

 

[hollis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunkylover78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have two questions. 1) If you do need to refit, I know you would have to pay for shipping there but do you have to pay again for it to come back? 2) Does anyone have any experience with custom in ears when they have TMJ? TMJ is basically if you open your mouth past a point, your jaw actually pops sorta back into place. Since I do have TMJ, I was wondering would it affect the fitting since my jaw does shift when I open it.

I have TMJ and during my impressions I didn't need to open my mouth far enough to where this would be a concern.

I can't comment on wearing the customs though because mine probably aren't due back until sometime next week.

 

[minusthetom]

Ive just booked in at Amplifon in the UK to get my impressions made at a cost of £25. Boots (David Ormerod) wanted £40.

Im split between sending my westone 3's of to fisher or UM at the moment. However Im swaying towards fisher in hope that postage to and from the states maybe quicker. I'd be interested to hear from anyone in the uk who has dealt with either company.

 

[FYJX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunkylover78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have two questions. 1) If you do need to refit, I know you would have to pay for shipping there but do you have to pay again for it to come back? 2) Does anyone have any experience with custom in ears when they have TMJ? TMJ is basically if you open your mouth past a point, your jaw actually pops sorta back into place. Since I do have TMJ, I was wondering would it affect the fitting since my jaw does shift when I open it.

1-Usually refits are paid by the manufacturer for the trip back to you. Not 100% sure for Fisher hearing though.

2-Most likely it's not going to affect the results. You're only opening your mouth about an inch.