[Infoseeker]

The new Meta:

Exogal Comet (2.3vrms at max output, balanced)
w/ Ibasso PB5 Osprey

The fun bass boom of the PB5 Osprey.

 

[Painterspal]

Presumably I could use the PB5 from my standard dx320 with the LO from Amp14? Most of the discussion in this thread seems to be about the 320m, but I’m assuming I’d get a significant performance boost vs the unmodified amp 14?

 

[Whitigir]

Presumably I could use the PB5 from my standard dx320 with the LO from Amp14? Most of the discussion in this thread seems to be about the 320m, but I’m assuming I’d get a significant performance boost vs the unmodified amp 14?

Yes, the PB5 will be a great addition to your 320 with any amp that has line out, as it is toward many other DAP/products on the market.

 

[CharlyBrown]

I would think people pick PB5 to complement D16, rather than choosing one instead of the other I mean, PB5 is just an analog dual nutube amplifier, it needs an analog source to "amplify" the input. D16 is DAC/amp, you just need to feed it with a digital source, like your phone or another DAP, and it will do its D/A magic with its own internal amplification which gives you a ton of power. Now, relative to IEMs, where PB5 comes into the picture is to enhance/color the output of D16. PB5 has a warmer analog textured tonality with a huge soundstage expansion, and you can use it directly from D16 LineOut or even double-amp it from D16. I covered a lot of it in my review.

Since we are in iBasso thread and relative to iBasso products , if you want a simple solution for your smartphone, DC Elite will be all you need to use with IEMs to give you hi-end sound. If you don't want to drain your phone's battery, need higher output power, want more input/output flexibility with enhanced functionality, and enhanced analog tonality - you step up to D16. Then, if you want to add more coloring to your IEMs, you add PB5 to your audio chain, D16/PB5 have a great pair up synergy. If you are using full size more demanding headphones which require a more powerful source to enhance their audio performance (not just the tonality), adding PB5 to your source will be important as well.

The route of Smartphone/D16/PB5 vs DAP/D16/PB5 (btw, I was pleased with DX260/D16/PB5) will be up to your preference. I recently had a discussion with a few people who couldn't take using their smartphone as a digital source because of non-stop notifications which drive them crazy and interrupt music listening. So they prefer a dedicated DAP source. And then, there are others who enjoy their smartphone as a source, especially on the go for streaming where they don't have access to wifi. As they say, YMMV

Hi @twister6 thank you for your great review. Helps me a lot considering my next steps to cure the itch regarding novelty seeking

I have some questions for you (and @Whitigir - thanks for your helpful comments & everybody), if that’s ok.

First, I read a lot about using a phone with the D16 vs. a DAP like the DX260 and some people think the DX260 is better because of different/better USB implementation. I’m a little lost here because for me, USB is in this case only used to transport data (zeros and ones) from Source to DAC and then the DAC does It’s magic, transforming the digital information into analog information. What happens to the zeros and ones if one USB implementation is better than the other, resulting in better or worse sound in the end? And if there’s really a difference, how big is it? Will I miss a lot when using my phone? (notifications and other distractions are also to be considered, of course. But let's focus on sound reproduction). I read Coax should even be better?

My second question would be, what do you think about using the PB5 together with the SP3000 through line-out with 4.4mm connection? I know you didn’t test it in your pre-work for the review but maybe you heard this combination? Even if not, do you think it made sense using both together?

My use-case would be driving the IEMs and headphones in my signature, maybe adding the Storm in the future. I want to achieve „great sound“, by adding a bit of different secret sauce like tube timbre (especially to my HD800s and Utopia, maybe also Mentor) and different tuning from the D16 stand-alone plus adding the SP3000 which gave me many options to play with and some kind of future-proofness (is this really a word?) because the player/Android part is separated from the DAC/AMP parts. Also I read a lot of improved soundstage with the PB5 and I’m totally in love with soundstage, so this would be very welcome for me.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[Infoseeker]

I got nothing conversation worth to add. Just wanted to note something I did.



I tried my PB5 with my Gustard A22 DAC that has a higher 6vrms output.
I can set my gain to low and just keep it at a listening volume and it hasn't clipped.

When using the DAC with PB5 on high gain, the treble sizzle and lisp feeling seems to be exaggerated (so it expectedly clips).

 

[Whitigir]

Hi @twister6 thank you for your great review. Helps me a lot considering my next steps to cure the itch regarding novelty seeking

I have some questions for you (and @Whitigir - thanks for your helpful comments & everybody), if that’s ok.

First, I read a lot about using a phone with the D16 vs. a DAP like the DX260 and some people think the DX260 is better because of different/better USB implementation. I’m a little lost here because for me, USB is in this case only used to transport data (zeros and ones) from Source to DAC and then the DAC does It’s magic, transforming the digital information into analog information. What happens to the zeros and ones if one USB implementation is better than the other, resulting in better or worse sound in the end? And if there’s really a difference, how big is it? Will I miss a lot when using my phone? (notifications and other distractions are also to be considered, of course. But let's focus on sound reproduction). I read Coax should even be better?

My second question would be, what do you think about using the PB5 together with the SP3000 through line-out with 4.4mm connection? I know you didn’t test it in your pre-work for the review but maybe you heard this combination? Even if not, do you think it made sense using both together?

My use-case would be driving the IEMs and headphones in my signature, maybe adding the Storm in the future. I want to achieve „great sound“, by adding a bit of different secret sauce like tube timbre (especially to my HD800s and Utopia, maybe also Mentor) and different tuning from the D16 stand-alone plus adding the SP3000 which gave me many options to play with and some kind of future-proofness (is this really a word?) because the player/Android part is separated from the DAC/AMP parts. Also I read a lot of improved soundstage with the PB5 and I’m totally in love with soundstage, so this would be very welcome for me.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

There are plenty of posts about digital as you mentioned and questioned above. Simply put, it is coding and decoding. Similar to how human languages works, translate and deciphering from one to another. It would arrive at an assumed results and not the original or intentional one

Dx260 has the newer generation of FPGA processing chip and revamped architectures. In engineering language, it was made to succeed and superseded the previous generations

Sp3000 has no true line out. You can use PB5 with it, but it isn’t really optimized under technical points of views. Why worry if it sound good ? Just enjoy it

 

[MatW]

Sp3000 has no true line out.

I’ve been told that it does.

 

[CharlyBrown]

There are plenty of posts about digital as you mentioned and questioned above. Simply put, it is coding and decoding. Similar to how human languages works, translate and deciphering from one to another. It would arrive at an assumed results and not the original or intentional one

Dx260 has the newer generation of FPGA processing chip and revamped architectures. In engineering language, it was made to succeed and superseded the previous generations

Sp3000 has no true line out. You can use PB5 with it, but it isn’t really optimized under technical points of views. Why worry if it sound good ? Just enjoy it

Thank you. Still a little bit of a mystery to me why in this day and age it is still difficult to transport small amounts of data without problem but ok, one more thing to consider.

Regarding SP3000, I already read somewhere it wasn’t the ideal device for line-out, but never got an explanation, why?

I’ve been told that it does.

Another mystery… do you use the PB5 with the SP3000 or did you demo this combo? If yes, how do you like it?

(Edit) from headphones.com

„For analog outputs there is the standard 3.5mm single ended, as well as 4.4mm and 2.5mm balanced outputs. All of which can be set to act as line outs if you wish to use the SP3000 as a DAC only, rather than driving headphones.“

But they don’t say if it comes with any caveats.

 

[Kobe4ever]

Sp3000 has no true line out

It would be better to avoid writing false things

 

[twister6]

Thank you. Still a little bit of a mystery to me why in this day and age it is still difficult to transport small amounts of data without problem but ok, one more thing to consider.

Regarding SP3000, I already read somewhere it wasn’t the ideal device for line-out, but never got an explanation, why?



Another mystery… do you use the PB5 with the SP3000 or did you demo this combo? If yes, how do you like it?

(Edit) from headphones.com

„For analog outputs there is the standard 3.5mm single ended, as well as 4.4mm and 2.5mm balanced outputs. All of which can be set to act as line outs if you wish to use the SP3000 as a DAC only, rather than driving headphones.“

But they don’t say if it comes with any caveats.

Maybe Vince meant to say that SP3k doesn't have a dedicated LO, rather than a true line out. For example, Shanling DAPs don't have either one, a true or a dedicated LO. When you have the same shared headphone jack, you need to have either some switch or another way to bypass one signal path vs the other (output from the internal head-amp vs line-out output from the DAC). Some purists can hear the difference, majority probably won't. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the manufacturer's implementation, and both iBasso and A&K know how to handle it, while, as an example, Shanling was upfront saying they don't have a true LO. Don't have access to SP3k now, but make sure not to set its LO output voltage too high when using PB5.

Then, when it comes to the digital domain, yes, it is 1s and 0s, but those are represented with square waves where timing is very important. Noise, filtering, clock jitter, cable quality, etc. will contribute to errors where 1s can become 0s or vice versa. As an example, if you have too much noise on 0 it could be interpreted as 1.

 

[CharlyBrown]

Maybe Vince meant to say that SP3k doesn't have a dedicated LO, rather than a true line out. For example, Shanling DAPs don't have either one, a true or a dedicated LO. When you have the same shared headphone jack, you need to have either some switch or another way to bypass one signal path vs the other (output from the internal head-amp vs line-out output from the DAC). Some purists can hear the difference, majority probably won't. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the manufacturer's implementation, and both iBasso and A&K know how to handle it, while, as an example, Shanling was upfront saying they don't have a true LO. Don't have access to SP3k now, but make sure not to set its LO output voltage too high when using PB5.

Then, when it comes to the digital domain, yes, it is 1s and 0s, but those are represented with square waves where timing is very important. Noise, filtering, clock jitter, cable quality, etc. will contribute to errors where 1s can become 0s or vice versa. As an example, if you have too much noise on 0 it could be interpreted as 1.

Thank you @twister6

Does it make sense from your perspective to use the D16/PB5 stack with an iDevice? Or should I straight go to the DX260 as transport to have the best quality?

Please note, I don’t hear cable sound for example, so super minimal differences are not important for me.

 

[twister6]

Thank you @twister6

Does it make sense from your perspective to use the D16/PB5 stack with an iDevice? Or should I straight go to the DX260 as transport to have the best quality?

Please note, I don’t hear cable sound for example, so super minimal differences are not important for me.

My personal opinion on this matter, something I mentioned in the past, is why do you want to connect your iPhone or a smartphone to DAC/amp stack? To be bothered with notifications, to deal with emails, messages, texts, and other distractions? A smartphone and a dongle, like DC Elite, make sense on the go for a minimalistic audio setup. But when you are dealing with D16/PB5 stack, which is transportable rather than portable, might as well use a dedicated source. I really enjoyed DX260 connected to D16/PB5 and preferred the coax connection for both the sound quality and freeing up usb-c pots on DX260 and D16 so you can charge them during the playback.

 

[Whitigir]

My personal opinion on this matter, something I mentioned in the past, is why do you want to connect your iPhone or a smartphone to DAC/amp stack? To be bothered with notifications, to deal with emails, messages, texts, and other distractions? A smartphone and a dongle, like DC Elite, make sense on the go for a minimalistic audio setup. But when you are dealing with D16/PB5 stack, which is transportable rather than portable, might as well use a dedicated source. I really enjoyed DX260 connected to D16/PB5 and preferred the coax connection for both the sound quality and freeing up usb-c pots on DX260 and D16 so you can charge them during the playback.

Totally agreed! Additionally, if one primary usages is in ears, then a dongle would serve much better.

 

[FooFighter]

Totally agreed! Additionally, if one primary usages is in ears, then a dongle would serve much better.

Well I wouldn't copy that, otherwise 90% of Watercooler thread would be useless

 

[CharlyBrown]

My personal opinion on this matter, something I mentioned in the past, is why do you want to connect your iPhone or a smartphone to DAC/amp stack? To be bothered with notifications, to deal with emails, messages, texts, and other distractions? A smartphone and a dongle, like DC Elite, make sense on the go for a minimalistic audio setup. But when you are dealing with D16/PB5 stack, which is transportable rather than portable, might as well use a dedicated source. I really enjoyed DX260 connected to D16/PB5 and preferred the coax connection for both the sound quality and freeing up usb-c pots on DX260 and D16 so you can charge them during the playback.

I want to achieve versatility. If it works good with my SP3000, then this will remain my main source. If I want to enjoy the new album art feature in Apple Music without stutter or just want to do a quick listen of about 15-20 minutes between online-meetings while working from home, the iPhone is the perfect tool for me.

But if you say iPhone & SP3000 will degrade sound quality audibly, I would go the DX260/Coax route.

Btw. when using line-out with the SP3k to the PB5, what is the max voltage I should use? Or just go with the lowest available?

Totally agreed! Additionally, if one primary usages is in ears, then a dongle would serve much better.

I will use both IEMs and full size headphones and even with IEMs, I hope to enjoy the slight sound coloration of the PB5 and the extended soundstage I‘ve read about.