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Sep 20, 2020 at 5:48 AM Post #2,671 of 3,626
Just an idea: did you check that no eq was activated by the previous owner ?

I had this issue once in a shop when trying a DAP, my feelings were definitely biased...
 
Sep 20, 2020 at 6:01 AM Post #2,672 of 3,626
Just an idea: did you check that no eq was activated by the previous owner ?
I had this issue once in a shop when trying a DAP, my feelings were definitely biased...

Yeah no I checked of course the unit was reset properly so that's not it :)

Keep in mind I have "uncharacteristic" tastes and while many will just love the SP1000 for example I don't because of its upper treble presentation. Note that the Max to me is not agressive in the upper treble, it's just that the prominence in the mix is more pronounced so you get all the details delivered in a very refined manner but details on some recordings take precedence over what I consider to be the main musical message so to speak. This is where the LPGT shines IMHO, it doesn't push details they're here, just not overly so. LPGT is a bit understated in a way with a less energetic but more nuance presentation (at least at this stage of burn-in).

I hope that makes sense...

Edit : After discussing with @ExpatinJapan and reading his account of Max burn in and @jamato8 post I feel reassured it's just the burn in process. Need to be patient, not my biggest quality :p I like Damon's sentence : "It seems to be stitching itself together like Dr.Manhattan in the Watchmen comics."
 
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Sep 20, 2020 at 8:22 AM Post #2,673 of 3,626
Yeah no I checked of course the unit was reset properly so that's not it :)

Keep in mind I have "uncharacteristic" tastes and while many will just love the SP1000 for example I don't because of its upper treble presentation. Note that the Max to me is not agressive in the upper treble, it's just that the prominence in the mix is more pronounced so you get all the details delivered in a very refined manner but details on some recordings take precedence over what I consider to be the main musical message so to speak. This is where the LPGT shines IMHO, it doesn't push details they're here, just not overly so. LPGT is a bit understated in a way with a less energetic but more nuance presentation (at least at this stage of burn-in).

I hope that makes sense...

Edit : After discussing with @ExpatinJapan and reading his account of Max burn in and @jamato8 post I feel reassured it's just the burn in process. Need to be patient, not my biggest quality :p I like Damon's sentence : "It seems to be stitching itself together like Dr.Manhattan in the Watchmen comics."
I have tried LPGT and I agreed about what you found out here. The LPGT upper highs were aimed toward the similarities of Walkman and Sony, where as the Dx200/220/Max are aimed toward SP2K and AK styles of retrieval.

The burn in process only helps the graininess of the textures here (upper mids and high extensions). However, the presences and the details will remains the same

I am using HD800S and I love these details presents. This is yet another point why I would take it over any AK and said that “Max is the best portable player right out of the box and can wipe the floor against 1Z or SP2K”

In a live performances, cymbals and hi hats are prominences (enough to tell apart) while yet subtle as a blend within the whole pictures. They don’t sound like you have to be using a magnifier to look for their presents at all. The reason why many players rather tuned it toward a less agressiveness in it presences is because this part is the hardest to get right. Just like very deep sub bass problems but also different in a sense that if you have distortions here, the sibilants would kill everything, where as Deep sub bass distortions can easily be ignored and accepted by the human brains
When speaking of Sub bass distortions , the MAX also behaves in a way that I am very surprised to see, it doesn’t distort in complex passages that I have only seen by 2 occasions

A/ from the DMP Z1

B/ from high end Desktop systems with many upgrades, including a good Power sources (very hard here as power conditioners can make it lose details too)

I was so delighted and surprised that a mere player that can be carried around with me that cost $1899 can be this good. It has virtually 0 distortions and graininess in both ends of the spectrums Low-High , yet playing all the details and presentations very nicely. The Max is pushing the Sabres toward the very edges of capabilities even when compared to my DMP Z1 in these regards, the sections where it retrieves and presents the prominences minutes details in Deep lows and upper highs. The DMP Z1 is also pushing the AKM 4497EQ as well, and I have to conclude that the AKM subtleties is not as well received as the Sabres.....but realistically speaking, once you have pushed them both the to edges, the Burrbrown and Cirrus would be a better choices (more balances) .... grins
However, Ibasso has hugely succeeded in pushing Sabres to the edges!! That is for sure

Also, please bears in minds that when the players or the sources are this much capable, you better have a capable headphones or buds as well....because otherwise, you will be getting a lot of “Damn it!! Moments”. Usually multi drivers buds and incapable phones would do so :wink:....and don’t forget the cables
 
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Sep 20, 2020 at 8:39 AM Post #2,674 of 3,626
@Whitigir Thanks! Yeah I rolled cable and checked several pairings and using TOTL IEMs so that’s not the issue, that was not it...

So... reading @ExpatinJapan impressions and how gain levels affect the experience... So far I have run the Max with 135 DAC volume level with low gain with fairly sensitive custom IEMs

It was my mistake... switching to medium gain affect the frequency response and mids are fuller, highs more balanced in the mix... but
yet switching to high gain oh my things are now much much better with mids being full, bass are even better and highs remains beautiful and refined but much less prominent...

I had to lower DAC volume to 100 I know 135-150 is better but well things are now analogue sounding and full quite the bliss experience...

Sensitive multi BA IEMs are so deceptive they are so easy to run loud enough but so hard to juice properly and this is quite the demonstration here. Totally counter intuitive but glad I tried it :)
 
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Sep 20, 2020 at 8:47 AM Post #2,675 of 3,626
@Whitigir Thanks! Yeah I rolled cable and checked several pairings and using TOTL IEMs so that’s not the issue, that was not it...

So... reading @ExpatinJapan impressions and how gain levels affect the experience... So far I have run the Max with 135 DAC volume level with low gain with fairly sensitive custom IEMs

It was my mistake... switching to medium gain affect the frequency response and mids are fuller, highs more balanced in the mix... but
yet switching to high gain oh my things are now much much better with mids being full, bass are even better and highs remains beautiful and refined but much less prominent...

I had to lower DAC volume to 100 I know 135-150 is better but well things are now analogue sounding and full quite the bliss experience...

Sensitive multi BA IEMs are so deceptive they are so easy to run loud enough but so hard to juice properly and this is quite the demonstration here. Totally counter intuitive but glad I tried it :)
Definitely agreed that gains and DAC volume would affect the performances here :wink: one thing that I am not used to saying LOL! also is the first of it kinda to exhibit such Obvious behaviors
 
Sep 20, 2020 at 8:57 AM Post #2,676 of 3,626
Definitely agreed that gains and DAC volume would affect the performances here :wink: one thing that I am not used to saying LOL! also is the first of it kinda to exhibit such Obvious behaviors

Yeah first time this is as obvious maybe because the Max is much more powerful than your average DAP? Not sure why but the result is here for me...

The gain is AMP gain right?
 
Sep 20, 2020 at 8:57 AM Post #2,677 of 3,626
Definitely agreed that gains and DAC volume would affect the performances here :wink: one thing that I am not used to saying LOL! also is the first of it kinda to exhibit such Obvious behaviors
This is the living proof that the same dap can have diferent interpretations of what is better or worst, if I remember well in this thread you said the the best way to listen to the Max was with 150 in digital and low gain, because the other gains change the soundstage perception, isn't that?the Max is a awsome sounding transportable Dap, but don't reach IMO the refinement and natural feeling of the sp2000cu, and that is a 100% truth opinion, is not a 2 weeks or store try out, I have it both and ear both everyday
 
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Sep 20, 2020 at 9:34 AM Post #2,679 of 3,626
This is the living proof that the same dap can have diferent interpretations of what is better or worst, if I remember well in this thread you said the the best way to listen to the Max was with 150 in digital and low gain, because the other gains change the soundstage perception, isn't that?the Max is a awsome sounding transportable Dap, but don't reach IMO the refinement and natural feeling of the sp2000cu, and that is a 100% truth opinion, is not a 2 weeks or store try out, I have it both and ear both everyday

That's your truth :) I am curious to hear if the SP2000 can reconcile me with AK... SP1000 never did it for me but that's the beauty of this hobby, to each his own we have different personal preferences, taste in music, headphones and cables etc. I prefer the SA700 to the SE200 and in fact it's the AK DAP I prefer the most.

Anyway I didn't mean to start a controversy, the only thing I am saying is that gain does affect the frequency response for multi-BA IEMs on the Max more than any other DAP I have owned. In fact I owned DX200, DX200Ti and DX220 and never experienced something similar with those with AMP8 or any amp.

I feel high gain is strangely the best fit to my preferences (fuller mids and more balanced frequency response... vocals are amazing by the way) and this means I have to lower the DAC volume under the optimal levels or I either will sit in the very lower region of the volume pot (which I believe is not optimal either). This is totally counter intuitive so it's only luck (and @ExpatinJapan ramblings ;P ) that I found this out and I am very glad because the Max becomes so very much more analog sounding and I love it.

The good news is the background is so black that high gain = no hiss on my sensitive IEMs so all is perfectly well for me.
 
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Sep 20, 2020 at 9:58 AM Post #2,680 of 3,626
That's your truth :) I am curious to hear if the SP2000 can reconcile me with AK... SP1000 never did it for me but that's the beauty of this hobby, to each his own we have different personal preferences, taste in music, headphones and cables etc. I prefer the SA700 to the SE200 and in fact it's the AK DAP I prefer the most.

Anyway I didn't mean to start a controversy, the only thing I am saying is that gain does affect the frequency response for multi-BA IEMs on the Max more than any other DAP I have owned. In fact I owned DX200, DX200Ti and DX220 and never experienced something similar with those with AMP8 or any amp.

I feel high gain is strangely the best fit to my preferences (fuller mids and more balanced frequency response... vocals are amazing by the way) and this means I have to lower the DAC volume under the optimal levels or I either will sit in the very lower region of the volume pot (which I believe is not optimal either). This is totally counter intuitive so it's only luck (and @ExpatinJapan ramblings ;P ) that I found this out and I am very glad because the Max becomes so very much more analog sounding and I love it.

The good news is the background is so black that high gain = no hiss on my sensitive IEMs so all is perfectly well for me.
Love it!! Thanks for another confirmations on the high gains with 0 hisses on sensitive IEMs
 
Sep 20, 2020 at 11:04 AM Post #2,682 of 3,626
In this forum definitely nothing is learned, everyone has is own truth, and that's it

Not my meaning at all.

Thankfully we do learn a lot in these forums, just there is no absolute truth IMHO (never believed in X is better than Y) as there will always be subjectivity in the from of different perceptions / preferences so while there are objective things we can compare the end result is luckily so much more than can be reflected in pure technical attributes. Nobody owns the truth but only their truth that is also part subjective preferences that one can't always explain. It's good that we have diversity of gear and music to select from, in the end enjoying the musical experience is first and foremost :) But you know this and can enjoy both something like the Max and the SP2000. I sure want to have an audition of the SP2000, my mind is open!
 
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Sep 20, 2020 at 1:42 PM Post #2,685 of 3,626
My mind is really blown away at how different the frequency response from multi BA IEMs is out of the Max when going high gain, I have never experienced this big a change... eye opening or should I say ear opening :p If I want to open the signature a bit while not go all the way, mid gain is quite interesting as well... low gain sounds hollow and analytical compared to this :thinking:

Things are now so organic with beautiful body and vocals are just :heartbeat: while retaining impressive resolution and the speed and control as well as black background is just stunning... oh my!
 
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