iBasso DX100 Reference DAP - ES9018 inside

[kiteki]

 
Quote:

[size=medium]Going to clarify what I stated earlier:[/size]
 
[size=medium]Bitt Depth refers to the number of bits you have to capture audio. The easiest way to envision this is as a series of levels, that audio energy can be sliced at any given moment in time. With 16 bit audio, there are 65,536 possible levels. With every bit of greater resolution, the number of levels double. By the time we get to 24 bit, we actually have 16,777,216 levels. Remember we are talking about a slice of audio frozen in a single moment of time. [/size]
[size=medium]Now lets add our friend Time into the picture. That's where we get into the Sample Rate.[/size]
[size=medium]The sample rate is the number of times your audio is measured (sampled) per second. So at the red book standard for CDs, the sample rate is 44.1 kHz or 44,100 slices every second. So what is the 96khz sample rate? You guessed it. It's 96,000 slices of audio sampled each second. [/size]
 
[size=medium]Space required for of stereo digital audio [/size]
[size=medium]Bit Depth Sample Rate Bit Rate File Size of one stereo minute File size of a three minute song [/size]
[size=medium]16 44,100 1.35 Mbit/sec 10.1 megabytes 30.3 megabytes[/size]
[size=medium]16 48,000 1.46 Mbit/sec 11.0 megabytes 33 megabytes [/size]
[size=medium]24 96,000 4.39 Mbit/sec 33.0 megabytes 99 megabytes [/size]
[size=medium]mp3 file 128 k/bit rate 0.13 Mbit/Sec 0.94 megabytes 2.82 megabytes [/size]
[size=medium]So you see how recording at 24/96 more than triples your file size. Lets take a 3 minute multi-track song and add up the numbers. Just to put the above into greater relief, I included the standard MP3 file's spec. [/size]
 
[size=medium]Hard disk requirements for a multi-track 3 minute song [/size]
[size=medium]Bit depth/sample rate number of mono tracks size per mono track size per song songs per 20 gigabyte hard disk songs per 200 gigabyte hard disk[/size]
[size=medium]16/44.1 8 15.1 megs 121 megs 164 1640[/size]
[size=medium]16/48 8 16.5megs 132 megs 150 1500[/size]
[size=medium]24/96 8 49.5 megs 396 megs 50 500[/size]
[size=medium]16/44.1 16 15.1 megs 242megs 82 820[/size]
[size=medium]16/48 16 16.5 megs 264 megs 74 740[/size]
[size=medium]24/96 16 49.5 megs 792 megs 24 240[/size]
 
[size=medium]you should be noting two things now:[/size]
[size=medium]1. Recording at 24/96 yields greatly increased audio resolution-over 250 times that at 16/44.1 [/size]
[size=medium]2. Recording at 24/96 takes up roughly 3 1/4 times the space than recording at 16/44.1[/size]
 
[size=medium]Now lets get to the subjective side of how music sounds at these different bit depths and sample rates. No one can really quantify how much better a song is going to sound recorded at 24/96. Just because a 24/96 file has 250 times the audio resolution does not mean it will sound 250 times better; it won't even sound twice the quality. In truth, your non-musically inclined friends may not even notice the difference. You probably will, but don't expect anything dramatic. Can you hear the difference between an MP3 and a wave file? If so, you will probably hear the difference between different sample rates. For example, the difference between 22.05 kHz and 44.1 kHz is very clear to most music lovers. A trained ear can tell the difference between 32khz and 44.1. But when 44.1 and 96kHz are compared it gets real subjective. But lets try to be a little objective here.[/size]
 
[size=medium]Lets talk about sample rate and the Nyquist Theory. This theory is that the actual upper threshold of a piece of digital audio will top out at half the sample rate. So if you are recording at 44.1, the highest frequencies generated will be around 22kHz. That is 2khz higher than the typical human with excellent hearing can hear. Now we get into the real voodoo. Audiophiles have claimed since the beginning of digital audio that vinyl records on an analog system sound better than digital audio. Indeed, you can find evidence that analog recording and playback equipment can be measured up to 50khz, over twice our threshold of hearing. Here's the great mystery. The theory is that audio energy, even though we don't hear it, exists as has an effect on the lower frequencies we do hear. Back to the Nyquist theory, a 96khz sample rate will translate into potential audio output at 48khz, not too far from the finest analog sound reproduction. This leads one to surmise that the same principle is at work. The audio is improved in a threshold we cannot perceive and it makes what we can hear "better". Like I said, it's voodoo.[/size]

 
Thanks for the informative post Mischa.
 
I think downsampling to 22.05kHz or 32kHz sounds horrible.
 
I have a michael jackson vinyl rip in and the beats at the start of Bille Jean "dun~... tsch~... dun~... tsch~...." extend up to 50kHz or so (with upsampling on the other hand, it's pure silence between 22kHz and 100kHz, IIRC).
 
So, one can only wonder what happens with xylophones... not that I'm very interested in solo xylophone recordings lol.
 
 
If you have links to some of the voodoo, I'm sure some people in this thread will be interested, since they are buying a 24/192 DAP after all, and want to hear some of that 69.5kHz Doof Doof ~
 
I know one Voodoo theory is we can hear the 20~100kHz material through our face.
 
Apparently only a simple test is required, if you are listening to a natural environment, like a rainforest, and you cover your face with your hands, does the sound change?  IF yes... then you can hear music... through your face.
 
 
 

 

[wolfen68]

Wow...I just stumbled on to the DX100.  Have my nearly ten year old iriver H140's finally been replaced?  Looking forward to initial reviews and here's to hoping this is a quality product.

 

[Jalo]

Hold on to your seat, here is what I get from Ibasso when I wake up this morning:
 
"Hi,
 
Thank you for your email.  According to the chip's datebase, it supports up to 32GB. But there is rumor that it can support 64GB as well. But we dont have the 64GB card, and cant verify this.
 
We released the DX100's information on Dec 3rd, 2011. We will release the DX100 in a few days, and it will meet our 45 days promise.
 
Sincerely
iBasso Audio"
 
Thank you Ibasso, I love you.  They are so nice, responding to e-mail even during weekend.  Hopefully by Monday we'll have the final spec. and a firm release date?

 

[lee730]

Excellent Jalo. Maybe this player will be out within a few weeks after all.
 
Quote:

Hold on to your seat, here is what I get from Ibasso when I wake up this morning:
 
"Hi,
 
Thank you for your email.  According to the chip's datebase, it supports up to 32GB. But there is rumor that it can support 64GB as well. But we dont have the 64GB card, and cant verify this.
 
We released the DX100's information on Dec 3rd, 2011. We will release the DX100 in a few days, and it will meet our 45 days promise.
 
Sincerely
iBasso Audio"
 
Thank you Ibasso, I love you.  They are so nice, responding to e-mail even during weekend.  Hopefully by Monday we'll have the final spec. and a firm release date?

 

 

[underhysteria]

will you guys go for if it fetches a retail price of over 700USD?

 

[lee730]

Quote:

will you guys go for if it fetches a retail price of over 700USD?

I would most likely wait for reviews and comparison to the all the other audiophile DAPs at that price range. But if it really is that good I would get it to pair with my next Custom IEM for sure.

 

[wolfen68]

I'll wait for reviews also...but I'm specially concerned about durability, reliability and software/GUI and bugs.  First runs of players from companies trying it for the first time don't always have a great record (**bringing back memories of my Archos Jukebox**).

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Excellent!  It wouldn't surprise me if they worked half days on Saturdays though - that's typical practice in China.

 

[townes]

I don't care about the price, but I really hope it will work with 64GB cards. Hats off to iBasso anyway, for releasing such an innovative product.

 

[Anathallo]

Thank you for posting something actually on-topic!  

 
So we can expect information by Tuesday (the 17th) at the latest!  Exciting! 
 
Quote:

Hold on to your seat, here is what I get from Ibasso when I wake up this morning...

 

 

[tds101]

Thanks Jalo!!! Great news for my morning! Now, all we need is pricing to complete the info process on this baby,...

 

[Jalo]

Mischa, Kiteki, and Ben, If I may approach the subject matter from a neuroscience perspective and hopefully to add some light into the subject of voodoo and frequency.  First of all, in audio circle, it has been taken almost as universal truth that we cannot hear below 20 hertz hence the limit of 20-20khz exists. In fact, we know at 20 hertz or below it is more like a feel than sound.  So it misled many to conclude that whatever we cannot hear has no use to us or it doesn't matter since we cannot process it.   However, it has been proven time and again that the human brain can and has the ability to process and discern down to 0.1 hertz and that a change from or a difference of 0.1 hertz to 0.2 hertz can activate or evoke a different EEG or brain response pattern or emotional feel in a person.  This has been published frequently by the works done in the field of EEG biofeedback or neurofeedback.  In neurofeedback, if a person is trained to recognize the feel at 0.1 hertz and then the person is asked to respond to the limit of 0.2 hertz, the change is immediately recognizeable to the trained person. Our brain is that sensitive and probably more so than any existing measuring device or scope.  Therefore when I frequently read about comments that said the difference of a few hertz doesn't matter when it has been proven that it can have an impact on our emotional response and that we can recognize the difference of even as small as 0.1 hertz anywhere in the frequency spectrum and beyond.  Furthermore, I believe this also led to the overly used concept of placebo effect in our many arguments on the subject of cable difference or burn-in effect and others etc. The argument usually goes like since objectively we are not able to measure any "single dimensional" differences, therefore, if a person hears something difference between two cables or two bitrate, it must be placebo.  Not that placebo effect doesn't exist, but scientifically before we attribute something to placebo we better realize the limitation of our measuring methods.  And in this case science has proven that the brain can process a lot more than we can measure.
 
Second, an orchestra has somewhere around 50 to 80 instruments and with that it can make endless numbers of music without repeating itself.  The human brain has over 10 trillion synaptic connections, and each inhibiting or dysinhibiting firing of each synaptic connection forms a unit of brain signature to an external or internal event.  The combination of the firing of the trillion synaptic connections form the basis of our various emotions, knowing and consciousness. In fact, we have a separate brainwave signature or brainwave composition to a similar song that plays at 16/44 and 24/96.  Or that we can discern the difference between the same songs that has a high noise level from that with a low noise level even though objectively they may measure the same.  That is also why a mother of a monzygotic twins can tell the difference between the twin when scientifically and genetically they are the same.  Or we can tell the difference between frozen orange juice and fresh squeeze orange even though their composition is the same.  The link that Kiteki refers to show difference of pre-echo stage and I believe that alone will cause the brain to notice the difference on just that one factor.  But music is a complex and multidimensional event to the brain.  The brain is exceptional in its capability to notice minute difference even down to change below 0.1 percent.  That is why we are able to tell abstract concept like house sound, sound stage, body, headroom, etc.

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

I'll wait for reviews also...but I'm specially concerned about durability, reliability and software/GUI and bugs.  First runs of players from companies trying it for the first time don't always have a great record (**bringing back memories of my Archos Jukebox**).

In terms of durability, one of the moderator on a chinese headfi forum (erji.com) actually got to listen to the DX100 and visited the manufacturing facility commented that Ibasso's (or Mini Audio as it is to the Asia market) that Ibasso manufacturing capability is actually capable to produce at a matching level with that of the top Japanese manufacturing process.  That really instill much confidence in me.
 

 

[calipilot227]

Quote:

Hold on to your seat, here is what I get from Ibasso when I wake up this morning:
 
"Hi,
 
Thank you for your email.  According to the chip's datebase, it supports up to 32GB. But there is rumor that it can support 64GB as well. But we dont have the 64GB card, and cant verify this.
 
We released the DX100's information on Dec 3rd, 2011. We will release the DX100 in a few days, and it will meet our 45 days promise.
 
Sincerely
iBasso Audio"
 
Thank you Ibasso, I love you.  They are so nice, responding to e-mail even during weekend.  Hopefully by Monday we'll have the final spec. and a firm release date?

 

 

[wolfen68]

Quote:

In terms of durability, one of the moderator on a chinese headfi forum (erji.com) actually got to listen to the DX100 and visited the manufacturing facility commented that Ibasso's (or Mini Audio as it is to the Asia market) that Ibasso manufacturing capability is actually capable to produce at a matching level with that of the top Japanese manufacturing process.  That really instill much confidence in me.
 

Good to hear...I hope that ends up being the case.  So far I've been happy with ibasso (I own and enjoy the the D12 and DB-1), but a portable player is a different animal with a lot of additional potential issues.