[mulveling]

Just something I've been wondering recently. I have a very high opinion of my new amp & cans (SinglePower SDS & L3000), and I think perhaps they could really really shine with a better media format. My current source is a Meridian G08, which of course only does redbook. So what I'd want is an SACD player with SACD playback that significantly bests the G08's redbook - otherwise this would be an exercise in futility. I'm not so concerned about its redbook playback, as I'm not expecting it to fully replace the G08.

I know sources can come down to subjective tastes, but for now I'm more concerned about comparing overall technical merit. I'm just looking for a variety of opinions and ideas here. What's the lowest price range I should be looking at for an SACD player that meets these criteria? Any specific model recommendations? I would almost certainly buy used (audiogon/here) to maximize value per buck. This time I really don't want to spend nearly as much as I did for the G08 (purchased new), and if the pricing starts to creep up on that territory my interest will be put on hold for quite a while.

Edit: I'm not too keen on mods (as in modifications, not moderators

), so please keep that in mind. Thanks!

 

[Welly Wu]

http://www.stereophile.com/digitalso...views/705ayre/

Or

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...right999ES.htm
ESPECIALLY THIS REVISED ONE: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...ightupdate.htm

 

[mulveling]

Welly thanks for the links. However, the 2nd link reminds me of something I forgot to mention in my first post - I am irrationally biased against extensive mods on pretty much anything, SACD players included. So, I'd rather hear recommendations and opinions on stock units

 

[newmanoc]

$2900 recently used on audiogon: an Esoteric DV-50 (new around $6000). Many like the redbook playback greatly (not my favorite, but undeniably good). The SACD playback is truly exceptional, however.

 

[Canman]

The only thing I've heard over headphones that's significantly better than the G08 is the EMM Labs DAC6e fed by the EMM Phillips SACD-1000 transport. It's incredible in every attribute, with redbook or SACD. Thanks bozebuttons

 

[Welly Wu]

I was exactly the same way as you are now, but I decided against letting my own unfounded biases and prejudices get in the way of the most important criteria for me in selecting Hi-Fi equipment: sound quality. I was skeptical of how much modified units rank against name brand Hi-Fi brands such as Meridian or Ayre Acoustics. However, it is true that if you send a stock unit to a highly skilled and gifted mod house, then you will get outstanding sound quality for a fraction of the price of name brand equipment. I would hate for you to miss out on achieving your stated goal of SA-CD playback superior to Red Book CD performance out of the Meridian G08 just because it happens to be modified. You should consult with BANGPOD and Tom Hankins about ModWright components. His SWL 9.0 earned the 6moons Blue Moon Award while Mr. Robert Levi wrote that his ModWright SONY DVP-NS 999ES is superior than the LINN Unidisk 2.1 at Positive Feedback Online magazine; he ain't no newbie when it comes to high quality and affordable Hi-Fi equipment. Go to http://www.high-endaudio.com/ and do some reading about why modified components deliver unusual bang for your buck sound quality at a fraction of the price of name brand Hi-Fi equipment. Then, let us discuss it in detail as I can attest to how awesome my ModWright LLC Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi really is.

I am a highly discriminating Hi-Fi audiophile and I will absolutely upgrade equipment that doesn't satisfy me deeply on a musical level on whim because I have the financial means to do so and have done so. I do not expect to upgrade my ModWright LLC Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi for the next 2 - 3 years until there is a universal standard and high definition universal player that can handle everything my current one can do plus HD-DVD + SONY Blu-Ray playback; that will take a few years to be designed and manufactured.

Take the time to read my included links and think about what I am recommending to you. I know that I am making excellent recommendations that will surpass your wildest expectations if you are willing to read into my words and fork over the money for the equipment. Thank you very much for your time!

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman The only thing I've heard over headphones that's significantly better than the G08 is the EMM Labs DAC6e fed by the EMM Phillips SACD-1000 transport. It's incredible in every attribute, with redbook or SACD. Thanks bozebuttons

Yeah, I have to agree that Tom's setup is quite superb.

 

[TheGhostWhoWalks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newmanoc $2900 recently used on audiogon: an Esoteric DV-50 (new around $6000). Many like the redbook playback greatly (not my favorite, but undeniably good). The SACD playback is truly exceptional, however.

Yep. And from what i've heard the mods from Referance Audio Mods (I know you said you don't like mods, but theirs are truly exceptional from what i've heard) take it to even another level. If not, there's a ton of used DV-50s on sale at Audiogon ranging from around $2.5k to $4k (for a new, traded in unit).

Perhaps way out of your price range, but in case you're interested there's also a Classe Omega SACD that is supposedly superb in both redbook and SACD. I only got about 20 minutes with it, but it DID totally impress me. You might be able to talk the guy guy $1,000 or so. It's been up there for a while.

The review from Stereophile gave them a head to head review (kinda) and said (in SACD mode) the Esoteric sounded like "the analog master tapes" while the Classe sounded like "a superb LP player". I think they ended with "heads you win. Tails you win."

Quite frankly i don't think you could go wrong with either (or many others). When you get into this high of price level it isn't so much "who's better" and more like "which do you prefer".

 

[TheGhostWhoWalks]

By the way, how much did your SDS cost and how does it sound? Right now i'm running my R10s through a Supra and i've been thinking about upgrading to the Maestro or SDS sometime in the near future. Right now i'm concentrated on upgrading my source as well though.

 

[BANGPOD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling Just something I've been wondering recently. I have a very high opinion of my new amp & cans (SinglePower SDS & L3000), and I think perhaps they could really really shine with a better media format. My current source is a Meridian G08, which of course only does redbook. So what I'd want is an SACD player with SACD playback that significantly bests the G08's redbook - otherwise this would be an exercise in futility. I'm not so concerned about its redbook playback, as I'm not expecting it to fully replace the G08. ... Edit: I'm not too keen on mods (as in modifications, not moderators ), so please keep that in mind. Thanks!

mulveling --

If you want SACD that significantly bests the Meridian G08...
It will cost more than the G08, unless you go the modification route.
That is generally how universal players are with today's technology.
However, the Modwright 999ES should hardly be considered "universal."

A/B'ing a Basic Truth'ed 999ES and a Meridian G07 (both my friend's)...
I almost always preferred SACD on the 999es to Redbook on the G07!
The few times that I didn't, it was obvious that the SACD was sub-par.
From my impressions of the G08, the results would still be the same, IMHO.

That is why I decided to buy the 999ES over the G08 (which was my favorite).
And since the 999ES costed 56% of the G08's retail, I WAS SOLD, BABY!
Dan Wright knows enough about audio to work at high-end audio companies.

May I quote the Positive-Feedback Reviews...

"The ModWright/Sony 999ES transcends any digital component built by a single manufacturer because no manufacturer has the cumulative knowledge—or the innate desire—to build a device like this. Modwright piggybacks on Sony's efforts to create an accurate unit with high build quality, then replaces all things analog with extraordinary devices. In this way, ModWright avoids high construction costs and keeps the mods extremely affordable."

"1. This is the first CD/SACD player to image correctly. It improves upon my Benz Ruby phono cartridge, nailing instruments in space with extraordinary tight images. It allows you to zero in on anything and everything. Good-sounding CDs will image like never before, and your best will rise like Frankenstein's monster! Great CDs sound as precise as SACDs, just less textured and airy, and the best SACDs sound like the real McCoy.

2. This is the first CD/SACD player to get spatial cues right. It separates and darkens the spaces between instruments. It also reduces, even eliminates, the phase distortion that distorts perspective. It focuses the sound into sharp relief. It is a revelation.

3. This is one of the first CD/SACD players that recreates depth correctly, with no black hole in the center. You hear the venue in which the recording took place.

4. This is the most accurate player I've ever heard. There is a complete lack of the coloration and blending of highs that I hear elsewhere. The unit has NO perceptible sound of its own, and it has a tube output!

5. This is one of the most musical players in the world. Play a Mercury/Phillips golden oldie CD and you will hear classic Telefunken microphone sound. Try your favorite piano disc and get ready to be shocked. It is reality, assuming your disc is good. It won't make anything up, so feed it only the best. This is not your father's musical sound, which was far more colored. I have never heard such truth in digital musical reproduction. Textures on first-rate discs are spot on, and musical colors are absolutely natural.

6. This CD/SACD player has the best low-level definition that I have ever heard. You can turn down your system to 50% of its normal level and still hear every subtle detail. I have never heard any digital component, at any price, in any system, that can duplicate this feat."

Enough said -- if you have any other question, feel free to PM me!

BANGPOD

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANGPOD mulveling -- If you want SACD that significantly bests the Meridian G08... It will cost more than the G08, unless you go the modification route. That is generally how universal players are with today's technology. However, the Modwright 999ES should hardly be considered "universal." A/B'ing a Basic Truth'ed 999ES and a Meridian G07 (both my friend's)... I almost always preferred SACD on the 999es to Redbook on the G07! The few times that I didn't, it was obvious that the SACD was sub-par. From my impressions of the G08, the results would still be the same, IMHO. That is why I decided to buy the 999ES over the G08 (which was my favorite). And since the 999ES costed 56% of the G08's retail, I WAS SOLD, BABY! Dan Wright knows enough about audio to work at high-end audio companies. May I quote the Positive-Feedback Reviews... "The ModWright/Sony 999ES transcends any digital component built by a single manufacturer because no manufacturer has the cumulative knowledge—or the innate desire—to build a device like this. Modwright piggybacks on Sony's efforts to create an accurate unit with high build quality, then replaces all things analog with extraordinary devices. In this way, ModWright avoids high construction costs and keeps the mods extremely affordable." "1. This is the first CD/SACD player to image correctly. It improves upon my Benz Ruby phono cartridge, nailing instruments in space with extraordinary tight images. It allows you to zero in on anything and everything. Good-sounding CDs will image like never before, and your best will rise like Frankenstein's monster! Great CDs sound as precise as SACDs, just less textured and airy, and the best SACDs sound like the real McCoy. 2. This is the first CD/SACD player to get spatial cues right. It separates and darkens the spaces between instruments. It also reduces, even eliminates, the phase distortion that distorts perspective. It focuses the sound into sharp relief. It is a revelation. 3. This is one of the first CD/SACD players that recreates depth correctly, with no black hole in the center. You hear the venue in which the recording took place. 4. This is the most accurate player I've ever heard. There is a complete lack of the coloration and blending of highs that I hear elsewhere. The unit has NO perceptible sound of its own, and it has a tube output! 5. This is one of the most musical players in the world. Play a Mercury/Phillips golden oldie CD and you will hear classic Telefunken microphone sound. Try your favorite piano disc and get ready to be shocked. It is reality, assuming your disc is good. It won't make anything up, so feed it only the best. This is not your father's musical sound, which was far more colored. I have never heard such truth in digital musical reproduction. Textures on first-rate discs are spot on, and musical colors are absolutely natural. 6. This CD/SACD player has the best low-level definition that I have ever heard. You can turn down your system to 50% of its normal level and still hear every subtle detail. I have never heard any digital component, at any price, in any system, that can duplicate this feat." Enough said -- if you have any other question, feel free to PM me! BANGPOD

One word of caution. Mr. Levi is a great guy, but just like any reviewer/audiophile, he has his own tastes, which may or may not be your Thang. I actually had a chance to listen to Mr. Levi's system in his listening room with Modwright 999 (just before the "latest" mod) w/ his Avalon Eiodolons, and just keep in mind that his tastes seem to favor a harmonic, rich, warm, smoooth sound. In other words, TUBES.

I love tubes myself, at least somewhere in there, but my and others' tastes may differ from his.

One possible recommendation for a universal player that sounds great without mods would be McCormack UDP-1. GREAT sound on redbook and SACD/DVD-A, not quite AS great as Meitner, but what is?

 

[BANGPOD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L One word of caution. Mr. Levi is a great guy, but just like any reviewer/audiophile, he has his own tastes, which may or may not be your Thang. I actually had a chance to listen to Mr. Levi's system in his listening room with Modwright 999 (just before the "latest" mod) w/ his Avalon Eiodolons, and just keep in mind that his tastes seem to favor a harmonic, rich, warm, smoooth sound. In other words, TUBES. I love tubes myself, at least somewhere in there, but my and others' tastes may differ from his. One possible recommendation for a universal player that sounds great without mods would be McCormack UDP-1. GREAT sound on redbook and SACD/DVD-A, not quite AS great as Meitner, but what is?

Jon L --

mulveling knows that everyone is entitled to his or her own humble opinion.
mulveling knows that my audio preferences may or may not differ from others'.
Therefore, differing recommendations come with differing audio preferences.
mulveling is aware of Richard Levi's tastes (Welly Wu linked to both reviews).
You say that you love tubes, but we need to concentrate on mulveling only.
By the same token, the McCormack UDP-1 is "great" in your humble opinion.
By the same token, some audiophiles may prefer the UDP-1 to the Meitner.

In one's humble opinion is attached to every single post on Head-Fi.org...
If one does not assume that, then posts such as yours tend to come up.
Apparently, a number of audiophiles agree with/second my recommendation.
Can we stick to recommending to and not recommending for mulveling?

mulveling --

With the above aside, I can assure you that Modwright's does quality work.
The Signature Truth'ed 999ES might be the cure for your "irrational" bias

.

But that is for you and you alone to decide...

BANGPOD

 

[tom hankins]

IMO its not just the SACD section of the Modwright 999ES that surpasses the G08, but also the redbook.
Its to bad you dont go for the mods because the modified Shanling T200 from www.underwoodhifi.com is really, really, nice. Plus he's in the area so you can probably demo one.
www.6moons.com had a review awhile back.
BTW, glad you were able to score your amp.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANGPOD Jon L -- In one's humble opinion is attached to every single post on Head-Fi.org... If one does not assume that, then posts such as yours tend to come up. Apparently, a number of audiophiles agree with/second my recommendation. Can we stick to recommending to and not recommending for mulveling? BANGPOD

What are you talking about?

Mulveling was asking for an SACD player without mods, and I recommend stock UDP-1 and you recommend a highly-modified tube player. I know the Modwright sounds great (where did I say it doesn't?), but you seem to be taking offense that I describe it as "harmonic, rich, warm, smoooth," which puzzles me.

Do you believe your opinion is "better" than mine and you know what's best for Mulveling?

 

[BANGPOD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L What are you talking about? Mulveling was asking for an SACD player without mods, and I recommend stock UDP-1 and you recommend a highly-modified tube player.

I continued to recommend a highly-modified tube player because of the following:
"I am irrationally biased against extensive mods on pretty much anything, SACD players included."

The key words in the above quote are "irrationally biased."

If you still do not understand, check your definition of "irrational."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L I know the Modwright sounds great (where did I say it doesn't?), but you seem to be taking offense that I describe it as "harmonic, rich, warm, smoooth," which puzzles me.

I am taking offense because you started your post with "one word of caution."
I am also taking offense because "harmonic, rich, warm, smooth" is not quite accurate.
Those are hardly the first words to come to mind when describing the Modwright 999ES.

How many hours have you listened to the 999ES? Did you do any A/B'ing?
I have, extensively -- I have compared it to mulveling's source as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L Do you believe your opinion is "better" than mine and you know what's best for Mulveling?

Well in reference to the Modwright 999ES, I guess that is exactly what I am saying.

BANGPOD