I tunes- what is peoples beef with it?

[shigzeo]

I am not sure why you bring up iSheep, an item which was commercialised by Sansa in order to 'force' users to think that iPod, iTunes, and Apple are some sort of cult. If anyone has ever forced anyone to buy things, it isn't Apple in this context.

Saying that, I used to hate all of the above, so I understand your sentiments. My world was MD till 2006 or so when I bought my first solid-state dap: Meizu M6, then the Cowon D2, some iRivers, and lastly solid-state walkmans.

I have no idea why you bring up ATRAC as a feature. No DAP players except Sony and MD players from other companies (no longer in production) support that proprietary format. The only non-standard proprietary format Apple support is ALAC, and for the professional market, AIFF, but that is another story all together.

Sony have pushed customers into ATRAC since 1992, making few changes to the codec, but marketing it through partisan reviews as the best since 1996, most of which have been debunked in public, open listening tests which are not hardware dependent.

Sony continue to make good hardware which has good sound, but they approach the market as if it were still the 1990's and a company had to do all it could to reign it in to make money. Apple, Microsoft, Sony; each company which has a hand in commercial production of music has to protect their own investments.

FLAC can be used in iTunes, so too can OGG with plug ins. From iTunes, you can transcode to other formats from those two if you want (I do this if I decide to rip a CD into FLAC).

I miss the all-in-one feel of Foobar, but only for recording and a few low-level editing features; for playback it is a far cry from the ease of use of iTunes, which is what I want. I can get to any CD I want in about 5 seconds, manage playlists, EQ - everything simply. And while iTunes takes up 75 MB of memory in the background (admittedly, a lot), it isn't much worse than Winamp. I have it on all the time unless doing intense graphics editing.

I am not a sheep. I am a customer who chose iTunes after hating Apple for a long time. No one forced me to buy an iPod; no one forced me to use iTunes. Had I stayed with Sony and wanted to use gapless playback, I would have to buy Windows and use Sonic Stage AND use ATRAC. If anyone forces a hand, it isn't Apple.

I do wish there was a slimmer music-only version however; one which could be used for minimum memory footprint and run quickly from any computer, even Windows. I also wish it would support recording from line inputs and allow low-level integration of AAC Gain and EQ presets to be transferred to the iPod or made there. Apart from those issues, it is neither the devil, a shepherd, or Christ; it is merely a good audio/video/app/rental/do everything piece of software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGHMW /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...and it does NOT support ATRAC either, another reason not to get it, or to join the flock of iSheep who are brainwashed into getting an iPod. Get a Sony Walkman instead... especially an NW-HD5 (if you can find one, I own a few, some for parts, and three for use, the first one (a U.K.-market one with both the volume unlocked and the latest firmware) is being used now, and the other two (N.O.S. U.S.-market models) are backups in case it dies, in which I doubt it will do anytime soon!!!

 

[Smirk]

First of all, you don't have to enter your credit card info to create an account. Google it while you're not bashing another ISheep.

Second, as I already mentioned you can install only Itunes itself and Apple Device Manager (If you want to sync your Ipod/Iphone). No Bonjour service, no iTunesHelper or iPodService at startup and no MobileMe support. And NO QUICKTIME also. You have to install latest QT Alternative though. But it seems people just don't read... That gets away a decent amount of bloat and running processes.

Third, having EAC I don't see why you would ever need to use another ripper.

Fourth, yeah codec support is not great but it's silly to expect a Foobar2000 like format support from it. Let's see, it has most popular lossy and it's own lossless support. All covered.

Fifth, personally I think it does great what it is supposed to - to be a music library manager. I've tried almost all other software and by far organizing everything in Itunes was way faster. But it's my personal experience.

 

[deltaspirit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mesasone /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a problem with the iPod, not iTunes. It seems a number of the iTunes complaints are really complaints about the iPod. If you want that functionality, you can buy third party software to do it. My mom has bought a couple different applications that will take music back off her iPod but I haven't been particularly impressed with any of them. iTunes may not be the greatest but I like it well enough. It's pretty convient for managing podcasts. I got a Blackberry Bold/9000 (meh) after losing my iPhone in a cab and have no problem using the drag and drop functionality. I kind of missing the syncing with iTunes - I occasionally have to tell iTunes that I still listen to me podcasts or it will stop downloading them, never had that problem with the iPhone since it updated play counts, etc. I am probably going to ditch iTunes once I find some better software for my podcasts though. I have a home built machine dual booting OS X and Vista, and it sucks not being able to keep a library synced between the two operating systems. If would be nice if I could share a library index file between them.

So being able to take song off the ipod on programs other than itunes is a ipod issue?

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

My mom has bought a couple different applications that will take musi

rofl. Do you know what I have to do to take music off my H140? Press Windows key and E, click on H140 HD. CTRL A, CTRL C, click on desktop HD, CTRL V.

 

[shigzeo]

it would be different if iRiver were in the music distribution business, trust me. The problem isn't the iPod or iTunes, it is that the iPod and Apple are locked into distribution agreements with record companies who want no one anywhere to have unique rights. Some of what they say has merit of course: drag and drop from iPod to computer would be instant mass piracy without the need for internet.

 

[iriverdude]

And that should effect how I use my product? I don't think so.

Quote:

it is that the iPod and Apple are locked into distribution agreements with record companies who want no one anywhere to have unique rights.

Simple don't support a company who has bent over to the studios. Buy DAP's that have file browser drag & drop, no DRM. If one doesn't exist don't buy it.

 

[RedSky0]

Sorry, but I'm gonna take the 'lets ignore the thread and post my brief opinion' approach since I don't have much time.

I will never use a music player that is also a marketing machine that shoves hot or recommended artists down my throat.

Also, it lags horribly from normal application in Windows at least, and is even worse when you transfer something to a player which I thankfully don't have to worry about with rockbox. Again coming back to point 1, why should I have to waste my computer resources so a set of ads is constantly loaded into my memory? Why are there like 3 operations in taskbar that keep running even when I switch it off? Why does iTunes require I download additional bloatware like Quicktime along with it?

 

[Smirk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSky0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, but I'm gonna take the 'lets ignore the thread and post my brief opinion' approach since I don't have much time. Why are there like 3 operations in taskbar that keep running even when I switch it off? Why does iTunes require I download additional bloatware like Quicktime along with it?

Too bad. I have only 1 running, consuming like 2Mb from 3Gb on my laptop. When turned on, Itunes doesn't exceed 100Mb memory consumption. That's a massive slowdown indeed. What Ads are you talking about? Just don't click on Itunes Store and you'll never see any.

 

[shigzeo]

The thing is: iTunes does not throw anything down anyone's throats. If you sign up for an account, then you will get advertisements when signed into the account, or browsing the store. But that is the case with any store. If you treat it as an audio transfer and listening tool only, it will make not difference to you at all. Nothing is being spoon fed, shoved down or bent over.

If you really hate iTunes, why go out of your way to get all the bad bits sent to you? I have no such problems when I don't browse the store (a place in any community which is loaded with adverts; even headfi is - so what is the difference)?

 

[Smirk]

And did I mention using Genius I actually discovered quite a few great bands I never knew existed. Not that I bought the albums from the store

But! I'm determined to purchase a CD. So basically it's just a matter of trying to find crap in a software or using the useful amount of functionality it offers. Zune also has a similar feature called Social afaik.

And also, I think it's initially wrong to compare Itunes to foobar2000 or others. I guess it's more appropriate to compare it with Zune Software. The purpose of those two is a bit different from other media players.

 

[mesasone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaspirit /img/forum/go_quote.gif So being able to take song off the ipod on programs other than itunes is a ipod issue?

That's what I said isn't it? Apple has deliberately made it difficult to get music back off the iPod, they (or perhaps more appropriately the record companies) don't want you syncing your iPod with somebody else's library and transferring all their music back to yours. The applications that do this have done so through reverse engineering. Have you seen the music files on the iPod? They are get renamed so you can't even tell what they are. I don't see what this has to do with iTunes though.


Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif rofl. Do you know what I have to do to take music off my H140? Press Windows key and E, click on H140 HD. CTRL A, CTRL C, click on desktop HD, CTRL V.

Yes I know how that works. I do the same thing with any of the various music players I've bought that support drag and drop - which represents all of them except for my first foray into iPods (first gen nano... was not impressed) and more recently the iPhone. All players should support UMS/MTP functionality - it's unfortunate that some don't. But again, this is a problem with the iPod as a DAP and not iTunes as an application.

EDIT: And I don't see why you bolded the fact that my mother purchased some (junk) software to get music off her iPod. Not everybody is completely computer literate - she went to Best Buy and bought something off the shelf in an attempt to figure it out. If she would have asked me first, I would have directed her elsewhere. But somebody has to feed the families of mediocre programmers, right?

 

[GlassCasket]

what frustrates me no end is this belief that you need a credit card for an itunes account, and therefore need one to get an album art on itunes

i'm not even old enough for a credit card and i have an itunes account and can do all that, if you really READ it you don't need one... i haven't payed for anything or used starbucks free cards (don't even HAVE starbucks here) or any itunes card

itunes sucks because apple is too lazy to code it to work properly on windows, hence why even the worst macs can run it speedily

in saying that though, a processor + ram combo that can bring itunes to its knees isn't very pricey at all, so that's not really an excuse to sledge it, just skip out on buying those extra headphones or amp or whatever for a month or two and you're set.
i mean you spend up to 1k (sometimes more) on a pair of headphones but complain when your computer sucks?

the reason itunes comes with it's 'bloatware' is simply clever marketting
to the mainstream user once they get their ipod, all of a sudden they're into quick time, safari browsers and next thing you know their next computer is a mac, which is what they want..
you dont have to have itunes with advertising, just don't go into the store?
you dont even have to install the extras!

why people love drag and drop so much is beyond me
i find it a nightmare, i have a relatively modest music collection, its just under 40 gig and i organise it in a simple folder system that follows
artist>album>songs
sometimes an artist can have up to 14 albums in a folder.
and obviously i dont always want every album, not everything can fit.
how do i easily get particular albums in a big batch drag and drop? you cant double click into a folder without dis-selecting it all, and any other kind of open command opens up every folder.
doing enough copy and pastes at once will bring windows to a crawl, and i have a pretty high specc'd pc, and i dont want to sit it and sift through 40 gig of music and transfer albums a few at a time, i'd rather go into my library software and set it to push across 20 gig or whatever and go wander off and do something better with my time.

just because it can't drag and drop doesn't make it bad at all, you're probably more upset about not being able to take it off, which is really an anti piracy measure
besides, the programs that are required to take music off ipods are neither large, or hard to get legitimately or illegitimately (how ironic)

besides, this all misses apple's huge point of
"it just works"
if you want to relatively quickly and easily (obviously quicker on a mac due to prejudices) get music onto your ipod from itunes, it'll do exactly that
you're asking it to do something that it never will, or intends to do.

and like smirk says, you're comparing apples and pears
something that's marketed more as a library software + app store (nowadays at least) with a media player tacked on, against a media player with library functions tacked on
since lets face it, fubar2000 and winamp's library functions really aren't too nice, i used them long enough to realise that i never wanted to use them as a library again. and besides, winamp is just like itunes anyway, it probably wishes it was itunes, so that they'd be making a stack of cash and you'd be sending hate their way.

and as a side note, i dont like itunes, i use the zune library software
but i have to use itunes when my 3gs comes

this whole discussion is ridiculous since its just one party bias'd against another flinging proverbial crap at each other.

 

[azncookiecutter]

Personally have no beef with iTunes, but I only use it to transfer converted videos over and app management. Music transfers is handled by Foobar2000 and foo_dop, and other than being limited to codecs and occasional efficiency issues, it's not a bad app.

 

[roebeet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCasket /img/forum/go_quote.gif what frustrates me no end is this belief that you need a credit card for an itunes account, and therefore need one to get an album art on itunes

I'm actually more concerned that you need an account at all. I'd add the AA manually, but of course the app doesn't allow that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCasket /img/forum/go_quote.gif in saying that though, a processor + ram combo that can bring itunes to its knees isn't very pricey at all, so that's not really an excuse to sledge it, just skip out on buying those extra headphones or amp or whatever for a month or two and you're set. i mean you spend up to 1k (sometimes more) on a pair of headphones but complain when your computer sucks?

Your argument doesn't work with a netbook, unfortunately. I happen to know this because I own one, and had this very issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCasket /img/forum/go_quote.gif why people love drag and drop so much is beyond me i find it a nightmare, i have a relatively modest music collection, its just under 40 gig and i organise it in a simple folder system that follows artist>album>songs sometimes an artist can have up to 14 albums in a folder. and obviously i dont always want every album, not everything can fit. just because it can't drag and drop doesn't make it bad at all, you're probably more upset about not being able to take it off, which is really an anti piracy measure besides, the programs that are required to take music off ipods are neither large, or hard to get legitimately or illegitimately (how ironic)

To each his own. I prefer absolute control over my collection and I find it to be much easier, once I set it up the way I want it. Probably the biggest advantage is that it's portable - I can use it on my Ubuntu system, my Windows system, MacOS system, my netbook, Rockboxed Gigabeat or Sansa Clip.

As for the piracy comment, that's completely off-base. Again, in my case, I own the music device and prefer that the file structure be setup in such a way that it's as portable as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCasket /img/forum/go_quote.gif lets face it, fubar2000 and winamp's library functions really aren't too nice, i used them long enough to realise that i never wanted to use them as a library again. and besides, winamp is just like itunes anyway, it probably wishes it was itunes, so that they'd be making a stack of cash and you'd be sending hate their way.

I haven't found the perfect music player yet, and I probably never will. It's just a question of using the best one you can find, for your needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCasket /img/forum/go_quote.gif this whole discussion is ridiculous since its just one party bias'd against another flinging proverbial crap at each other.

The OP wanted the opinion of why some of us chose to use a player other than iTunes. It was a pretty simple question, until things got a bit heated.

Most of the Apple supporters here are not "iSheep" - they've made a conscious decision to use iTunes as their player of choice. And, if it works for them, then that's great. However, just because someone does not like iTunes doesn't mean that they only hate it because they are fighting against "the man". I think that those of us who use alternative players / drag and drop have also made a well thought out decision as to the reasons why, and some of us have stated those reasons here. I think we should get the same respect as those of you who use iTunes.

 

[krmathis]

Guess I am one of few who live happily with iTunes.
Ok, a wider range of supported audio codecs would be nice (eg. FLAC). But I am perfectly pleased with the rest. . .

* Intuitive UI.
* Fast and stable.
* Full control of my files.
* AirTunes.
* Cover Flow.
* Smart playlists.
* Manage iPod.