Single DD verses all BA or Hybrid:
And while it’s easy to start to get excited about this single DD methodology, how can one driver be good? Typically balanced armatures have been added to single dynamic drivers to increase technicalities in midrange and treble.... thus the hybrids. So why at this point in time do we want to take all the parts back-out? Balanced armatures are special as they are small and will produce a desired (focused) frequency response. BA drivers offer a quick attack sonic edge. If asked I would say the biggest issue with BAs is off-timbre and grain. In the list of things people criticize BA drivers for it's typically a lack of bass decay, metallic sheens and/or nasal tone. Surprisingly some all BA IEMs will seem perfectly fine until that guitar part (you’ve heard for 20 years) comes up and it’s obvious that the tone/timbre is way off, surprisingly off. When that happens you’ll never look at that IEM the same way again…..yet other better all BA IEMs seem to walk around such pitfalls?
Gotta agree with this. In general BA drivers tend to give some BA timbre for acoustic instruments, when compared to single DD type timbre. Some folks ain't particular about timbral accuracy though, or perhaps they listen to music genres that do not incorporate much acoustic instruments and perhaps focus more on synthetic sounds?
BA bass tends to also have a lack of decay and movement of air when compared to DD bass. There are exceptions of course.
But lately, the trend seems to be moving towards vented BA bass drivers. Some of those I've tried actually sound pretty close to real DD bass in terms of decay/movement of air eg Audiosense T800 has vented BA bass.
Yes, I don't have a favorite driver technology? I feel each offers certain attributes which (depending on the person) are important. It's all an illusion anyway. DD pull off a better cohesive tale...............a better reverberation story. Though BA can be faster and easier to tune. Each BA can be tuned to response an even an correct frequency response. So as a whole success comes from a correct, even and balanced frequency response. That is easer said than done. So it can be dark, it can be bright, it can be all sorts of characters and still be even and correct.
The issue is phase artifacts with DD. Having the driver move only one way at a piston action is the key. I can't help but guess this stuff is advancing, that it isn't just fancy sales speak.
Gotta agree with this. In general BA drivers tend to give some BA timbre for acoustic instruments, when compared to single DD type timbre. Some folks ain't particular about timbral accuracy though, or perhaps they listen to music genres that do not incorporate much acoustic instruments and perhaps focus more on synthetic sounds?
BA bass tends to also have a lack of decay and movement of air when compared to DD bass. There are exceptions of course.
But lately, the trend seems to be moving towards vented BA bass drivers. Some of those I've tried actually sound pretty close to real DD bass in terms of decay/movement of air eg Audiosense T800 has vented BA bass.
The quality of headphones and speakers depends most on the design and the manufacturing tolerances. The materials used to make transducers aren't all that exotic. Usually when you see advertising copy mentioning what drivers are made of, it's just that... advertising copy. There are great headphones and speakers in a lot of different designs and materials. Designing a transducer is the process of making trade offs. Each trade off comes with an advantage and a disadvantage. How you balance those makes the difference. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Words like "pure" are a sure sign of snake oil and audiophoolery. They use words with good connotations in different contexts to infer quality. "The drivers are PURE unobtanium, therefore the sound must be pure too!" Some people never learn critical thinking and they fall for this stuff every time. Then they wrap their ego and biases around their misconceptions and they get belligerent and can't learn anything at all.
Copy pasting big blocks of sales literature... sheesh!
Go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say unobtanium was bad. I said that there are lots of fantastic headphones made with other materials. Where the driver falls on the periodic chart of elements isn't as important as the design of the headphones and the manufacturing tolerances.
Every thing is written by me? I can quote myself all I want? The only part not written by me is post # 15. Sales literature? There is a ton of real science illustrated there?
Most drivers are coated, only two in the world are pure. That’s it. Simple.
You said:
Quote: Words like "pure" are a sure sign of snake oil and audiophoolery.
End quote:
Here it is to describe a non coated driver. That’s it. I’m positively sure you had no understanding of that concept when you wrote the above. Just admit your wrong and we can move on.
It’s funny as you will argue about just about anything? Why is that? Just admit you don’t understand the term and we can move on?
Sales pitch is sales pitch. It has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's making conclusions based on marketing. Are you unable to parse subtext? PURE unobtanium is subtext. CONVENTIONAL drivers versus OUR NEW AND IMPROVED drivers is subtext. Ad copy plays on this all the time. You need to be critical when you read sales literature, and you need to put it to the test by comparing it to other things to verify that any of these numbers and theories add up to a significant improvement in sound over other manufacturers' theories and numbers. There is no one correct way to design a transducer. The people who design them are making trade offs, playing advantages against disadvantages, to arrive on a sum total that works. You can reach that with PURE unobtanium, and you can reach that with CONVENTIONAL drivers. It all depends on the choices the designers made and the manufacturing tolerances.
It's like people who say electrostatic is the best, or planar is the best. Yes, there are good planar and electrostatic cans. But there are also good dynamic cans. One parameter isn't what matters. It's the sum total of all of the design choices. Reducing it down to one thing is oversimplifying a complicated decision. Ad copy oversimplifies to get you to decide that their model and brand is the best. Nothing else comes close. But that is a trick. It's almost better to just go in listening and ignore all the pamphlets and advertorial they push at you. Make a decision on how well the sum total works.
You're so wrong sometimes that it is painful to read. The Focal Utopia does use PURE beryllium drivers. It's not snake oil. It's pure fact. And there are certainly sonic advantages for using that material.
Sales pitch is sales pitch. It has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's making conclusions based on marketing. Are you unable to parse subtext? PURE unobtanium is subtext. CONVENTIONAL drivers versus OUR NEW AND IMPROVED drivers is subtext. Ad copy plays on this all the time. You need to be critical when you read sales literature, and you need to put it to the test by comparing it to other things to verify that any of these numbers and theories add up to a significant improvement in sound over other manufacturers' theories and numbers. There is no one correct way to design a transducer. The people who design them are making trade offs, playing advantages against disadvantages, to arrive on a sum total that works. You can reach that with PURE unobtanium, and you can reach that with CONVENTIONAL drivers. It all depends on the choices the designers made and the manufacturing tolerances.
It's like people who say electrostatic is the best, or planar is the best. Yes, there are good planar and electrostatic cans. But there are also good dynamic cans. One parameter isn't what matters. It's the sum total of all of the design choices. Reducing it down to one thing is oversimplifying a complicated decision. Ad copy oversimplifies to get you to decide that their model and brand is the best. Nothing else comes close. But that is a trick. It's almost better to just go in listening and ignore all the pamphlets and advertorial they push at you. Make a decision on how well the sum total works.
Maybe just by design, or possibly the material and the design, could be termed an advanced technology. Stuff is truly better today and good stuff remains past invented. I’m not saying one material is better than another. But I don’t know how you come to the conclusion that stuff is NOT getting better? I totally agree that it’s better to simply listen and ignore the hype.
Just listen! There is more than one way to skin a cat! But you have to realize that we are in an industry that is based on incremental improvements. Look at a pair of headphones from the 1950s? Surly there is an element of discovery at hand?
Are the only good cans currently on the markets the ones with this kind of driver? Nope. This one parameter isn't the deciding factor between good cans and bad ones.
The 50s were 7 decades ago. No one with half a brain thinks analog tape and LPs are superior. We've had great improvements, but they've come in big leaps, not incremental improvements... stereo, digital audio, multichannel... none of this was incremental. Incremental improvements are sales pitch. It's chasing theories and numbers that don't relate to actual sound or functionality. Put it to the test. Find what works, not what some ad tells you what works.
Are the only good cans currently on the markets the ones with this kind of driver? Nope. This one parameter isn't the deciding factor between good cans and bad ones.
The 50s were 7 decades ago. No one with half a brain thinks analog tape and LPs are superior. We've had great improvements, but they've come in big leaps, not incremental improvements... stereo, digital audio, multichannel... none of this was incremental. Incremental improvements are sales pitch. It's chasing theories and numbers that don't relate to actual sound or functionality. Put it to the test. Find what works, not what some ad tells you what works.
I beg to differ. There are a lot of great examples of past generation drivers with great tuning such as the Focal Clear and the Aurorus Borealis. Or am I just misunderstanding something here?
I beg to differ. There are a lot of great examples of past generation drivers with great tuning such as the Focal Clear and the Aurorus Borealis. Or am I just misunderstanding something here?
Truly I’m actually not sure to a point. Meaning yes, new materials have a sound. The sound can actually have new characteristics which can be interpreted as new and better. Such a level of progress can be almost impossible to truly quantify. Meaning the consumer, the sales press, and even the manufacturer can become under the impression of said technology being an advancement.
My full size “favorite” full-size headphone has regular DD technology. What makes them different is the enclosure. So the MDR-Z1R does have regular driver material. The hype is the application of the material along with driver size. Again it’s the tuning involved. I don’t think there has ever been a tune like the MDR-Z1R? That is what makes it special to me. Other materials, new cutting edge technology?
I believe definitely that IEMs have gotten way way better in the last 5 years. Also they have become “different” in the application of the material and technology. There are so many examples of both the use of design material and the application of that material in consequence resulting in a profound better sound! I could make a list of 300 such examples of products which are new and different and find and area of existence never found before on earth. Full-size is really not my personal area of expertise. I truly think you have to be an owner of said product to grasp the results.
Meaning bigshot doesn’t own any of this technology possibly, so he is out of the loop. At the same time I respect his opinion, I just don’t fully agree. Full-size is harder to pin down. Meaning it’s almost impossible to truly know with out IEM ownership. With full-size it is next to impossible to know because we can’t step farther enough away to truly know if said technology is simply providing a different sound with full-size..........not better.
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