[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the money ($400 to $500) few phones are the equal of the AD2000s with the right set up and once they're burnt in - they've got it all.

Agreed, and well put, especially in terms of the value proposition.

But the right set up is key in terms of the point that donunus makes below. I don't have any bass response issues at all with my AD2K but they're definitely not the last word on bass. Kind of light and polite in that regard, but good, clean quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wrecked_Porsche, AD2K is great but they might not have the bass that you want. Don't get me wrong, I love their bass but lots of people find them lacking in bass volume, especially compared to darths.

Excellent point here as well, and that would be my one caution with the AD2K. I don't find them to be too terribly lacking in bass, but I'm not a big time bass freak and I like the texture and crispness of the AD2K bass (I'm kind of a quality over quantity kind of guy in this regard). Yet, as I've stated earlier in this thread, I can see where this would be an issue for those who place more emphasis here. I don't, others do.

What I love about the AD2K is that they just get out of the way without over or under emphasizing anything. They're so clean and refreshing in so many ways, and to me that's what trance is all about. It has it's own colorations, so why would you want to introduce a bass bias with something like the Darth DT770's? Those would seem more suitable for obviously bass heavy music. Kind of like what I use my PS-1 for.

 

[donunus]

Of all the cans Ive had or heard, the AD2k is the only one that gets out of the way with all my music. It might not be the best at everything but it does give all music sort of an 85% of its potential while something like a sennheiser 595 fluctuates depending on music maybe something like 45% for rod stewart and 80% for patricia barber. Hope you get what I mean with my scale.

The only thing the ad2ks need to be a perfect can for me (at least 95% on my scale) is just a smidgen more bass (which is probably easily cured by a better source in my case), a more live separated soundstage, and more highs at 14khz and up which hardly any can gives anyway. To get the extra 5% to get 100% would need a refinement upgrade but I don't really need more refinement with the ad2ks for my taste though. If it had more bass, It might be too much for me when used with a cd source/amp combo. It is only a little lacking bass because the ipod line out is the bottleneck.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif If it had more bass, It might be too much for me when used with a cd source/amp combo. It is only a little lacking bass because the ipod line out is the bottleneck.

With my set up, I find the AD2000s have lots of bass - very tight, with impact, about like my HD580/600s, or RS-1s.

Their bass is not has strong as my HD650s, because their bass emphasis doesn't extend as strongly into the mid-bass frequencies as with the HD650s - its not as "boomy." Though, it seems about as strong in the lower frequencies.

And I do believe its stronger and richer with my tube DACs and tube amp than it was with my SS set up.

But... I wouldn't consider them "bass light" at all.

 

[donunus]

actually tried them with my standard pioneer dvd player connected to the headfive and voila... bass galore. Thats how I knew that it was the ipod robbing the ad2k's of their wonderful bass

 

[Rednamalas1]

I thought these were quite bass heavy - but my comparions are to K701,DT880, etc..certainly nothing close to darth beyers etc.
What's really impressive is that quickness and accurate presentation of the bass present on AD2K despite larger amount of bass compared to most of other's controlled bass.
This makes me wonder what L3000 is like

 

[Elephas]

I agree that the AD2000 might not have the bass quantity the OP expects, but then the 250ohm DT880-'05 doesn't have large bass quantity either. I would not have guessed that the OP would like it.

I would've expected the OP to prefer the DT990-'05, which has greater bass quantity and impact than the DT880-'05, DT880-'03 or AD2000.

The AD2000 is one of the better-sounding headphones I've heard unamped and with lesser-sources. I think it will perform well in wrecked_porsche's system. But buying one will be buying it unheard, while he has heard and already likes the DT880-'05.

Take the risk and go for the potentially better but unknown AD2000? Or play it safe and go for the liked and known DT880-'05? Aaargh, this isn't even my decision and I can't decide.

 

[majkel]

There is more bass impact in the DT990 '05 but it's better defined in the DT880's '05. I'd go with the DT880 Pro's as I actually did but the choice is narrowed. I heard DT880's with bands like the Prodigy, Basement Jaxx, Freestylers, Bomfunk MC's and others, and I'd say the DT880 Pro's are very suitable. The amount of bass will be enough from a good SS amp, and the OP would also get nice midrange timbre which makes electronica more alluring and enjoyable, not just oom-tss-oom-tss. And like shigzeo said, with hard electronica the AD2k's will be like a left glove on the right hand IMHO. The poll makes no sense as most participants listen to different music genres.

 

[donunus]

electronica is actually pretty good on the ad2ks

 

[Rednamalas1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif electronica is actually pretty good on the ad2ks

I agree as well. I generally don't listen to electronica - in terms of trance, house, drum n bass etc - but I do listen to fair bit of chillout stuff like massive attack, portishead etc. As you might know, their presentation of low bass rumble was amazing with AD2000! I need to try listening to some other types of electronica, but I would think that it would have no problem with fast bass presentation and ultra-low sweeps. I'll let you know how it actually does with other electronica after some careful listening session!

 

[wower]

Quote:

electronica is actually pretty good on the ad2ks

x3!

I'm still searching for a bit more in the bass dept with the AD2000 when I put on dance CDs but there's no denying the quality is there is droves and it makes mix cds very unfatiguing. I think without spending enourmous sums - and I'm in the odd camp of having many phones and rigs for differ music - having a darth (I can only wish) and a top shelf open can gets you the best of both worlds. When you are in a basshead mood, go with the woodied 770, but i'm sure for other types of music such as blues, folk, chamber, radiohead, etc etc you will slowly find yourself reaching for the AD2000. It's high quality mid-range, overall transparency and balance, and high end sparkel, make it a very musical can. This is all contingent on whether you like the beyer house sound or not.

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif they did not have the space the dt880 had and seemed a little too forward without the space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif yet, the ad2000 are not going to give you the big bass either like the darth - not too many phones will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wrecked_Porsche, AD2K is great but they might not have the bass that you want. Don't get me wrong, I love their bass but lots of people find them lacking in bass volume, especially compared to darths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif It has it's own colorations, so why would you want to introduce a bass bias with something like the Darth DT770's?

Ok, sorry about my original post guys; Wmcmanus, you're right, I'm not aiming for a headphone that sounds like my Darths...
I made it more clear with an edit:

I want my Trance/Electronic music to have lotsa details while having at least some of the impact of the Darths if possible. (Even 1/4 of the Darth's impact would do!)


I didn't mean for it to have exactly the same kinda bass like the Darth. That is the very reason I am looking for a headphone to complement my Darths. Sometimes there is just too much bass. Sorry about not conveying my query more clearly. I hope you guys have a rough idea what I'm looking for now in terms of bass? I need at least some punchiness in my bass... can't be flat like an AKG K530 ... or K501...

If the AD2k has bass impact like DT880 or HD580 or the D1000 I should be fine. After all, that's why I have my Darths for; teh basshead moments!

Anyways, bass is not very high on my list, what I'm looking for is details, separation, musicality and FUN. I want to be able to pick out details but also be able to enjoy the music. I love to hear the sparkly bits in the background.

DT880 has the details and separation I'm looking for while the AD2k has the musicality and FUN... ? Oh noes...

BTW, does the AD2k put you at least in the fifth row or so of the performance? I can't stand it if it sounds like Grados and the music sounds as though you are standing on the stage with the musicians...

Any other things that I have left out?


Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of all the cans Ive had or heard, the AD2k is the only one that gets out of the way with all my music. It might not be the best at everything but it does give all music sort of an 85% of its potential while something like a sennheiser 595 fluctuates depending on music maybe something like 45% for rod stewart and 80% for patricia barber. Hope you get what I mean with my scale.

Yes, I totally get what you mean, my ES7 sounds good with just about anything I throw at it, but does not do Dance music like my Darths does... teh awesomeness...

BUT there are some music that sounds horrid with the Darths but sounds ok on the ES7.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif With my set up, I find the AD2000s have lots of bass - very tight, with impact, about like my HD580/600s, or RS-1s.

I have heard the HD580 with hd600 grills before. If the AD2k has bass like that, then ok, its not a problem. I did think that the bass on the HD580 was a little, and I do mean just a little slow and flabby... Is it tighter and faster on the AD2k?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rednamalas1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What's really impressive is that quickness and accurate presentation of the bass present on AD2K despite larger amount of bass compared to most of other's controlled bass. This makes me wonder what L3000 is like

Good to know. It sounds like what I'm looking for in the AD2k. Oh and please don't remind me of the L3000....

if I had the $$$ I'd buy the L3000 in a heartbeat. Based on what I've read, that is my dream headphone.
A wet dream.

Elephas knows how much I love the ES7 and based on his experience with the ES7 and L3000, he has told me that the L3000 is what I'm looking for...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif they did not have the space the dt880 had and seemed a little too forward without the space.

This is one of my concerns. If I choose to go with the AD2k, I'll loose the space and separation the DT880 has. Forwardness on the AD2k is another concern of mine. From what I gather, they are less forward than Grados? If they were on the same level as the ES7 wrt forwardness, then its fine. In fact I'd like it that way.


Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif @op: unless you have a powerful amplifier you will not get a huge amount of bass impact from the dt880

Amplification if not a concern for now, I have sufficient equipment to drive either one of the headphones for now.. I'll make do for now. Its all about baby steps, one thing at the time. BTW, I'm a fan of SS amps, tubes are too much of a hassle IMHO, and I also like crispness and details in my music which is what SS amps have to offer IMHO.


Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wrecked_Porsche, AD2K is great but they might not have the bass that you want. Don't get me wrong, I love their bass but lots of people find them lacking in bass volume, especially compared to darths.

Well, like I said above, I edited my original post. I don't expect them to be on par with Darths in the bass dept. Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree that the AD2000 might not have the bass quantity the OP expects, but then the 250ohm DT880-'05 doesn't have large bass quantity either. I would not have guessed that the OP would like it.

But.. but... I did like the DT880 and I found it to have sufficient bass...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would've expected the OP to prefer the DT990-'05, which has greater bass quantity and impact than the DT880-'05, DT880-'03 or AD2000.

DT990 sounded yucky to me. Thin sounding and sibilant from the get go... NO thanks. Hmmmm... Donunus, wasn't this what you thought about the DT990 too? Perhaps I'm destined for the AD2k too? But have you tried the DT880 before?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif The AD2000 is one of the better-sounding headphones I've heard unamped and with lesser-sources. I think it will perform well in wrecked_porsche's system. But buying one will be buying it unheard, while he has heard and already likes the DT880-'05.

Ok, ok, I know that I have less than a stellar system, no need to point that out...

j/k

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif Take the risk and go for the potentially better but unknown AD2000? Or play it safe and go for the liked and known DT880-'05? Aaargh, this isn't even my decision and I can't decide.

Decide quick!

The thing with the DT880 is that its the 600ohm version, so perhaps it ups the ante and is on par with the DT880 and all the "flaws" from the regular version is gone? Aaaaaaaargh indeed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif not just oom-tss-oom-tss.

LOL !

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif The poll makes no sense as most participants listen to different music genres.

NO, no, no, don't vote based on YOUR music pref! See the music I've listed in the first post and see if you like any similar music and then vote/advice me to let me know which you think would go well with that kinda music!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm still searching for a bit more in the bass dept with the AD2000 when I put on dance CDs but there's no denying the quality is there is droves and it makes mix cds very unfatiguing.

Copper wires/interconnects and a bassy amp is the solution perhaps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif having a darth (I can only wish) and a top shelf open can gets you the best of both worlds. When you are in a basshead mood, go with the woodied 770, but i'm sure for other types of music such as blues, folk, chamber, radiohead, etc etc you will slowly find yourself reaching for the AD2000.

Believe it or not I have basshead moments sometimes even before I sleep. The pounding Darths are soothing in some instances!

But there are times I just want the music to flow and the exaggerated bass gets in the way. I can't enjoy the music but instead listen to the bassline...

Annoying to say the least...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's high quality mid-range, overall transparency and balance, and high end sparkel, make it a very musical can.

I'm a huge fan of sparkle and details. These attributes are freaking awesome when listening to Buddha Bar or Cafe Del Mar.... No words can describe how I feel when I close my eyes and just get lost in the flowing music when listening to those two awesome series... picking out the instruments coming from all directions, floating around me... I feel sooo relaxed.... I'm a HUGE fan... I forgot to mention in my first post. The ES7 sound great with these songs, but the Darths are only good with about 40% of the music from BB and CDM.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is all contingent on whether you like the beyer house sound or not.

Difficult to say, loved the DT880, hated DT990, never heard DT770, only went straight for Darths...

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif DT990 sounded yucky to me. Thin sounding and sibilant from the get go... NO thanks. Hmmmm... Donunus, wasn't this what you thought about the DT990 too? Perhaps I'm destined for the AD2k too? But have you tried the DT880 before?

never tried the dt880s. The dt990s(being the current flagship) scared me from getting any beyers ever again! Unless I hear someones pair of dt880s and they sound great, they are off my list of headphones to buy. The 990s couldn't stay on my head over 5 minutes without massive ear fatigue or tinnitus. They really hit me where it hurt soundwise... They made my grados very dark sounding

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

The thing with the DT880 is that its the 600ohm version, so perhaps it ups the ante and is on par with the DT880 and all the "flaws" from the regular version is gone? Aaaaaaaargh indeed!

I haven't really understood in what way the 600ohm version could improve the DT880? In my view, the treble of dt880 2005 250ohm is perfect (or very near, if they had the sparkle of dt990 (but in less amount) they would be perfect). Clear and airy, without being harsh. My idea of the 600ohm would be that they have less sparkle and less amount of treble, therefore less fun (haven't heard them). Is anything else changed with 600ohm which makes it better?

I can see why the 600ohm dt990 would be a big improvement though.

Quote:

never tried the dt880s. The dt990s(being the current flagship) scared me from getting any beyers ever again! Unless I hear someones pair of dt880s and they sound great, they are off my list of headphones to buy. The 990s couldn't stay on my head over 5 minutes without massive ear fatigue or tinnitus. They really hit me where it hurt soundwise... They made my grados very dark sounding

The only problem I have with the treble of dt990 is the amount. The treble of dt880 is very similar to dt990 in quality, but with less amount, which takes all the harshness away for me.

 

[big-ban]

@OP: First of all, I really love my AD2Ks and I'd say they can hold their own ground against any "higher" AT model I own. As you can see from my signature, I own the L3000, W5000 (F5005), W1000 and W10VTG, but even in this illustrous company, the AD2Ks are still unique headphones.
I've also previously owned the DT880 '03 and found it was too sterile, lifeless and trebly sounding.
I'd recommend the AD2Ks in a heartbeat if it weren't for a few contradictory statements you made that make me doubt the AD2000 is the absolute best choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, sorry about my original post guys; Wmcmanus, you're right, I'm not aiming for a headphone that sounds like my Darths... I made it more clear with an edit: I want my Trance/Electronic music to have lotsa details while having at least some of the impact of the Darths if possible. (Even 1/4 of the Darth's impact would do!) I didn't mean for it to have exactly the same kinda bass like the Darth. That is the very reason I am looking for a headphone to complement my Darths. Sometimes there is just too much bass. Sorry about not conveying my query more clearly. I hope you guys have a rough idea what I'm looking for now in terms of bass? I need at least some punchiness in my bass... can't be flat like an AKG K530 ... or K501...

The AD2K is - in my experience - the most punchy of all headphones I've heard. The bass is amazingly quick and has just the right impact to make kickdrums sound so real and palpable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the AD2k has bass impact like DT880 or HD580 or the D1000 I should be fine. After all, that's why I have my Darths for; teh basshead moments!

I don't think DT880, HD580 AND D1000 have much in common in terms of bass impact. I'd say the D1000 has by far the most bass, it is in fact a rather bassy headphone, followed by the more or less balanced HD580 and the pretty bass-light DT880.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyways, bass is not very high on my list, what I'm looking for is details, separation, musicality and FUN. I want to be able to pick out details but also be able to enjoy the music.

Here's one of the contradictions I noticed. The AD2000 is first and foremost a musical and fun headphone. However, it doesn't focus on detail retrieval or massive soundstage though, I think some people have very accurately described the AD2000 in this thread. I'd agree in that it really gets out of the way of the music and doesn't even try to be a detailed headphone, a soundstage-headphone or any other pretender for that matter. It just draws you into the music and grabs you emotionally. With the K701 and DT880 I always had the feeling of being detached from the music. It's simply too spread-out and far away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif I love to hear the sparkly bits in the background.

While the AD2000 will allow you to do hear all that and while it is not exactly a bad headphone in terms of detail retrieval, it certainly isn't the right choice if your primary concern is detail. In this instance, I'd rather recommend the W1000 or W5000, even though these probably have other shortcomings that might not fit your needs. But you never know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif DT880 has the details and separation I'm looking for while the AD2k has the musicality and FUN... ? Oh noes... BTW, does the AD2k put you at least in the fifth row or so of the performance? I can't stand it if it sounds like Grados and the music sounds as though you are standing on the stage with the musicians... Any other things that I have left out?

Lets put it that way: both have the details and separation, but the DT880 throws them at you a little more readily and at the same time tries to be more of a soundstage headphone, while the AD2000 just plain delivers and let's you forget all the technical babble and eventual shortcomings.
Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have heard the HD580 with hd600 grills before. If the AD2k has bass like that, then ok, its not a problem. I did think that the bass on the HD580 was a little, and I do mean just a little slow and flabby... Is it tighter and faster on the AD2k?

It is definitely tighter and faster. I'd say, bass hardly gets any tighter and faster than with the AD2Ks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good to know. It sounds like what I'm looking for in the AD2k. Oh and please don't remind me of the L3000.... if I had the $$$ I'd buy the L3000 in a heartbeat. Based on what I've read, that is my dream headphone. A wet dream. Elephas knows how much I love the ES7 and based on his experience with the ES7 and L3000, he has told me that the L3000 is what I'm looking for...

The L3000 certainly could be considered a massively improved Darth or HD650. Due to is darker tonality, I don't perceive it as punchy as the AD2000, even though the bass is not boomy at all, but very textured and layered. It just doesn't sound as quick because of the generally much greater impact and midbass pronounciation, compared to the AD2000.
Currently owning both, I can tell you that the L3000 doesn't make the AD2000 obsolete. For Rock/Metal I prefer the AD2000, even though many people at head-fi will tell you that there's nothing like the L3000 for rock. I agree it's very good at that, but I just happen to prefer the more energetic nature of the AD2000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is one of my concerns. If I choose to go with the AD2k, I'll loose the space and separation the DT880 has. Forwardness on the AD2k is another concern of mine. From what I gather, they are less forward than Grados? If they were on the same level as the ES7 wrt forwardness, then its fine. In fact I'd like it that way.

The important question here is: do you want a soundstage headphone or a headphone that simply makes you not worry about (the lack of) soundstage? Yes, the AD2000s are less forward than Grados, they do have a soundstage, and not a compressed or small one at that, it's just that the majority of the music takes place not too far outside of your head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif But.. but... I did like the DT880 and I found it to have sufficient bass...

Then it's safe to say that there aren't many headphones that you would dislike because of their lack of bass. From my memory, the DT880 is one of the most bass-light headphones I've heard. The W1000 is another bass-light headphone, which goes a little bit into the direction of the DT880 but without its treble accentuation. Otherwise it has a pretty empressive soundstage, very good detailing and a pretty balanced presentation. Nothing really stands out or is preceived as lacking, at least to my ears. It's bass is very punchy and accurate, despite being not very pronounced. Some say it's deep bass notes are lacking, but I've done some tests with sine waves, indicating that it is fairly flat from 60 down to 35 hz.
I think you can conclude from this that I like it much more than the DT880.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm a huge fan of sparkle and details. These attributes are freaking awesome when listening to Buddha Bar or Cafe Del Mar.... No words can describe how I feel when I close my eyes and just get lost in the flowing music when listening to those two awesome series... picking out the instruments coming from all directions, floating around me... I feel sooo relaxed.... I'm a HUGE fan... I forgot to mention in my first post. The ES7 sound great with these songs, but the Darths are only good with about 40% of the music from BB and CDM.

This paragraph again would rather make me change my recommendation towards the DT880/W1000/W5000, even though the AD2000 also does this. You can pick out single instruments very easily, the imaging is pretty good, but the instruments aren't spead out as widely as with the other headphones.

Another idea I came up with is the Edition 9. In my brief experience with them I found them to be pretty spacious and at the same time bassy and detailed. A result of this was a ever so slight midrange recession I probably could get used to. Not a bad headphone overall, but not quite my taste.
Adding up all your requirements, this headphone might be worth a listen for you.

As a final statement I'd say that you really need to auditon more headphones. I don't think one us head-fiers can extrapolate the perfect headphone from your wishes and requirements. Auditioning more headphones will help you form your view on what kind of sound you really like.

I've personally come to understand that "technically better" doesn't necessarilty equal "more fun". While the Stax Omega II is clearly a better headphone in a technical way (more detailed, more spacious), I wouldn't trade it for the AD2000. The AD2000 on its own sounds just so right and complete that it's hard to criticize anything about it.
Of course, there's a lot of people who won't agree with this statement, but to my ears, the AD2000 is that good.

 

[majkel]

big-ban, it doesn't make sense to revoke other headphones. ED9's have not that big soundstage, the Proline 2500's have bigger and more impressive, and they could work for trance very well. The ED9's magic lies somewhere else.
I wouldn't call the DT880 '05 bass-light as well. They have quite much trebles, especially when compared to dark and juicy headphones but actually they are closer to the nature than i.e. the HD600's and it's not that the DT880's highs are emphasized or something. They're mostly not rolled off in the regions where other headphones are. Things like separation, soudstage, air, whatever you say is the AD2k's feature, applies to the DT880 '05's as well. At least I don't miss it using them.
As I don't really know the exact preference of the OP, I can't actually tell which headphones will match best but it's recommended to comment the headphones that are of the interest. I can agree that the DT880 '03 won't fit especially that I haven't heard them.

Regarding the electrostats. Yes, they're more different than better but the AD2k's don't even compare to the dynamic hi-end. I prefer SR-404 and SR-007 to the O2's, BTW.