[Beyerfan70]

I know there are many about this kind of thing but after my findings i just had to share my shock with someone.
Ok so this evening i was a bit bored and decided to run some of my cds through my wave editor and i just couldn't believe what i found.
Nearly every cd i own after 2000 is indeed bricked and pushing consistently over the limit.
Ok not surprising i hear you say but we are not talking small,we are talking some big names here,some huge who to be honest i never thought would be a casualty of this.
Some names include.....
Shania twain
Judus priest
Megadeth
Cky
Aerosmith
Sonic youth
Status quo
Whitesnake
Rem
Queen
Madness
Mick jagger
The rolling stones
And shockingly my favourite singer David bowie! (the heathen album is horrifyingly brickwalled)
The alarming thing is is a good chunk of the names on here should really know better,i mean there are some top people working on some of these so surely the problem must lie with these so called mastering engineers,surely the artist didn't want the finished product like this.
Not all was bad news though,names like.....
Sting
Electric light orchestra
Diana krall
Girlschool
Pink floyd
George harrison
Candye kane
Guns 'n roses
Ozzy osbourne
Iron maiden and a few others were nicely produced and mastered with loads of dynamics!
It really shocked me to say the least.
Especially when you consider some have been around for years.
Certainly an eye opener,yikes i'm glad i still have a good turntable!
If vinyl wasn't so expensive these days i dont think i would buy another cd.

 

[SiriuslyCold]

you must remember they don't really work on the mastering themselves, for the most part.

just out of curiosity how many of those in the top list were Rick Rubin/Vlado Meller masterpieces?

 

[non-entity]

Some time ago I did something similar and I was also quite shocked. I think the name doesn't matter that much, it's more the infatuation of the artist. Like SiriuslyCold said: they don't work on the mastering themselves most of the time. And when something's thought for radioplay there is an even bigger probability that it's very strong compressed.

 

[blackbird]

I'm sorry, since I am new to this "hifi stuff", I need someone to explain to me what brickwalling is, and how it is bad. Is it similar to low dynamic range?

 

[DC2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beyerfan70 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know there are many about this kind of thing but after my findings i just had to share my shock with someone. Ok so this evening i was a bit bored and decided to run some of my cds through my wave editor and i just couldn't believe what i found. Nearly every cd i own after 2000 is indeed bricked and pushing consistently over the limit. Ok not surprising i hear you say but we are not talking small,we are talking some big names here,some huge who to be honest i never thought would be a casualty of this. Some names include..... Shania twain Judus priest Megadeth Cky Aerosmith Sonic youth Status quo Whitesnake Rem Queen Madness Mick jagger The rolling stones And shockingly my favourite singer David bowie! (the heathen album is horrifyingly brickwalled) The alarming thing is is a good chunk of the names on here should really know better,i mean there are some top people working on some of these so surely the problem must lie with these so called mastering engineers,surely the artist didn't want the finished product like this. Not all was bad news though,names like..... Sting Electric light orchestra Diana krall Girlschool Pink floyd George harrison Candye kane Guns 'n roses Ozzy osbourne Iron maiden and a few others were nicely produced and mastered with loads of dynamics! It really shocked me to say the least. Especially when you consider some have been around for years. Certainly an eye opener,yikes i'm glad i still have a good turntable! If vinyl wasn't so expensive these days i dont think i would buy another cd.

Shania Twain - dude, what were you thinkin'?

Just Kidding.
There's only two reasons to listen to her...But I digress...

I'm afraid now to check my The Very Best of Dwight Yoakam cd (2002). I've always known it's much louder than many of my others and it has that 'mastered by Stephen Marcussen' on the inside liner.

 

[mwallace573]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beyerfan70 /img/forum/go_quote.gif And shockingly my favourite singer David bowie! (the heathen album is horrifyingly brickwalled)

Heathen actually isn't all that bad compared to Reality, which is one of the hottest albums in my collection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry, since I am new to this "hifi stuff", I need someone to explain to me what brickwalling is, and how it is bad. Is it similar to low dynamic range?

The short answer is yes. Here's some reading material for you.
Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SiriuslyCold]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry, since I am new to this "hifi stuff", I need someone to explain to me what brickwalling is, and how it is bad. Is it similar to low dynamic range?

it's dynamic range that's been squished so that everything is as loud as everything else - no highs no lows. Then the overall volume is raised so the whole thing sounds just very loud. This causes listening fatigue without the listener realizing what is happening to him.

read the link given by mwallace and watch the video in the link

more reading at Turn Me Up! | Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


Quote:

Originally Posted by non-entity /img/forum/go_quote.gif And when something's thought for radioplay there is an even bigger probability that it's very strong compressed.

the sick thing is radio stations already run everything through a compressor, so the studio-made compression isn't necessary.

To me - taking it to the extreme - it's a defective product (damaged dynamic range, missing parts of the recording I paid for in full etc etc) and if some lawyer's got nothing to do .... perhaps a class-action suit can be fabricated out of this. Not as if we could win it, but it'd raise awareness and cause people to boycott overcompressed recordings.

 

[blackbird]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold /img/forum/go_quote.gif it's dynamic range that's been squished so that everything is as loud as everything else - no highs no lows. Then the overall volume is raised so the whole thing sounds just very loud. This causes listening fatigue without the listener realizing what is happening to him. read the link given by mwallace and watch the video in the link more reading at Turn Me Up! | Bringing Dynamics Back To Music

hmm. Why not just turn up the overall loudness and leave the dynamic range alone?

Can anyone give me an example of an 08-09 release that has unaltered dynamic range?

Edit:
Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by non-entity View Post And when something's thought for radioplay there is an even bigger probability that it's very strong compressed. the sick thing is radio stations already run everything through a compressor, so the studio-made compression isn't necessary. To me - taking it to the extreme - it's a defective product (damaged dynamic range, missing parts of the recording I paid for in full etc etc) and if some lawyer's got nothing to do .... perhaps a class-action suit can be fabricated out of this. Not as if we could win it, but it'd raise awareness and cause people to boycott overcompressed recordings.

Wow, if its going to be compressed by the radio station anyway, why bother changing it on the cd. Ruins SQ, and also takes more work.

 

[SiriuslyCold]

A Caveat: compression is necessary during mastering. When used properly it makes for beautiful sounding records... when not used at all recordings can sound flat. Going overboard on compression is the problem here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird /img/forum/go_quote.gif hmm. Why not just turn up the overall loudness and leave the dynamic range alone?

this is a limitation of digital recording - the highest "level" is zero DB - and (this is clearer when you watch the Loudness War video) you cannot go louder than that. During any passage of recording, 0db happens when a snare is struck hard, for example ... then the rest falls below zero and averages quite low. So, to raise the overall volume you have to cut off the peaks (compress the dynamic range)


Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, if its going to be compressed by the radio station anyway, why bother changing it on the cd. Ruins SQ, and also takes more work.

this is due to people's perception and first impressions - when you test any number of CDs at the store, invariably people think the louder one is "better" especially playing them one after the other and only a few minutes of each.

Once the record company execs got wind of this things started escalating (or degenerating, as it were)

It's similar to the "trick" used by DTS - put everything 4db hot and when you switch from DD to DTS you go , "ooh DTS sounds better". When its actually all the same except for the mix usually

 

[tot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird /img/forum/go_quote.gif hmm. Why not just turn up the overall loudness and leave the dynamic range alone?

It is not possible, in digital domain the maximum volume is fixed, thus if you increase the volume you inevitably decrease the dynamic range.
Quote:

Can anyone give me an example of an 08-09 release that has unaltered dynamic range?

The latest very well mastered album I know is 2007 release of Shellac - Excellent Italian Greyhound. I haven't stumbled into anything good from 08-09 range yet.

 

[majid]

I think this is the single biggest reason why some people prefer vinyl to CDs. I listen mostly to classical music, which is not blighted by this phenomenon, so I am safe.

 

[Uncle Erik]

SiriuslyCold, I don't think a class action would go very far. I do agree with the sentiment.

What's infuriating is that these hot mixes are made to appeal to people who typically download their music for free. The $99 car subwoofer crowd doesn't exactly search out particular recordings and pay attention to recording engineers.

So this is done to appeal to people who won't pay for the product.

Brilliant. Their business model is to make crap for people who refuse to pay and then wring their hands and whine about piracy.

If they had a shred of sense, they would make good recordingsof good music for their paying customers.

Until that happens, I'll stick with my vinyl, used CDs and SACDs.

 

[salannelson]

I listen to jazz (mostly). Just pulled up Bitches Brew on Audacity...looks great. No clipping at all. And it's a brand CD.

 

[SiriuslyCold]

standards (or expectations) are low nowadays - even Elbow's 2008 release Seldom Seen Kid is hot compared to 80s CDs but is TurnMeUp "approved"

Elbow: The Seldom Seen Kid. Album Review | WhatTalent

Quote:

... apparently the album has been recorded using something called TurnMeUp™ technology, stating, and I quote, 'To preserve the excitement, emotion and dynamics of the original performances this recording is intentionally quieter than some. for full enjoyment simply Turn Me Up!'

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by salannelson /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listen to jazz (mostly). Just pulled up Bitches Brew on Audacity...looks great. No clipping at all. And it's a brand CD.

Probably because jazz is listened to by people who wouldn't tolerate that kind of abuse of their music.