[ChopaH]

I'm getting the ATH-M50's and want to combo them with a DAC/amp. I'll start with what I know (or at least what I believe to be true lol). I know the DAC changes the digital sound into analog sound which sounds better. And in order for the amp to have an effect it needs to be paired with a DAC. I've looked at pictures of amps and such and the Schiit Asgard fits my budget. I don't know if it's just an amp or also a DAC. If there are any others around this price range that are better please fill me in. I feel so dumb for asking but I've seen pictures of these things and Idk which cables go to what even. Maybe if someone would look at the same pictures as me and tell me what each one does and where you get the cable from.
 
http://schiit.com/products/asgard/ 
 
Right next to the big knob in front looks like the headphone jack. I know for sure a standard 3.5 doesn't fit. I'm thinking maybe the bigger jack adapter that comes with the headphone that you screw on is whats used? I've used 3.5 my whole life so I have no clue.
 
Onto the back...I'm seeing a power thing that I would assume goes into an outlet or maybe even a USB...probably outlet. The left and right or white and red slots are throwing me off. Idk if it's just me but those look bigger than normal lol. But as far as normal size I have a cable for that which I plug from a 3.5 jack into the red and white of my stereo system.
 
My conclusion (here's where I will more than likely start sounding like an idiot if I don't already lol).
You plug one of those red white cables into the machine and the other end (3.5 jack) goes into your listening device (lets say my phone).
You then plug the headphones (with the big jack adapter) into the headphone slot next to the knob in front.
 
This allows the audio from your device to go into the machine, where it then is converted into analog sound, and then goes out into your headphones.
 
If someone could pick this apart and help me better understand the concept of DAC's and amps that would be great lol...never used one in my life if you haven't guessed that already.
 
Thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[buffalowings]

Quote:

I'm getting the ATH-M50's and want to combo them with a DAC/amp. I'll start with what I know (or at least what I believe to be true lol). I know the DAC changes the digital sound into analog sound which sounds better. And in order for the amp to have an effect it needs to be paired with a DAC. I've looked at pictures of amps and such and the Schiit Asgard fits my budget. I don't know if it's just an amp or also a DAC. If there are any others around this price range that are better please fill me in. I feel so dumb for asking but I've seen pictures of these things and Idk which cables go to what even. Maybe if someone would look at the same pictures as me and tell me what each one does and where you get the cable from.
 
http://schiit.com/products/asgard/ 
 
Right next to the big knob in front looks like the headphone jack. I know for sure a standard 3.5 doesn't fit. I'm thinking maybe the bigger jack adapter that comes with the headphone that you screw on is whats used? I've used 3.5 my whole life so I have no clue.
 
Onto the back...I'm seeing a power thing that I would assume goes into an outlet or maybe even a USB...probably outlet. The left and right or white and red slots are throwing me off. Idk if it's just me but those look bigger than normal lol. But as far as normal size I have a cable for that which I plug from a 3.5 jack into the red and white of my stereo system.
 
My conclusion (here's where I will more than likely start sounding like an idiot if I don't already lol).
You plug one of those red white cables into the machine and the other end (3.5 jack) goes into your listening device (lets say my phone).
You then plug the headphones (with the big jack adapter) into the headphone slot next to the knob in front.
 
This allows the audio from your device to go into the machine, where it then is converted into analog sound, and then goes out into your headphones.
 
If someone could pick this apart and help me better understand the concept of DAC's and amps that would be great lol...never used one in my life if you haven't guessed that already.
 
Thanks in advance for any replies!

IMO (and many others) the M50 doesn't need a amp to sound it's best, when i paired it up with my total airhead, the differences were small enough to be unnoticeable.

 

[ChopaH]

Hmmm..that sounds great to me. No need to worry about all the other stuff then. But I suppose if I were to upgrade to higher end headphones I would like to know for future references though. Thanks for the input!

 

[DarkScythe]

DAC is a Digital-to-Analog Converter. It's not to change the "digital sound" to "analog sound" to make it "sound better" but rather, so that you can hear anything at all. It converts the files on your computer (MP3, FLAC, wav, aac, mp4, etc) into something meaningful for your ears. An amp is just an amplifier. Its purpose is to help drive less sensitive headphones more easily by providing more power to them. An amp is useless on its own, since it needs something to amplify. A DAC/amp is a unit with both functions combined. For example, a normal PC soundcard.
 
The Schiit is an amp only.
The plug on the front is a 1/4" jack. You will need a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter for your headphone, if it uses the 3.5mm mini jack.
The white and red jacks at the back are the RCA jacks, for each individual channel (left, and right.) There are RCA to stereo adapters available if you need them.
 
You would need a source (DAC) first to plug the Schiit into.
The cables should come out of your source (soundcard, or standalone DAC) from its line-out (constant level of power) into the red/white jacks on the Schiit.
The Schiit then amplifies the signal and puts it into the front, where you need to plug in your headphone (plus adapter) to be able to listen to it.
 
Hope that helps.

 

[buffalowings]

Quote:

Hmmm..that sounds great to me. No need to worry about all the other stuff then. But I suppose if I were to upgrade to higher end headphones I would like to know for future references though. Thanks for the input!

no problem, i would recommend starting as simply as possible, for starters, instead of a complete DAC/Amp combo for a phone (in the near future) that is harder to drive, try pairing it up with a amp first

 

[ChopaH]

Ok I felt sort of contradicted after reading both of those replies...
 
DarkScythe...you're saying in order to use an amp at all I need a DAC that will convert the mp3 files into something for the amp to even pick up? So I wouldn't be able to use the amp with my phone or computer until I have a DAC?
 
buffalowings...you're saying I should start off with just an amp for my phone instead of both a DAC and an amp?
 
I feel like you both told me the opposite thing...

 

[DarkScythe]

Your phone is a source as well; it has a DAC inside it. If it had no DAC, you would not be able to hear any of the music on your phone.
"DAC" on these forums generally refers to something a bit more dedicated to the task and generally higher quality though.
 
You can absolutely buy an amp to amplify the signal coming out of your phone.
The problem is that the quality of the signal coming out of any phone generally isn't that great (hence the saying garbage in > garbage out.) You would amplify the signal with all its artifacts and "impurities."
Not saying it won't work of course, an amp is just there to amplify things it's given; it's like a magnifying glass. It's generally recommended to help drive less sensitive headphones, so something like the M50 which are easy to drive, does not necessarily require one. Some will argue that amplification will always improve something though. But just like a magnifying glass, you'd want to magnify some artwork with nicely reproduced detail, and not a splotch of chalk on a concrete floor, if you catch what I mean.
 
Your computer, if it's at all recent should have a built-in soundcard on your motherboard (usually powered by Realtek nowadays) which serves the DAC functions, but like the phone, is generally noisy as well.
This is why when someone mentions "DAC" here, they usually mean a dedicated DAC, such as on a dedicated sound card (Creative's Sound Blaster / Audigy / X-Fi series, for example) or a completely external interface that connects to your PC using USB or FireWire (like my Echo Audiofire) and replaces the computer's onboard soundcard.
 
I'm having some trouble understanding what you're trying to do though.
Are you simply trying to listen to your phone and PC with the M50? In which case, just plug the M50 into their respective headphone jacks and call it a day.
If you're trying to consolidate both into one central interface for you to plug the headphones into so you can just toggle a switch though, then there are several ways to get creative with that.
 
It is tough though, and I'm relatively new to audio myself (though PC's are a hobby of mine, so I have a leg up there, at least.) Hope it helps.

 

[ChopaH]

Yeah I just want to listen to my phone and computer with my M50's. I just thought that since the soundcard of my laptop isn't very good, and I doubt my phone is much better, that my headphones wouldn't be as good as they could be if I had better quality devices. So I figured getting a DAC and amp would be my solution.
 
Thanks a lot for clearing that up. I don't think I will need to get either of those then. Do you think an external soundcard that plugs into the usb of my computer would be of benefit to me?

 

[DarkScythe]

Definitely.
However, whether or not you will be able to hear the differences, I can't say. Some people claim night and day differences, while others can't tell anything apart. Such is audio, since everyone has different ears.
If you decide to try something, I would recommend a place with a good return policy and/or a place that allows you to try out the different things. It may be a bit more difficult with DAC/soundcards though.
 
Otherwise, if you're just getting into it, it would be easiest to start off with a good DAC/amp combo unit. It minimizes cost, while giving you a taste of what's available.
Know that if you tread down this path, it will cost a lot (I keep track of my head-fi damage in my sig, so I have a number to curse head-fi with) and invariably you will end up with dedicated units for each section in the chain (DAC and amp.)
On the other hand, if you have fairly high willpower, you can probably get away with spending a lot less.
 
In either case, if you look for a standard PC/laptop soundcard, chances are it will come with a "headphone out" which is already amplified for you.
Whichever route you choose, figure out whether you want an add-in card (something you plug directly inside your PC/laptop) or an external unit (USB or Firewire, which helps portability, as you can use it on both a PC and laptop.)
 
If you want something to also plug your phone into, look for something with a "line in," although it's generally not a good idea to amp this again, since the phone's signal should already be amplified. This would result in "double amping" which isn't necessarily bad, but it's like stacking two magnifying glasses on top of each other. It can work, but most of the time, it's not pleasant to look at.

 

[dayamax]

Your phone/computer already has a DAC and amp inside (onboard sound). However, these are not that great (varies with what computer or phone or DAP you are using).
 
An external DAC connects to a computer via something like USB (or to a CD player). This will bypass the inbuilt DAC in your computer (and the digital to analog conversion will now be performed by said external DAC). The analog signal that the DAC produces is then fed to an amplifier via the RCA cables (red and white) which amplifies the signal and feeds it to your headphones.
If you buy an amp (say, Schiit Asgard), and use a 3.5 to RCA cable to connect your computer with it, it will be amplifying the signal coming out of your onboard DAC and amp. Some computers have a line out, which means that it is the output of the onboard DAC only (not the amp). You can connect this to your amp too.
 
Hope this helps.

 

[ChopaH]

Ok I think I'm going to get the Creative Labs Xmod.
 
Thanks for all the help guys. Definitely made things easier to understand.

 

[Yoga Flame]

The Creative Xmod is a nice little USB DAC. My favourite feature is the big metal knob on top for digital volume control. With the right software, this knob can be reprogrammed to do other things, like scrolling a web page or for gaming. The Xmod also has CMSS-3D, which simulates surround sound over normal stereo headphones or speakers. Then there is the X-Fi sound "enhancer", that makes music seem more engaging if you're using low end headphones.
 
The Xmod would replace your computer's onboard sound as the DAC. It has a 1/8" jack for headphones, and also another 1/8" line out jack for connecting to an amp.
 
However, I would not recommend buying the Creative Xmod if your main aim is to get better sound quality out of your M50s. The Xmod can make some lousy headphones seem less bad. The M50 is not one such headphone. In my experience, the Xmod is not a step up over my computer's onboard sound, but a step sideways. The M50s deserve better, in my opinion.
 
Still, it may be worth getting if the price is right, if only for the big volume knob.

 

[ChopaH]

Ok well I'm pretty positive it would be a step up from my laptop's current soundboard. If the Xmod isn't right for my headphones what other options would you suggest I look into?

 

[DarkScythe]

I can't say anything about that Creative Xmod, as I have no experience with it.
 
As far as suggestions go, I'd start with laying out a budget, music preferences, and expectations. Also any other physical hookups that you may require.
I'd imagine at this point you'd want a basic unit that has an integrated amp as well, but if you plan to "expand" in the future to a standalone amp, note that down as well.
 
As for audible differences, again remember that everyone has different ears, and more critically, different perceptions of the differences.
Going from my onboard Realtek to my Echo Audiofire could be "night and day" to some people, but I personally did not think it was too huge (slightly tighter bass, more peripheral detail.)
These differences are also what fuel endless debate on these boards.
For example, my Shure SRH-840. There are opinions on them anywhere from being bass-light to bass-heavy. It's dependent on everyone's ears, perception of the sound, musical preferences, and expectations.
I'd suggest you do more research of any and all suggestions given to you on these boards. Make sure you understand the reviewer's musical preferences when you read the reviews, so you have an idea of what to expect. (For example, if a "bass head" claims something is light on bass, take it as not enough bass for him, not necessarily no bass.)

 

[Yoga Flame]

Quote:

Ok well I'm pretty positive it would be a step up from my laptop's current soundboard. If the Xmod isn't right for my headphones what other options would you suggest I look into?

Looks like you got me there. I actually am not aware of any well regarded commercial DACs that can compete with the price of the Xmod.
 
The Alien DAC and GrubDAC are great budget D-I-Y DACs, possibly costing less than the Xmod, and certainly sounding better. But you have to build them yourself. If you don't fancy using a soldering iron, you could PM a pro builder like MisterX for a quote to custom build one for you.
 
As for good entry level commercial DAC/amps, you could look into the uDAC (either version 1 or 2), FiiO E7, Audinst HUD-mx1, or Headroom Total Bithead. HotAudio DAC Destroyer is also quite affordable, costing only a little more than the Xmod. Best to set a budget first, like DarkScythe said, and look up what is available at that price point.