[OCC7N]

For music only, you won't notice a thing.
If you use the DAC to watch video , then there is a mismatch on lip-synch, but it is fixable by delaying the video on your player by similar time latency.

Not gonna happen. The TT2 is off the list. Not gonna pay that amount of money, and it can not even do the simplest thing.

Thank you for the info

 

[ZappaMan]

Not gonna happen. The TT2 is off the list. Not gonna pay that amount of money, and it can not even do the simplest thing.

Thank you for the info

I never noticed any lag with mscaler tt2 connected to my tv using bypass mode.

 

[Kentajalli]

Not gonna happen. The TT2 is off the list. Not gonna pay that amount of money, and it can not even do the simplest thing.

Thank you for the info

If you want low latency, a cheap DAC (one with regular DAC chips) connected using SPDIF, will have next to no delay or lag, low enough for fastest quick draws on-line playing games (if you know how to set them up).
If you use Chord DACs, you are doing so for its unique reconstruction filter, which takes a lot of processing, a massive oversampling system. That means buffers and delay.
They are not really made for everyday tasks, such as TV or hands-free calling, they are made for MUSIC listening, primarily.
On that use, any latency is absolutely irrelevant! The worst you notice is a miniscule delay (hardly noticeable) between you pressing play and sound coming out of speakers.
Bear in mind that most players (such as jRiver @ 100ms default) add their own buffers for smooth playback, and ASIO drivers also employ buffers.
Player buffers and ASIO buffers add latency to any DAC, indeed it is recommended!
From onboard sound cards, all the way to any brand and model of DAC you care to name, including Chord.
You want fast-food, there is always a drive-through! You want gourmet restaurant, you pay your money and wait for chef.

 

[ra990]

Not gonna happen. The TT2 is off the list. Not gonna pay that amount of money, and it can not even do the simplest thing.

Thank you for the info

It should not be. You may have gotten bad information. I watch YouTube out of the TT2 all the time, there is no lag or delay or lip sync issues. The only time that this is an issue is when the MScaler is in the mix and it has a special "video" mode button that will reduce the delay to where that's not even noticeable.

The TT2 by itself doesn't have noticeable lag unless you have somehow manually increased the buffer value of your software or drivers to where it becomes an issue.

 

[ra990]

I never noticed any lag with mscaler tt2 connected to my tv using bypass mode.

Concur, not sure who is suggesting that there is any, but their configuration must be the issue. It's not the TT2.

 

[ra990]

In music production DAW/Audio/Midi. 50ms is a lot. Hearable. Chord has not a buffer adjustment to lower the latency is a big flaw to me.

I don´t accept anything over 10ms

Now you're talking about DAW usage, which is a different case and one I'm also very familiar with. I do agree that Chord DAC's aren't that great for tracking because of the > 20ms delay, but lip sync issues are not a concern at these values. Which do you care about? DAW/recording/tracking use or watching videos? The Chord DACs aren't ideal for the former, but have no issues with video playback/lip sync. For DAW usage, I would recommend a pro audio interface, like something from RME for the lowest latency ASIO drivers.

 

[Kentajalli]

I don't know if @OCC7N is genuinely asking a question, or is he making a statement, I am going to assume he is genuinely asking a question.
The issue of latency recently came up on ASR with hugo2, and a member actually measured latencies of various DACs, including Hugo2.
On ASIO USB input , for stability, the tester had to use 128 frames buffer minimum (a very low figure) and his results were these:

You can see that latencies vary from about 15ms to 0ver 40ms for other DACs and Hugo2 being highest at over 60ms.
So if @OCC7N needs no more than 10ms, USB is out of question! USB is Asynchronous and there is an ASIO buffer involved.
No luck there.
The tester, then, did another test with SPDIF interface. Optical (or coax) are synchronous interfaces, so there are no USB buffers involved. the results were:

Here you get no latency with chip-based DACs (Topping or RME), but Hugo2 is at 35ms.
Two reasons for this latency:
- Chord uses a small buffer on SPDIF to make sure it locks to the signal and reclock the signal (my understanding, correct me).
- Chord uses a long tap reconstruction filter, it has to look into the future and past to do its calculations to generate the inner samples, so it has to buffer.
The more taps, the larger the latency, as much as 660ms on mScaler, and 100ms on Dave.
Again, bear in mind that a software music player plus USB latencies together can be close to 150ms alone, on default settings. This is in addition to any latencies a DAC may have.

So, if @OCC7N requires no higher latency than 10ms (for any reason) , then the answer is clear:
Use a chip-based DAC with SPDIF connection, period.
Of course, this is not a shortcoming of Chord DACs.
Its like saying, A Porsche is out of question, I need to carry 2 tons of bricks with my car!
The Porsche is made for a different use.

 

[ra990]

I don't know if @OCC7N is genuinely asking a question, or is he making a statement, I am going to assume he is genuinely asking a question.
The issue of latency recently came up on ASR with hugo2, and a member actually measured latencies of various DACs, including Hugo2.
On ASIO USB input , for stability, the tester had to use 128 frames buffer minimum (a very low figure) and his results were these:


You can see that latencies vary from about 15ms to 0ver 40ms for other DACs and Hugo2 being highest at over 60ms.
So if @OCC7N needs no more than 10ms, USB is out of question! USB is Asynchronous and there is an ASIO buffer involved.
No luck there.
The tester, then, did another test with SPDIF interface. Optical (or coax) are synchronous interfaces, so there are no USB buffers involved. the results were:



Here you get no latency with chip-based DACs (Topping or RME), but Hugo2 is at 35ms.
Two reasons for this latency:
- Chord uses a small buffer on SPDIF to make sure it locks to the signal and reclock the signal (my understanding, correct me).
- Chord uses a long tap reconstruction filter, it has to look into the future and past to do its calculations to generate the inner samples, so it has to buffer.
The more taps, the larger the latency, as much as 660ms on mScaler, and 100ms on Dave.
Again, bear in mind that a software music player plus USB latencies together can be close to 150ms alone, on default settings. This is in addition to any latencies a DAC may have.

So, if @OCC7N requires no higher latency than 10ms (for any reason) , then the answer is clear:
Use a chip-based DAC with SPDIF connection, period.
Of course, this is not a shortcoming of Chord DACs.
Its like saying, A Porsche is out of question, I need to carry 2 tons of bricks with my car!
The Porsche is made for a different use.

Agreed, the issue is I'm not sure why he needs his latency this low. Clearly, if he is tracking with the Chord DAC in his DAW and needs 10ms or less, this is not the right gear to use. If he's concerned with lip sync issues with video, where even 100ms is barely noticeable, then this gear is not a problem. It depends on his use case and in his posts, he brings up both... @OCC7N I think we have given you all the information you would need to decide how to proceed based on your use case.

 

[OCC7N]

Agreed, the issue is I'm not sure why he needs his latency this low. Clearly, if he is tracking with the Chord DAC in his DAW and needs 10ms or less, this is not the right gear to use. If he's concerned with lip sync issues with video, where even 100ms is barely noticeable, then this gear is not a problem. It depends on his use case and in his posts, he brings up both... @OCC7N I think we have given you all the information you would need to decide how to proceed based on your use case.

100ms is barely noticaable????

I just talked with another guy who has the Hugo. He said it was obvious latency on his computer. Movies and Games.

Things that expensive should not be anywhere close to 50ms. ...Yes 10ms

Buffer size never bigger than 256(for playback, not tracking). If a dac can not handle this. Its not in my preference list.

On DAW its totally different thing. I sometimes choose 1024 for buffer because of the size of the arrangement. Placback not tracking.

Its not a matter of tracking. Latency is latency.

My iFi Diablo does this flawlessly in Reaper Cubase og Logic Pro. Even my zen dac did this!

 

[OCC7N]

It should not be. You may have gotten bad information. I watch YouTube out of the TT2 all the time, there is no lag or delay or lip sync issues. The only time that this is an issue is when the MScaler is in the mix and it has a special "video" mode button that will reduce the delay to where that's not even noticeable.

The TT2 by itself doesn't have noticeable lag unless you have somehow manually increased the buffer value of your software or drivers to where it becomes an issue.

Well. I am not really going to use it for DAW. I was just referencing, that 50ms is alot, specially when recording midi. In audio forget it.....

My intentions is not use it in DAW, for tracking, because TT2 is not meant for that. Right?

But if it has 60ms latency in games like FPS games, Rocket League or any other game, it will eventually be noticed on a display with a latency of 1-5ms.

I really wanted the TT2 and the latency is a dealbreaker for me. Sorry

 

[OCC7N]

I never noticed any lag with mscaler tt2 connected to my tv using bypass mode.

How about gaming on PC?

 

[Kentajalli]

I really wanted the TT2 and the latency is a dealbreaker for me. Sorry

That is fair enough comment, nobody is forcing you to get the DAC, so don't be sorry.
It is a case of Horses for Courses.
BTW, screen latency has nothing to do with this at all!
But in a gaming environment, it is a case of a Human player being able to react to sound clues in under a tenth of a second (100ms), any Quick-draw who can, better not consider Chord DACs.
In case of lip-synch on a video, I say 100ms is towards the edge of being noticeable.

 

[ZappaMan]

How about gaming on PC?

I never noticed it but was I playing dcs

 

[Rebel Chris]

No problem playing Battlefield 3 on my pc with my TT2

 

[OCC7N]

No problem playing Battlefield 3 on my pc with my TT2

That is very good to hear. Are you using a special driver. Generic ASIO...or just the official driver from the official website?