[alekc]

@Currawong, I wonder if I’m missing something in this discussion. What exactly is the point of trying to drive a pair of headphones, or speakers for that matter, to the point that one hears obvious distortion and clipping of the drivers? Is this a test that you frequently do yourself when evaluating different gear to see what the performance limits might be? Personally I try to keep my music listening levels between 80 and 85db’s at the most because I want to protect my hearing. I enjoyed your YouTube review of the TT2 and M Scaler from 2 days ago. Do you feel that the Chord DAVE DAC offers so much more listening enjoyment than the TT2 that it is worth the extra expense? After listening to both I picked the TT2 because I believe that it offers a more “musical” presentation than the DAVE. But your reference to the DAVE at the end of your video got me thinking about it again.

@bpcans take it form a man who does not make any reviews and who doesn't need to worry about freebies from audio manufactures (no offence to Currawong and his work; just making my general point): for me TT2 with M Scaler is endgame as far as Chord is concerned. I could have Dave for similar amount but just like you I prefer TT2 sound signature. In fact I think Mojo 2 with DSP is so great that I could live with it in desktop mode + some amp if I haven't gotten TT2 earlier. On the other hand - call it a coloration or whatever else anyone likes - only with M Scaler TT2 gets sound smoothness I get from Rockna WaveLight alone. Yet both dacs sometimes excels in other areas.

IMHO: the problem with Dave is that it can really be great, until you will not put another great dac side by side and have time to compare both carefully.

 

[bpcans]

https://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/power-supplies/dc4-power-supply @alekc, If I got the DAVE I’d also want to get this power supply for it because from what I’ve read, and heard for myself, it sounds absolutely delicious with the DAVE.

 

[rocketron]

It wants to sound like Archangel Gabriel for £4000 for a power conditioner.

 

[rocketron]

Sorry I forgot it’s April fools day.

 

[801evan]

The original question came up because someone on Facebook (yeah, yeah, I know) said that they tried driving Susvaras with both a Hugo 2 and a TT2 and reckoned that the TT2 clipped earlier, in reply to my posting my TT2 review video. I know that this simply isn't possible, so I tested it. It matched up with the technical limits we know.

Something to note: High sound pressure levels (high SPL) are easier to generate with low-frequency sounds, and don't come across as being as loud as high frequency sounds at the same SPL. There is a lot more air being moved, though.

I'm the same though -- I don't listen loud, and I rarely listen to tracks with action-movie levels of bass. There are a lot of things people do in the hobby that I don't, and I try and understand those things at least so I can talk or write about them in reviews. The more use cases I cover, the more useful the review.

As for the DAVE/TT2 discussion: Myself, and a couple of other people decided that that extra insight into the music the DAVE gives was better. Yourself and other people are happy with the TT2, likely because of the better headphone drive. There's no "wrong" here. There are a whole other bunch of people who decided they enjoy R2R DACs more, and enjoy that extra coloration. There's nothing wrong with that either, as music in and of itself is the act of creating distortions and harmonics in air, and some people like that added to, and some people like to hear what was created as close as possible.

One tt2 owner was saying the tracks was clipping on his and claims tt2 lacks power. I said if the Hugo 2 can drive it, as shown by my demo, then for sure the tt2 can.

 

[rkt31]

There is a sound level which correctly communicates the depth cues and staging of recordings. You go very high or very low then that perception is lost. The reference to set that level is like a singer is singing in front of you. For instrumental music also brain can find an average level which is like a live performance in front of you. Surprisingly these levels are easily achievable even with hard to drive headphones. I used dt880 600ohm with Hugo , Hugo 2 and mojo and never needed to go beyond light blue volume. I currently use r70x with mojo 2 and tt2 and never needed to go beyond yellow- green with mojo 2 and -18L or so with TT2, except in movies where down mixing to stereo results in low volume. Even in movies I never required to go beyond green to light blue in mojo 2 with r70x. Most of the time, this lack of power issue is psychological. Chord dacs have digital attenuation, so as long as you are below 0db you are perfectly ok.

 

[galacticsoap]

Hi Everyone, I am thoroughly enjoying listening to my Abyss TC's via the M-Scaler & TT2. I am listening to the TC's via the single-ended output, and am looking forward to trying them via the balanced connections when I get the appropriate adapter made up.

The TT2 replaced an MSB Discrete DAC with Dual Discrete Power Supplies and a Hypex Class D amplifier which is what I was previously using to drive the TC's. While I've sacrificed some sound-stage depth, I've gained a tonality and immediacy of sound that works better (than the excellent MSB + Hypex combo) with the IDM I listen to.

I would love your thoughts on what sequence of upgrades I should look at investing in as I look to maximise this combo, my reading suggests the order of upgrades should go as follows:

1) Dual Wave Storm Reference BNC's
2) Dual Line PS's in the vein of dual Paul Hynes SR4's/Single SR7/Farad etc
3) Dual top-tier USB cables (Sablon 2020/Shunyata Alpha) between my Phoenix & M-Scaler

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[alekc]

Hi Everyone, I am thoroughly enjoying listening to my Abyss TC's via the M-Scaler & TT2. I am listening to the TC's via the single-ended output, and am looking forward to trying them via the balanced connections when I get the appropriate adapter made up.

The TT2 replaced an MSB Discrete DAC with Dual Discrete Power Supplies and a Hypex Class D amplifier which is what I was previously using to drive the TC's. While I've sacrificed some sound-stage depth, I've gained a tonality and immediacy of sound that works better (than the excellent MSB + Hypex combo) with the IDM I listen to.

I would love your thoughts on what sequence of upgrades I should look at investing in as I look to maximise this combo, my reading suggests the order of upgrades should go as follows:

1) Dual Wave Storm Reference BNC's
2) Dual Line PS's in the vein of dual Paul Hynes SR4's/Single SR7/Farad etc
3) Dual top-tier USB cables (Sablon 2020/Shunyata Alpha) between my Phoenix & M-Scaler

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

@galacticsoap before investing into BNC cables like WaveStorm a pile of cash that can be used to buy another great setup I would reconsider if you really want to stay with M Scaled TT2... there are so many other DACs that IMHO are better, however:

1) I'm not listening to IDM so my expectation for final sound maybe different
2) Reading your post it seems to me that you want to stay with M Scaler and TT2

For me 2 biggest upgrades were:

1) AuroraSound HEADA headphone amp (without it I could barely listen to M Scaled TT2 alone unless using IEMs only)
2) my recent addition: Mytek Libery THX AAA HPA - it is so transparent and dynamic that it turns out it makes great pairing with TT2 and cost less than half of HEADA (no, it still can not beat HEADA in my book but it is great amp, especially considering price tag).

I'm also not interested into investing into both extremely expensive BNC or USB cables. I've had one of more expensive USB cables in my systems and there was zero difference in sound.

 

[rkt31]

Hi Everyone, I am thoroughly enjoying listening to my Abyss TC's via the M-Scaler & TT2. I am listening to the TC's via the single-ended output, and am looking forward to trying them via the balanced connections when I get the appropriate adapter made up.

The TT2 replaced an MSB Discrete DAC with Dual Discrete Power Supplies and a Hypex Class D amplifier which is what I was previously using to drive the TC's. While I've sacrificed some sound-stage depth, I've gained a tonality and immediacy of sound that works better (than the excellent MSB + Hypex combo) with the IDM I listen to.

I would love your thoughts on what sequence of upgrades I should look at investing in as I look to maximise this combo, my reading suggests the order of upgrades should go as follows:

1) Dual Wave Storm Reference BNC's
2) Dual Line PS's in the vein of dual Paul Hynes SR4's/Single SR7/Farad etc
3) Dual top-tier USB cables (Sablon 2020/Shunyata Alpha) between my Phoenix & M-Scaler

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

(1) No linear power supply will beat 12v ups battery for tt2 and m scaler. Rob himself recommend battery. (2) try a better measuring headphone like dan Clark audio stealth. Again rob himself use this. (3) my m scaler and tt2 is in speaker system with benchmark ahb2. I occasionally use r70x with se out of tt2 and no wonder the experience is out of this world kind of. (4) abyss headphones though highly regarded but measured very poor specially in distortion by ASR. (5) I am currently very happy with mojo 2 and r70x combo and even he400se with slight EQ in mojo 2. Mojo 2 lends so much ease of use as compared to desktop setups. (6) more difficult to drive and power hungry headphones like abyss are not the guarantee of accurate sound as also clear by measurements. A flat fr headphone like r70x or hd560s can be much more musical experience than poor measuring expensive stuff.

 

[galacticsoap]

Thanks for your insights & contributions @alekc & @rkt31.

While I have no doubt the amplifier section of the TT2 could be improved upon via a dedicated headphone amplifier, the use case I sought to cater for when purchasing it was for a small-factor DAC/AMP combo. @alekc , perhaps the Mytek Liberty Liberty HPA w/ Mytek Brookly Bridge also qualifies under this criteria and is something to consider. Thank you for making me aware of it.

@rkt31 , while there's a ton of irrefutable and objective evidence to support the ASR view of the audiophile/headfi world my experience has been at odds with some of their findings. Without wanting this to go down that particular rabbit hole, I will say that while the Abyss may measure worse than the examples recommended on ASR, the satisfaction it gives me when it reproduces the music I listen to is priceless, and something I feel incredibly privileged to experience. As such, I am not looking at purchasing a second pair/different set of can's, because one pair of headphone's do it all for me, and those headphone's are the Abyss TC's. Am I suggesting that ASR's findings are wrong? Definitely not, I just subscribe to a different experience that sits outside what ASR define as musical and accurate. To each their own.

 

[rkt31]

Thanks for your insights & contributions @alekc & @rkt31.

While I have no doubt the amplifier section of the TT2 could be improved upon via a dedicated headphone amplifier, the use case I sought to cater for when purchasing it was for a small-factor DAC/AMP combo. @alekc , perhaps the Mytek Liberty Liberty HPA w/ Mytek Brookly Bridge also qualifies under this criteria and is something to consider. Thank you for making me aware of it.

@rkt31 , while there's a ton of irrefutable and objective evidence to support the ASR view of the audiophile/headfi world my experience has been at odds with some of their findings. Without wanting this to go down that particular rabbit hole, I will say that while the Abyss may measure worse than the examples recommended on ASR, the satisfaction it gives me when it reproduces the music I listen to is priceless, and something I feel incredibly privileged to experience. As such, I am not looking at purchasing a second pair/different set of can's, because one pair of headphone's do it all for me, and those headphone's are the Abyss TC's. Am I suggesting that ASR's findings are wrong? Definitely not, I just subscribe to a different experience that sits outside what ASR define as musical and accurate. To each their own.

Why you don't consider the amp section as not dedicated ? What it is not having which a dedicated amp has ? Does a dedicated amp has some special components ? Amp is amp. Tt2 has an amp with an ultra low output impedance and super caps. How adding one more chain in the form of dedicated amp will help ? Did you know a modern dac with 2v output can drive most headphones to good levels but you can't connect headphones to a dac output directly because output does not have sufficiently low output impedance and there is no volume control. Tt2 obviates both these limitations by innovative approach and you can save on amp plus you get more transparency because of single output stage .

 

[bpcans]

Hi Everyone, I am thoroughly enjoying listening to my Abyss TC's via the M-Scaler & TT2. I am listening to the TC's via the single-ended output, and am looking forward to trying them via the balanced connections when I get the appropriate adapter made up.

The TT2 replaced an MSB Discrete DAC with Dual Discrete Power Supplies and a Hypex Class D amplifier which is what I was previously using to drive the TC's. While I've sacrificed some sound-stage depth, I've gained a tonality and immediacy of sound that works better (than the excellent MSB + Hypex combo) with the IDM I listen to.

I would love your thoughts on what sequence of upgrades I should look at investing in as I look to maximise this combo, my reading suggests the order of upgrades should go as follows:

1) Dual Wave Storm Reference BNC's
2) Dual Line PS's in the vein of dual Paul Hynes SR4's/Single SR7/Farad etc
3) Dual top-tier USB cables (Sablon 2020/Shunyata Alpha) between my Phoenix & M-Scaler

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

@galacticsoap, I’ve been down this upgrade avenue before myself with the TT2 and the M Scaler. Here’s how it worked out for me. I had the Qutest connected to my MacBook Pro using an AQ Diamond USB cable which I still have. I traded the Qutest for the TT2, and the Hugo M Scaler(HMS) came along shortly thereafter. I bought a pair of Moon Audio Silver Dragon BNC’s which were a huge improvement of the stock cables from Chord. Next came my first 15-16v Sbooster LPS that helped the musics clarity and definition. More so with the HMS than with the TT2, but I was now convinced that clean power was going to be crucial in putting my system together so I got a 2nd Sbooster for the TT2. I started reading more about what I should do next, and I became aware of Nick Bacon, aka @Triode User, and his marvelous WAVE Storm BNC cables, which I personally think are an integral component in any setup that uses a DAVE or TT2 DAC with a Chord HMS.

The great thing about dealing with Nick is that he is really helpful, and was super patient when I was asking him my novice and simple questions thru email about what his cables were meant to do and why I should give them a try. He’s got this awesome money back guarantee that took a lot of pressure off of my reticence to “invest” in such a crazy thing as a boutique audio cable. I’ve turned a few folks on to the WAVE Storm BNC’s, and none of them has sent them back as far as I know.

So my recommendation would be to get a not so crazy expensive pair of good BNC’s first, that is unless you want to, I say try the WAVE Storm’s, so that you can concentrate on putting together a solid power supply chain from your wall socket to your Abyss 1266 TC’s. IMHO having clean power is so overlooked that many folks get caught up in buying and switching between perfectly good gear to find a sound signature that pleases them, that they go on without the understanding that nothing is going to sound good if they’ve got “dirty electricity” running through their mains. I use an AudioQuest Niagara 1200 power conditioner and an AQ Thunder power cable from my wall socket to power all of my components.

Lastly, when I got a third WAVE Storm BNC to use with an Audiowise SRC.DX USB to XLR converter, going from my music server to bypass the Amanero USB input of my HMS, the music took on a whole new level of clarity and instrument separation. https://audiowise-canada.myshopify.com/products/src-dx. I wouldn’t worry about your USB cable from your Phoenix to your HMS yet. Though I really want to try the latest Sablon USB when I get a chance.

 

[x RELIC x]

Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought you were making a point about the track not being worthy of a test track because of the bass levels in it. It's a professionally mastered track and even though it was in a film soundtrack, it was mastered for CD/streaming so it's not like you're listening to some weird theater mix.

Professionally mastered doesn’t always mean flawless. Adele and Amy Winehouse masters are riddled with digital clipping.

 

[Amberlamps]

Professionally mastered doesn’t always mean flawless. Adele and Amy Winehouse masters are riddled with digital clipping.

Thats not clipping, it’s probably just her being wasted when the recordings were made.

But it probably is clipping

 

[Somatic]

Can you plug and unplug a headphone while the TT2 is on? When switching to Susvara to something like Arya I do not hear a pop or anything.

I hear this should not be done with power amp but am unsure with the TT2 in amp mode.