[ra990]

Are MScaler users also EQ'ing their music? I'm wondering if that defeats the scaling as much as feeding it an already upsampled signal. I've been playing with EQ more and I do think I'm noticing a less fatiguing sound after correcting some peaks with EQ. Thoughts?

 

[Vyyy]

I personally equalized music with foobar2000 7years back when i had simple and plain NAD and Dali speaker setup. Never ever i will do that with Chord ) And no need, i am satisfied with reproduction of sound i get.

 

[Triode User]

Are MScaler users also EQ'ing their music? I'm wondering if that defeats the scaling as much as feeding it an already upsampled signal. I've been playing with EQ more and I do think I'm noticing a less fatiguing sound after correcting some peaks with EQ. Thoughts?

No, I have never had the need for EQ when using Chord DACs. If you were getting fatigue it is better sorted by tackling the cause rather than trying EQ it away.

 

[Glossator]

I am sure Rob has posted that, if EQ is required, he prefers to approach it in the physical rather than the digital domain.

At a very simple level, given the difficulties (to which the length of this thread attests!) of optimising reproduction of a digital signal in an analogue domain (be it via headphones or speakers), it always seems to me that if you fiddle further in the digital domain via EQ you are likely (certainly with the current state of knowledge), like Sisyphus, to find the rock you have tried so hard to roll up the hill come quickly rolling down again.

(That said, I know that some with very transparent systems seem to be giving EQ a go and to be pleased with results).

 

[TopQuark]

Are MScaler users also EQ'ing their music? I'm wondering if that defeats the scaling as much as feeding it an already upsampled signal. I've been playing with EQ more and I do think I'm noticing a less fatiguing sound after correcting some peaks with EQ. Thoughts?

It depends on your output speakers or headphones. For headphones, personally, I do perform EQ on all my headphones using ROON. It's the only way to make the soundstage larger and more transparent in a lot of cases. I'm sure some will question if it does impact transparency but it does have that illusion in my case in a positive way.

 

[burbster]

Are MScaler users also EQ'ing their music? I'm wondering if that defeats the scaling as much as feeding it an already upsampled signal. I've been playing with EQ more and I do think I'm noticing a less fatiguing sound after correcting some peaks with EQ. Thoughts?

I use to use EQ on my speaker system to compensate for a poor room, that gave a net gain but only when I used it to correct frequencies below 200hz and never boosted any frequency. I definitely feel, at least using roon or auralic‘s lightning Ds, there is a slight dip in sound quality. I no longer use any dsp.

 

[ecwl]

Are MScaler users also EQ'ing their music? I'm wondering if that defeats the scaling as much as feeding it an already upsampled signal. I've been playing with EQ more and I do think I'm noticing a less fatiguing sound after correcting some peaks with EQ. Thoughts?

I do with my speakers, not with my headphones. This is because my room acoustics is a complete mess but I didn’t want to turn my living room into a hifi store. But I agree with @burbster that you always lose a little bit of sonic quality with EQ on. I’ve tried parametric EQ just to tune out the primary bass issues and now I use a fairly complicated convolution filter. The thing i notice the most is a subtle loss in soundstage depth. Now my bass frequency issues are such a mess that without EQ the bass blurs to a point where I would also have lots of soundstage issues so the gains I get outweigh the losses. I also found that with a convolution filter, the less aggressive it is (as in the less it lowers the overall volume level), the less loss there is to soundstage depth (and sometimes micro details). My gut feeling is that if you’re asking the question, you need good EQ because it is rare that significant bass EQ issues can be easily solved with physical room acoustic treatments (aside from moving your listening seat). You were just have to assess with your own ears whether the gains of EQ outweighs the sonic deterioration in your system. That said, I’ve read some EQ experts who insist that there is never any sonic losses but I just think their systems are not sufficiently transparent or they just don’t know what to listen for. So if you don’t hear any negatives from EQ, then kudos to you

 

[burbster]

I do with my speakers, not with my headphones. This is because my room acoustics is a complete mess but I didn’t want to turn my living room into a hifi store. But I agree with @burbster that you always lose a little bit of sonic quality with EQ on. I’ve tried parametric EQ just to tune out the primary bass issues and now I use a fairly complicated convolution filter. The thing i notice the most is a subtle loss in soundstage depth. Now my bass frequency issues are such a mess that without EQ the bass blurs to a point where I would also have lots of soundstage issues so the gains I get outweigh the losses. I also found that with a convolution filter, the less aggressive it is (as in the less it lowers the overall volume level), the less loss there is to soundstage depth (and sometimes micro details). My gut feeling is that if you’re asking the question, you need good EQ because it is rare that significant bass EQ issues can be easily solved with physical room acoustic treatments (aside from moving your listening seat). You were just have to assess with your own ears whether the gains of EQ outweighs the sonic deterioration in your system. That said, I’ve read some EQ experts who insist that there is never any sonic losses but I just think their systems are not sufficiently transparent or they just don’t know what to listen for. So if you don’t hear any negatives from EQ, then kudos to you

Totally agree with your comment on sound stage depth, that is my experience as well.

 

[ecwl]

I'm wondering if that defeats the scaling as much as feeding it an already upsampled signal. I've been playing with EQ more and I do think I'm noticing a less fatiguing sound after correcting some peaks with EQ. Thoughts?

I forgot to comment on this part. If you’re going to EQ (or run a convolution filter), you should NOT do sample rate conversion or upsampling with the EQ/DSP. I always keep the sample rate of the original signal the same and then feed it into M-Scaler. If you run say Dirac or an external EQ device and go from 44.1kHz to 96kHz and then feed it into M-Scaler, the sound becomes a complete mess because you would lose tons of transient and timbral accuracy.
So for example, if you’re running Roon, parametric EQ’s are always done without sample rate conversion. But if you’re running convolution filters, you need to make sure you have a convolution filter for each sample rate.

 

[ra990]

Yea, I definitely find there's a hit to transparency with EQ, but as long as the EQ is not doing anything too crazy (I find adjustments of +/- 5db at the most) it is negligible. I also agree with you on keeping the sample rate original. I did try in Roon to upsample since I was applying EQ anyway and noticed that it was noticeably worse. I wanted to create a good EQ profile for the Abyss so I can use it if I find the music needs it. I usually keep it off because I don't like messing with the bitperfect output, but sometimes a peaky or badly recorded track calls for it and it's easy enough to toggle the EQ on and off in Roon.

 

[Ciggavelli]

I got my DC4 for the M-Scaler (got the DAVE one last week). Adding these two power supplies has basically transformed the mDAVE into a new dac. Highly recommended

 

[burbster]

I got my DC4 for the M-Scaler (got the DAVE one last week). Adding these two power supplies has basically transformed the mDAVE into a new dac. Highly recommended

Wow! Nice! Just ordered one for my Dave, would love to know what sort of benefits adding one to the Mscaler brings. I currently use a fairly modest MCRU linear supply for my Mscaler.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Wow! Nice! Just ordered one for my Dave, would love to know what sort of benefits adding one to the Mscaler brings. I currently use a fairly modest MCRU linear supply for my Mscaler.

Somehow even more of a blacker background, which enhances other aspects (dynamics and soundstage). And it still needs like a month or two to break in fully, so hopefully it’ll sound even better in the future too

 

[Christer]

Somehow even more of a blacker background, which enhances other aspects (dynamics and soundstage). And it still needs like a month or two to break in fully, so hopefully it’ll sound even better in the future too

Hmm,?? This recurring talk about "blacker background", is something that surprises me a bit.

The only improvement I personally want is more resolution and transparency and a notably LOWER noise floor.
Simply less digital hiss intruding.

A black background reminds me too much of low res digital no man´s land.

A well made recording of acoustic music should imo,ideally reveal and make the acoustics of the venue more audible and better defined.
A real music performance or recording venue is NEVER "black" or completely silent.
There is ALWAYS some venue ambience, air and space, audible in a real acoustic enviroment like a concert hall.

Ok, in the Amplified instruments genres where performers often do not hear each other playing, more than via headphones, we can talk about black backgrund ,dead acoustic.
But to me ,it is not desirable!
If by "blacker background" you actually mean LOWER noise floor I get it.

My own most recent experiences of notably lower noise floor than even via Mscaler are the few testfiles of large scale symphonic music PPGB´d I have so far.
With those apart from an increase in resolution of low level detail I can also hear more of the acoustic footprint of the venue.
And the diffence is audible to me via USB direct from my humble Qutest both via headphones and speakers.
Cheers CC

 

[bpcans]

I got my DC4 for the M-Scaler (got the DAVE one last week). Adding these two power supplies has basically transformed the mDAVE into a new dac. Highly recommended

Ciggavelli, congratulations on the power supply upgrades to your DAVE and the M Scaler. I’m a huge proponent of clean power in my listening chain because IMO it makes a huge difference, and is the most overlooked aspect when folks are putting their hi-fi systems together. I’m not swimming in the same deep audio gear waters as you sir, though I wouldn’t mind getting my feet a little wetter. I do use the adequately efficient Sbooster LPSU’s on my HMS/TT2 combo that are connected to the decent AudioQuest Niagara 1200 power conditioner, and which is plugged into the wall using an AQ Thunder power cable. I think if more folks thought about upgrading their power chains instead of searching for another flavour of DAC or upsampler, they’d be a lot happier with the audio gear that they already have.