Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[ra990]

so when you charge it, do you plug the cable in and remove the cable when you're listening? I'm trying to avoid the plug/unplug cycle unless the value of using the battery is only/maximized when a physical separation from the main occurs. If a standby situation, such as a switch works then that's useful to know.

Yes, I make sure there's no connection to the mains when listening by disconnecting the charge cable from my electrical outlet.

 

[JohnA1]

so when you charge it, do you plug the cable in and remove the cable when you're listening? I'm trying to avoid the plug/unplug cycle unless the value of using the battery is only/maximized when a physical separation from the main occurs. If a standby situation, such as a switch works then that's useful to know.

The other way round - it is charging while I listen and unplugged when I finish. No difference to the sound whatsoever, maybe it helps that I have a dedicated line for the HiFi.
You could easily unplug the charging while listening if it makes a difference on your setup. In any case you avoid ground loops without fancy cables or linear power supplies, plus you can use the battery bank for your laptop when travelling! What's not to like

 

[genefruit]

The other way round - it is charging while I listen and unplugged when I finish. No difference to the sound whatsoever, maybe it helps that I have a dedicated line for the HiFi.
You could easily unplug the charging while listening if it makes a difference on your setup. In any case you avoid ground loops without fancy cables or linear power supplies, plus you can use the battery bank for your laptop when travelling! What's not to like

Yes, I make sure there's no connection to the mains when listening by disconnecting the charge cable from my electrical outlet.

So one person listens while it's charging, thus plugged in and one person disconnects when listening. Guess I should do my assessment but is there a thought on whether an electrical switch such as a power strip is the equivalent to disconnecting the charge cable?

 

[Gadget67]

So one person listens while it's charging, thus plugged in and one person disconnects when listening. Guess I should do my assessment but is there a thought on whether an electrical switch such as a power strip is the equivalent to disconnecting the charge cable?

I have the same batteries as @ra990. I am only using a battery connection for the M-Scaler and it IS NOT plugged into an outlet when I’m using it. I use the on-off switch on the battery to turn the M-Scaler on and off so when I stop listening I switch the battery off which (obviously) also turns off the M-Scaler. I switch batteries when the one I’m using is almost discharged and then plug it into the charger so I always have at least one fully charged battery. While I haven’t actually timed it I’m guessing I get about 20+ hours of listening time before a recharge. The battery can of course be used when it is also charging but I haven’t done a comparison. I’m assuming using a power strip would really be no different than plugging directly into a wall outlet but nothing surprises me anymore so maybe there is a difference!

 

[ra990]

It makes no sense to leave the battery plugged into the mains while listening. The point is to isolate the system from the mains and any other sources of RF/EMI.

 

[genefruit]

It makes no sense to leave the battery plugged into the mains while listening. The point is to isolate the system from the mains and any other sources of RF/EMI.

I'm almost at the point of understanding. The system is not isolated if it's physically connected, regardless if electricity is running to it or not. Is this correct?

 

[Gadget67]

It makes no sense to leave the battery plugged into the mains while listening. The point is to isolate the system from the mains and any other sources of RF/EMI.

I initially didn’t believe significant RFI was even a problem for me because I live in an isolated rural setting. It literally only took a few seconds of listening after connecting the M-Scaler to the battery to realize how wrong I was. I’ll likely try listening by using the battery while it is charging just to satisfy my curiosity, but otherwise it seems that would just turn it into another version of a PSU. Really, the change was huge and there is no going back!

 

[ra990]

I'm almost at the point of understanding. The system is not isolated if it's physically connected, regardless if electricity is running to it or not. Is this correct?

Depends on how OCD you are and how isolated you want to be. Only way to be 100% isolated is to not have any connections to mains.

 

[genefruit]

I initially didn’t believe significant RFI was even a problem for me because I live in an isolated rural setting. It literally only took a few seconds of listening after connecting the M-Scaler to the battery to realize how wrong I was. I’ll likely try listening by using the battery while it is charging just to satisfy my curiosity, but otherwise it seems that would just turn it into another version of a PSU. Really, the change was huge and there is no going back!

I have two RAVPOWER batteries, 1 to the Mscaler and 1 to the TT2. The batteries are clearly better than the mains in my setup. I've gone through a couple of configurations in the last 48 hours trying to determine if there is a difference between:

the batteries being plugged in with no electricity running to them via a power strip
the batteries being plugged in with electricity charging them and running the Chord devices (pass through charging)
the batteries being unplugged and running the Chord devices

I've even hooked up my source (Mac Mini) to one of the batteries to remove it from the mains as well for some testing.

Early take is I'm not noticing a difference between the configurations but it could be me.

 

[ra990]

I have two RAVPOWER batteries, 1 to the Mscaler and 1 to the TT2. I've gone through a couple of configurations in the last 48 hours trying to determine if there is a difference between:

the batteries being plugged in with no electricity running to them via a power strip
the batteries being plugged in with electricity charging them and running the Chord devices (pass through charging)
the batteries being unplugged and running the Chord devices

Early take is I'm not noticing a difference but it could be me.

No, you are not likely able to tell the difference between them because it's really difficult, especially with quick comparisons! You might notice it during longer sessions in terms of how fatiguing your listening is. Also the effects of this stuff varies quite a bit from system to system, user to user.

 

[genefruit]

No, you are not likely to able to tell the difference between them because it's really difficult, especially with quick comparisons! You might notice it during longer sessions in terms of how fatiguing your listening is. Also the effects of this stuff varies quite a bit from system to system, user to user.

That was my suspicion but it's easy to A/B the first two options with a flick of the switch. What I can say in my system the batteries have made a positive difference.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

I decided to give this one a try because the previous one had issues of running too hot.

http://www.litionite.com/product/tanker/

Any reason it wouldn't be a good match for the M Scaler from the specs?

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I decided to give this one a try because the previous one had issues of running too hot.

http://www.litionite.com/product/tanker/

Any reason it wouldn't be a good match for the M Scaler from the specs?

I have the same tanker.
Sounds worse than stock SMPS - at least in my system.
But please report back your findings.

Oh small addition
-in my case sound was the best using it's 9v output
- sound was getting worse with 12v
- didn't try 16v setting - maybe it could sneak just under the 15v max input of the m scaler but I didn't try + I'm pretty sure it would sound worse than 9v
- it seems like dc to dc converters (at least in this powerbank) produce more noise as you increase the voltage
- I'm not sure how valid it was - but I measured AC voltage output from the powerbank and with higher voltage there was higher noise getting through - with stock SMPS I couldn't measure any
- so 9V sounded the best but still worse than stock SMPS

 

[LucyWu]

Whilst I am sure that isolating power supply to the MScaler is a GOOD THING, I cannot help thinking these complex battery solutions between the battery and the output may not deliver all the potential benefits of ditching the SMPS. Unless the output voltage options are direct taps off the cells, these voltages are being derived from dc/dc regulators (hence generation of hear can be a problem) and that may present compromises in terms of noise and output impedence. Given the stated outputs tend to be firm voltages at handy levels (5, 9, 12 etc) that looks more like regulated supply than direct cell taps which have less tidy voltages which of course vary with charge state.

I bring this up because I am about to go down the MScaler path and plan to run it from battery into my shiny new Dave. I believe direct connection to a battery (lithium chemistry or SLA, yet to finalise) in the voltage range 9-15v would offer both very low impedance and low self-noise, generate less heat, be less complex and cheaper. Plan is to buy two, have one on charge, on in use.

Am I wrong? Missing something?

 

[griff500]

Are these batteries capable of large fast current loads to retain dynamics and transients?