[jlbrach]

differences in DAC's are all rather subtle IMHO, you tend to appreciate a better DAC over periods of time listening to familiar music and having those oh wow moments when you find yourself hearing things you never heard before....give it time

 

[bikutoru]

Guys, can you please help. I just bought a second-hand Mscaler and TT2 at the same time - to replace my RME ADI-2 DAC. My source is an Innuos Zen Mk3 with red-book CDs ripped to FLAC files (I also use TIDAL HiFi streaming). My headphones are Hifiman Arya, Audeze LCD-X and Sony MDR Z1R. The Zen feeds into the USB socket on the Mscaler. I am using dual BNC cables between Mscaler and TT2.

After having read all the great reviews of the MScaler and TT2, I am disappointed to find that the sound quality improvement seems relatively small. My wife can't tell any difference from the RME DAC! Myself, I think the MScaler/TT2 combination is a bit more realistic, with better timbre and less "digital", but the difference seems much more subtle than I was expecting.

Is this normal? Is it possible I have not got things set up correctly? The Mscaler and TT2 seem to be working as normal - all the usual coloured lights on etc. Maybe I was expecting too much?

I have heard/seen a Youtube video where an MScaler is switched in and out and you can hear the improvement made by the Mscaler even over a Youtube video!

Any advice/comments would be welcome!

May be you bought into the hype, may be not. I'd suggest, listen to your TT2 for a week or two, I don't even think you need Mscaler at this point, then switch back to RME. If it is still the same, you are lucky, you do not need this crazy expensive Chord gear! Sell it and be happy.

When I bought a Mojo, it was kinda the same, it sounded very good but not night and day from my old DAC, but over the first month I knew, it is very special. While my old DAC sounded good, the Mojo gave me emotional connection to music that really was missing. After 6 month I bought 2Qute(still here), my first two days with it where - what the hell?!?, it didn't sound any good and then somehow it just bloomed overnight and sounded amazing, I have no idea how it was possible. There are lots of good DACs, is Chord gear for you? Only you and a little time can tell. I think, Chord DACS cannot be a/b tested with any other DACs, again my opinion.
If somehow TT2 gets to you, then connect Mscaler and see if it makes any difference.
I have the same TT2+HMS(TT2 for 2 years, HMS for year and a half), for me HMS makes, for the most parts, very subtle difference with TT2, also depends on the type of music and quality of recording. When I had it connected to my 2Qute for few weeks, going though the upscaling button made very significant differences, but TT2 is already very good and these differences are very subtle.
It is my opinion, but I have no idea how could any other equipment sound any better. For DAVE crazies, yes, I have heard DAVE.

 

[N Quarter]

Sounds right, 705 KHZ means you are getting the max upscale from a CD quality file (44.1). Are you using the stock supplied cables? I am using the stock cables for now, with clip on ferrites...but I am about to pull the trigger on a set of Wave cables. Maybe your old DAC is better than you thought, but to me, the recording quality means more than anything.

 

[Crazeenick]

I have replaced the stock BNC cables with Chord Shawline BNC cables. I think that the improvement the MScaler adds to the TT2 is more subtle than I expected (after hearing all the hype), but as time goes on I think am appreciating it more. And yes - it does depend very much on the quality of the recording I am listening to!

I think I just need to give it more time.....

 

[RKClem]

Hi, Has anyone tried to feed the MScaler with a miniDSP SHD Studio? I Would like to for room correction but not sure how the MSclaler would react to the DSP going on in the MiniDSP. Any advise appreciated.

 

[Jon L]

differences in DAC's are all rather subtle IMHO, you tend to appreciate a better DAC over periods of time listening to familiar music and having those oh wow moments when you find yourself hearing things you never heard before....give it time

This is true. OP will also likely hear more differences when using good speakers over 'phones.
When friends ask for advice, I also tell them to invest much more money toward transducers (speakers, headphones) because differences there are much larger than DAC's.

 

[ecwl]

Hi, Has anyone tried to feed the MScaler with a miniDSP SHD Studio? I Would like to for room correction but not sure how the MSclaler would react to the DSP going on in the MiniDSP. Any advise appreciated.

I have not but I have tried an older miniDSP EQ product, the nanoDigi 2x8B. I have also used parametric EQ on JRiver and Roon and currently use a convolution filter in Roon. First of all, I found all parametric EQ/convolution filters do cause a very subtle loss in transparency but I have to admit that it is so subtle that you’re not going to notice it in general mostly because most of us have significant bass issues that requires EQ so the improvement by getting a more even bass response would vastly outweigh the subtle loss in transparency.
Sadly, the same is not true for miniDSP products because in addition to doing the EQ/convolution filter, it’ll always automatically convert all your music to 96kHz first with ASRC. The problem with this conversion is that you’re always going to lose timing/transient accuracy. And to me, that is very audible so depending how much EQ you need, often, it’s better not to EQ than to introduce the ASRC conversion to 96kHz. But your mileage may vary.
I think the advantage of miniDSP SHD Studio is that it comes with Dirac which is an automated top-of-the-line convolution filter system, rather than a manual system where you have to create your own convolution filter or EQ settings. However, having created my own convolution filter using Acourate, I can also tell you that what computationally looks best is not always what sounds best so I personally, like the author of Acourate, believe that it is impossible to completely automate the phase response correction without manual human trial and error which is a function Dirac does not have.

 

[Mandea]

@Crazeenick: for redbook files, yes it's 705khz. for hi-res files it's 768khz.

 

[RKClem]

Sadly, the same is not true for miniDSP products because in addition to doing the EQ/convolution filter, it’ll always automatically convert all your music to 96kHz first with ASRC. The problem with this conversion is that you’re always going to lose timing/transient accuracy. And to me, that is very audible so depending how much EQ you need, often, it’s better not to EQ than to introduce the ASRC conversion to 96kHz. But your mileage may vary.

Thanks for your detailed reply. That's a disappointing result. This loss of timing/transient accuracy caused by the ASRC conversion will presumable affect all DACs not just the MScaler. Just to clarify, if your source is only 44.1 /16 will there still be a loss of accuracy in your opinion or were you only talking about hi res music? Cheers

 

[ecwl]

Thanks for your detailed reply. That's a disappointing result. This loss of timing/transient accuracy caused by the ASRC conversion will presumable affect all DACs not just the MScaler. Just to clarify, if your source is only 44.1 /16 will there still be a loss of accuracy in your opinion or were you only talking about hi res music? Cheers

I don’t have a lot of high-res music. I did this mostly for 44.1kHz music and 48kHz movie audio.
One thing I forgot to mention to is that I don’t think the miniDSP nanoDIGI did any dithering with their ASRC’d 24/96 signal. I suspect Dirac/SHD Studio definitely would? I’m sure the sonic quality was also influenced by that.
But like I said, everything comes down to how badly do you need EQ/convolution filter/room correction? Yes, the ASRC would also affect other DACs but their timing/transient accuracy is not as high so you’ll probably hear the loss of transient accuracy significantly less. (If you start of with inaccurate transients, can you really hear it when it gets re-aligned?)
My gut feeling for most people in most rooms is that there is a 50% chance that Dirac would improve your system with M-Scaler + DAVE and 50% chance that it would make it worse or it’s a wash. If you’re using other DACs, my guess would be that there is a 70-80% chance that Dirac/miniDSP would improve your system. This is also based on my experience at my favorite audio dealer (also Chord dealer) because he also has a lot of equipment that use Dirac and Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect and since he is elderly, I frequently assist him in computer audio related issues. Although Dirac and RoomPerfect are so easy to setup, he usually does it himself and he asks me to listen to the results with him.

 

[karmapolice]

I recently began using the mscaler with the TT2 dual bnc and feed it via blue jean optical cable to my oppo transport. The input on my mscaler is set to pink automatic mode.

what I dont get is I dont seem to be able to get it to input to dual bnc only mode. to optimize dbnc I can set to pink auto mode only. not sure what I am overlooking?

 

[MatW]

I recently began using the mscaler with the TT2 dual bnc and feed it via blue jean optical cable to my oppo transport. The input on my mscaler is set to pink automatic mode.

what I dont get is I dont seem to be able to get it to input to dual bnc only mode. to optimize dbnc I can set to pink auto mode only. not sure what I am overlooking?

The dual bnc is the output, right? Not the input, that is the optical cable.

 

[karmapolice]

The dual bnc is the output, right? Not the input, that is the optical cable.

the tt2 is set to dbnc

the input on the chord mscaler is a bit confusing as I understand the instructions since why is there a pink auto mode and a dbnc mode .....I guess I am safe on the pink mode although technically if using the tt2 it should be in blue mode (as my optical cable is in the digital 2 input of the mscaler)

I am also confused about the hms output sample rate chart (4.5) in the mscaler manutal as it shows max upscaling from the Oppo 105 is 192 yet the readout on the TT2 shows 768 in pink mode and 705 in blue mode.

does this mean I can only use usb input on the mscaler to get to 705 or 768?

 

[MatW]

the tt2 is set to dbnc

the input on the chord mscaler is a bit confusing as I understand the instructions since why is there a pink auto mode and a dbnc mode .....I guess I am safe on the pink mode although technically if using the tt2 it should be in blue mode (as my optical cable is in the digital 2 input of the mscaler)

I am also confused about the hms output sample rate chart (4.5) in the manutal as it shows max upscaling from the Oppo 105 is 192 yet the readout on the TT2 shows 705.

does this mean I can only use usb input on the mscaler to get to 705 or 768?

As to your first question, there are both dnbc input and dnbc output connections on the m scaler, I guess that is the source of confusion. You can use pink mode, or indeed blue if you're using optical 2.

I use usb input myself, cannot really help you with the second question, but I'm sure someone else can.

 

[Ragnar-BY]

After having read all the great reviews of the MScaler and TT2, I am disappointed to find that the sound quality improvement seems relatively small.

Give it some time. Listen for a fee weeks, get used to this combo and try RME again. Difference isn’t small.

And it might be time to think about better headphones. Yours are not “bad”, but MTT2 could easily show you why flagships are flagships.