Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Jun 19, 2020 at 12:47 PM Post #11,432 of 18,345
I was informed that if I press the hifi button on the remote it will control the blu2 and if I press the AV button it will control the dave....

I don't own a Blu2, so I can't answer your main question, but I was surprised that you ever used AV to control DAVE because I've only ever used HIFI for DAVE's standby and all other functions like volume. But I've just tried now and have discovered that...

I can activate/deactivate DAVE standby with either HIFI or AV.
But once DAVE is active, only HIFI will control any of DAVE's other functions - AV has no effect, but it can put DAVE back into standby.

If the above is universal, I don't see how you ever got your remote to work in the way it originally did - unless there is a particular sequence that triggered a little known setting.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 1:20 PM Post #11,433 of 18,345
prior to the past 2 days if I pressed the Hifi button it allowed me to control the blu2 and put it into standby and if I pressed the AV button it allowed me to use the remote to control the dave...I actually have a separate remote for the dave so up until now the only time I used the remote I speak of was when I wanted to put the blu2 into standby.....as it stands now the blu2 works properly but I cannot figure out how to get it back into standby mode..all I want to do is put the blu2 back into standby so I do not have to see the NO DISK displayed
 
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Jun 19, 2020 at 3:37 PM Post #11,434 of 18,345
OK guys...firstly, and especially for those considering upgrades to their headphones, I feel compelled to redress the balance concerning Meze Empyreans, in line with the majority experience.

I fully appreciate everyone is entitled to their own opinions/findings, but I personally am always wary of statements about any piece of equipment that differ widely from the majority view. And of course the usual advice applies re. doing one's own in-depth research to try and get a more balanced/accurate insight before spending one's hard earned cash! Even better is to hopefully have a long demo in one's own system before committing.

Secondly - and certainly related to said headphones also - my final experiments with DIY cables have proved even more interesting in a way than all the previous ones, given the circumstances. So, cable doubters please just turn away now lol :wink:...(but the final paragraphs are pertinent IMHO!).

Having progressed over the years from good quality OFC copper, thru silver-plated copper and pure (soft annealed) solid silver to mono crystal OCC copper and lastly silver (again solid), my own results have confirmed others' statements re. the superiority of this OCC wire in all audio applications - hp cable; ICs, digital coax. As reported recently, I found the same actually applies both to the mains power supply to an LPS as well as its DC out. And the benefit is definitely compounded by twinning the cables - separate ones for signal/return, and pos/neg - and with extra shielding. At each stage, it's as though yet another window has opened to the sound, with greater detail; improved 3D soundstage/positioning; better tonal range/harmonics; more impressive bass and treble; better transient response, clarity and precision etc.

Anyway, as a final trial I was encouraged to use the same dualing method and materials for all my other power cords - from Regenerator to Balanced Mains Conditioner, thence to my NaimUnitiCore server/media player. Given I was already using Neotech's superb 'Hybrid' UP-OCC copper and silver-plated copper mains cable, with hefty braid shielding, I wasn't expecting much this time. However, once again my eyes (or, ears!) were opened...not quite as much as with the LPSs' cables, but noticeable nonetheless...yet another of those windows opening!

And so, in short, my own extensive experiments have shown that really good cables can and do bring appreciable improvements to performance...the caveat being that one really does need to have as 'clean' an electricity supply as humanly possible to begin with!! In my own case, I'm sure the ASF 3000 Balanced Mains/Advanced Filter System is not only doing far more than 'just' mitigating RF and EM interference (surge/overload/thermal protection etc etc), but also helping eliminate ground loops and therefore thwarting any possible 2.5gHz 'issue' (of which I suffer no detrimental effects whatsoever, even without any ferrites anywhere).

And back to my first subject, paying such attention to one's system - certainly in my own - can undoubtedly help bring out the Empyreans' true potential....'muffled' being far from the case! The opposite in fact : crystal clarity, with exceptionally balanced coverage across the entire FR and a superb soundstage....and smooth, in the best sense of the word. Admittedly, they do sound a tad 'soft' with stock cable, but only a real issue in an already very warm system. Upgrading to a cable using OCC silver especially brings a transformation IMHO...(ask the guy at Norne Audio). And the same holds true for the HD800...its occasionally experienced treble 'issue' remedied for most folks either via said cable upgrade or good software equalisation even.

Lastly, for any keen DIYers out there, a couple of photos re. my (very!) last cable construction :
..................................................1................................................................. ........................................................2............................................................

P1020269.JPGP1020270.JPG
1....24AWG Neotech UP-OCC teflon coated solid silver wire, through further narrow teflon tubing, then individual foil shield from cannibalised cat 7 Ethernet cable.
2....Then through even more, larger teflon tubing (5mm internal, 6mm external diam); sturdy off-the-peg braid sheathing, and lastly further interference-suppressing expandable sheath.

With the increased isolation from using separate pos/neg cables, along with 3 layers of teflon insulation, and the foil plus robust metal shielding, the results even surpass Neotech's impressive mains Hybrid OCC cable mentioned earlier...ie :

P1020271.JPG

ps. Even though the single 24AWG I used per polarity is a fraction of the size of such as this, it has 300V at 5.4A spec'n (ie. 1620VA!), which of course is far more than required in a headphone setup...and most else lol! And the whole cost is far less than any comparable cable :relaxed:...CHEERS!
 
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Jun 19, 2020 at 11:30 PM Post #11,435 of 18,345
I want to touch on this very caustic subject; re; rfi. I think this being blown way out of proportion here, to the effect of blaming Chord for failure. Wow, so much enthusiasm here.

Chord has introduced a product that has more accurate reproduction of the original signal to date. Somehow this has made them a target for unsubstantiated claims. Noise. Chord DACs deliver signal below -300db noise. Did you hear that? Really, think it over. No other mfg can come close, factors of 10x, 100x or more.

When you hear someone complaining about noise, somehow it's diverged into audible noise. This is so far from the truth. There is No audible noise from a Chord DAC. In the case of the MScaler, it has been said, and truthfully if you understand the noise floor actual, it can add noise. It is far below audible noise. Way, Far below audible. And is fixed easily, understanding the noise architechture (is that a word?).

Let's understand what noise floor below audible means. There are very low level harmonics in every sound. In nature or recorded sounds. This is not audible per se, but your brain is a most complex computer that can process this low level of sound for the purpose of imaging to know where a sound comes from. It also gives you the perception of realism.

These Chord DACs are so far below the audible noise floor we have a very new phenomenom. Any ambient signals can be picked up in the chain. Your cell phone, hair drier, etc. Anything from across the room, or even on the same power line, such as an air conditioner or garage opener. It essentially masks the super low signals at the bottom of the noise floor. So you don't hear noise, you simply don't hear the space in between the music. Your brain simply doesn't percieve those ultra low signals needed to calculate space because they are masked in a very low noise floor, way below perceived audible.

So now we are trying to achieve new levels of not only sound, but perception. When you hear someone achieved better sound by means of cables or rf filtering, it is in this extreme level of perception that we are exploring. We would not be able to get this far without the -300 db real noise floor of Chord DACs.

Chord is not a fault, but an enabler of more precision, exploration. A new wonderful level I enjoy exploring each day.

My own attempts of rf filtering has achieved something I could not attain without this level of DAC performance that Chord has provided with their -300 db internal DAC noise.
 
Jun 20, 2020 at 1:17 AM Post #11,436 of 18,345
Something to note about those interested in HQPlayer. And yes as an MScaler owner I am always interested in what else is out there. One thing to note is that certain streamer/players/end points have compatibility issues getting 768khz data into Chord DACs via USB. 705khz data seems less problematic. So if you are upscaling via Roon and or HQ Player or whatever and streaming that through your streamer to the DAC via USB it may work most of the time but may occasionally drop to white noise in one channel. Turns out It is an incompatibility with the Linux USB drivers of a few streamers Including the xRendus. It happens with HQPlayer and Roon but is not just that combination of software as it also happens with C-3PO and LMS server (LMS the free server streamer system similar to Roon, C-3PO is like the free SOX version of HQPlayer but for LMS)

So depending on your streamer you might have to add another box like the Audiowise SRC.DX USB to Dual coax adapter to get it working glitch free like the MScaler. This news dampened my enthusiasm for wanting to play with HQPlayer. Thought others might like to know.
 
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Jun 20, 2020 at 3:36 AM Post #11,437 of 18,345
Something to note about those interested in HQPlayer. And yes as an MScaler owner I am always interested in what else is out there. One thing to note is that certain streamer/players/end points have compatibility issues getting 768khz data into Chord DACs via USB. 705khz data seems less problematic. So if you are upscaling via Roon and or HQ Player or whatever and streaming that through your streamer to the DAC it may work most of the time but may occasionally drop to white noise in one channel. Turns out It is an incompatibility with the Linux drivers of a few streamers Includ8ng the xRendus. It happens with HQPlayer and Roon but is not just that combination of software as it also happens with C-3PO and LMS server (LMS the free server streamer system similar to Roon, C-3PO is like the free SOX version of HQPlayer but for LMS)

So depending on your streamer you might have to add another box like the Audiowise SRC.DX USB to Dual coax adapter to get it working glitch free like the MScaler. And then probably a quality power supply for that box as well. This news turned me off wanting to play with HQPlayer. Thought others might like to know.
I've heard the white noise issue at 768kHz on my Raspberry Pi 3B+ (it's fine at 705kHz) but the Raspberry Pi 4 is perfect even at 768kHz.
 
Jun 20, 2020 at 4:57 AM Post #11,438 of 18,345
Something to note about those interested in HQPlayer. And yes as an MScaler owner I am always interested in what else is out there. One thing to note is that certain streamer/players/end points have compatibility issues getting 768khz data into Chord DACs via USB. 705khz data seems less problematic. So if you are upscaling via Roon and or HQ Player or whatever and streaming that through your streamer to the DAC it may work most of the time but may occasionally drop to white noise in one channel. Turns out It is an incompatibility with the Linux drivers of a few streamers Includ8ng the xRendus. It happens with HQPlayer and Roon but is not just that combination of software as it also happens with C-3PO and LMS server (LMS the free server streamer system similar to Roon, C-3PO is like the free SOX version of HQPlayer but for LMS)

So depending on your streamer you might have to add another box like the Audiowise SRC.DX USB to Dual coax adapter to get it working glitch free like the MScaler. And then probably a quality power supply for that box as well. This news turned me off wanting to play with HQPlayer. Thought others might like to know.

Audiowise SRC-DX uses 5V from the USB port. No power supply is required.
 
Jun 20, 2020 at 6:00 AM Post #11,439 of 18,345
I want to touch on this very caustic subject; re; rfi. I think this being blown way out of proportion here, to the effect of blaming Chord for failure. Wow, so much enthusiasm here.

Chord has introduced a product that has more accurate reproduction of the original signal to date. Somehow this has made them a target for unsubstantiated claims. Noise. Chord DACs deliver signal below -300db noise. Did you hear that? Really, think it over. No other mfg can come close, factors of 10x, 100x or more.

When you hear someone complaining about noise, somehow it's diverged into audible noise. This is so far from the truth. There is No audible noise from a Chord DAC. In the case of the MScaler, it has been said, and truthfully if you understand the noise floor actual, it can add noise. It is far below audible noise. Way, Far below audible. And is fixed easily, understanding the noise architechture (is that a word?).

Let's understand what noise floor below audible means. There are very low level harmonics in every sound. In nature or recorded sounds. This is not audible per se, but your brain is a most complex computer that can process this low level of sound for the purpose of imaging to know where a sound comes from. It also gives you the perception of realism.

These Chord DACs are so far below the audible noise floor we have a very new phenomenom. Any ambient signals can be picked up in the chain. Your cell phone, hair drier, etc. Anything from across the room, or even on the same power line, such as an air conditioner or garage opener. It essentially masks the super low signals at the bottom of the noise floor. So you don't hear noise, you simply don't hear the space in between the music. Your brain simply doesn't percieve those ultra low signals needed to calculate space because they are masked in a very low noise floor, way below perceived audible.

So now we are trying to achieve new levels of not only sound, but perception. When you hear someone achieved better sound by means of cables or rf filtering, it is in this extreme level of perception that we are exploring. We would not be able to get this far without the -300 db real noise floor of Chord DACs.

Chord is not a fault, but an enabler of more precision, exploration. A new wonderful level I enjoy exploring each day.

My own attempts of rf filtering has achieved something I could not attain without this level of DAC performance that Chord has provided with their -300 db internal DAC noise.

Every single dac I have come across (and from all manufacturers) is susceptible to intermodulation distortion in their analogue stages caused by rf noise. This is not a Chord phenomenon.
 
Jun 20, 2020 at 6:28 AM Post #11,440 of 18,345
I want to touch on this very caustic subject; re; rfi. I think this being blown way out of proportion here, to the effect of blaming Chord for failure. Wow, so much enthusiasm here.

Chord has introduced a product that has more accurate reproduction of the original signal to date. Somehow this has made them a target for unsubstantiated claims. Noise. Chord DACs deliver signal below -300db noise. Did you hear that? Really, think it over. No other mfg can come close, factors of 10x, 100x or more.

When you hear someone complaining about noise, somehow it's diverged into audible noise. This is so far from the truth. There is No audible noise from a Chord DAC. In the case of the MScaler, it has been said, and truthfully if you understand the noise floor actual, it can add noise. It is far below audible noise. Way, Far below audible. And is fixed easily, understanding the noise architechture (is that a word?).

Let's understand what noise floor below audible means. There are very low level harmonics in every sound. In nature or recorded sounds. This is not audible per se, but your brain is a most complex computer that can process this low level of sound for the purpose of imaging to know where a sound comes from. It also gives you the perception of realism.

These Chord DACs are so far below the audible noise floor we have a very new phenomenom. Any ambient signals can be picked up in the chain. Your cell phone, hair drier, etc. Anything from across the room, or even on the same power line, such as an air conditioner or garage opener. It essentially masks the super low signals at the bottom of the noise floor. So you don't hear noise, you simply don't hear the space in between the music. Your brain simply doesn't percieve those ultra low signals needed to calculate space because they are masked in a very low noise floor, way below perceived audible.

So now we are trying to achieve new levels of not only sound, but perception. When you hear someone achieved better sound by means of cables or rf filtering, it is in this extreme level of perception that we are exploring. We would not be able to get this far without the -300 db real noise floor of Chord DACs.

Chord is not a fault, but an enabler of more precision, exploration. A new wonderful level I enjoy exploring each day.

My own attempts of rf filtering has achieved something I could not attain without this level of DAC performance that Chord has provided with their -300 db internal DAC noise.

Yes indeed drew...the performance of Chord's DAC/(amps) is something very special without doubt, and certainly not afflicted by any undue 'noise' as such. This isn't in fact what has been the admittedly rather overstated IMHO 'issue' for some time now with m-scaler...it's the 2.5gHz signal generated within that Rob Watts himself refers and admits to, and which for some folks appears to be something they should look into more closely (although I personally didn't have the slightest hint of anything untoward in my TT2/HMS sound delivery even from the off).

But, like yourself I suspect, I fear a good many folks must be looking in and wondering whether this is something that just might be off-putting to a degree that isn't really justified? Especially as even if this phenomenon is at work in one's system, in all probability most folks would never have the faintest clue it's there lol!! :wink: And so the advice can only be to give it (them) a try, and be prepared to be amazed regardless of any possibly 'worrying' comments...(which one can always find about any piece of equipment of course, regardless of price!).
 
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Jun 21, 2020 at 2:07 PM Post #11,442 of 18,345
Hello all,

I've had the TT2 powering a set of Abyss 1266 Phi TC headphones for a while now. And while it's always been a tad on the bright side for me, it was something I've been really happy with so far. I decided to upgrade to the M scalar and I've put probably 50-100 hours or so of listening in. I'm finding that the Mscalar has made the brightness of the TT2+Abyss almost to the point of it being unlistenable for certain songs and longer periods of time. There are certain songs where high treble symbols sound incredibly thin and almost piercing at medium/high volumes. Some voices like on Nirvana Unplugged, the voice takes on an almost chipmunk like nasal ring on certain parts of the track(I'm explaining this badly). I've tried a few basic things like swapping sources, power outlets, etc just to see if there was something basic that might be able to help out.

Just wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar?

My sources have been a win10 laptop, a Raspberry pi running Ropieee(roon), and a windows10 desktop machine. I'm using an Oyaide NEO D+ USB Class A cable.


I just wanted to give an update on this. Really appreciative of all the replies and PM's I've received on this issue. I've learned a ton about RF noise and all sorts of things I didn't know about before. There is a ton of dedication you all bring here and it really is appreciated.

On some recommendations, I decided to try the Storm Reference BNC cables from Wave High Fidelity. Shout out to Wave High Fidelity, the cables showed up within a few days here in Canada. Really impressive shipping speed lol.

I've managed to spend a few hours now doing some back to back comparisons and listening to a few key songs.

I'm happy to say that the cables do very much as the reviews say. They remove a lot of the harshness that I was having a problem with. Even to the point where I can crank the volume up to unhealthy levels and not receive any fatigue from brightness at all.

However

I can't help but feel the energy and punch is missing from the music. A couple of examples:

Ball and Biscuit by The White Stripes
Change (remaster) by Blind Melon
Echoes and Shadows by Kristina Bolstad

I have done some back to back comparisons of the Mscalar+StormCable+TT2 and just TT2 and each time I find myself wanting to stay with just the TT2. There is texture and energy to the music that is much more apparent with just the tt2. I want to do a wider song selection and continue to do some comparisons over the coming days, but this has been my findings so far.
 
Jun 21, 2020 at 2:40 PM Post #11,443 of 18,345
I just wanted to give an update on this. Really appreciative of all the replies and PM's I've received on this issue. I've learned a ton about RF noise and all sorts of things I didn't know about before. There is a ton of dedication you all bring here and it really is appreciated.

On some recommendations, I decided to try the Storm Reference BNC cables from Wave High Fidelity. Shout out to Wave High Fidelity, the cables showed up within a few days here in Canada. Really impressive shipping speed lol.

I've managed to spend a few hours now doing some back to back comparisons and listening to a few key songs.

I'm happy to say that the cables do very much as the reviews say. They remove a lot of the harshness that I was having a problem with. Even to the point where I can crank the volume up to unhealthy levels and not receive any fatigue from brightness at all.

However

I can't help but feel the energy and punch is missing from the music. A couple of examples:

Ball and Biscuit by The White Stripes
Change (remaster) by Blind Melon
Echoes and Shadows by Kristina Bolstad

I have done some back to back comparisons of the Mscalar+StormCable+TT2 and just TT2 and each time I find myself wanting to stay with just the TT2. There is texture and energy to the music that is much more apparent with just the tt2. I want to do a wider song selection and continue to do some comparisons over the coming days, but this has been my findings so far.
Put the money towards a DAVE. Doesn‘t matter how much overpriced wire you stick between your M Scaler and a TT2 you will never, you can never, make it sound as good as an M Scaler and DAVE.
 
Jun 21, 2020 at 3:08 PM Post #11,444 of 18,345
I just wanted to give an update on this. Really appreciative of all the replies and PM's I've received on this issue. I've learned a ton about RF noise and all sorts of things I didn't know about before. There is a ton of dedication you all bring here and it really is appreciated.

On some recommendations, I decided to try the Storm Reference BNC cables from Wave High Fidelity. Shout out to Wave High Fidelity, the cables showed up within a few days here in Canada. Really impressive shipping speed lol.

I've managed to spend a few hours now doing some back to back comparisons and listening to a few key songs.

I'm happy to say that the cables do very much as the reviews say. They remove a lot of the harshness that I was having a problem with. Even to the point where I can crank the volume up to unhealthy levels and not receive any fatigue from brightness at all.

However

I can't help but feel the energy and punch is missing from the music. A couple of examples:

Ball and Biscuit by The White Stripes
Change (remaster) by Blind Melon
Echoes and Shadows by Kristina Bolstad

I have done some back to back comparisons of the Mscalar+StormCable+TT2 and just TT2 and each time I find myself wanting to stay with just the TT2. There is texture and energy to the music that is much more apparent with just the tt2. I want to do a wider song selection and continue to do some comparisons over the coming days, but this has been my findings so far.

Ah, to be honest Cyntax, this is precisely why ferrite beads on cables aren't loved by everyone in the field of hi-fi...for the very reasons you mention lol! I personally avoid them at all costs unless absolutely necessary, and fortunately I never have had cause to resort to them. As usual, different folks have different results according to their systems/ears, and this is certainly an area where a demo is essential IMHO, with the option of return. Perhaps things might settle to a more acceptable level with further burn in...good luck!
 
Jun 21, 2020 at 4:43 PM Post #11,445 of 18,345
So I decided to give the Poweradd a shot. I’m running it at 16v based on what I’ve read in previous posts. When I first hooked up and compared to stock power supply, there was a subtle difference. Definitely not as big of difference as switching to Danacable on my Utopia. But then after listening more, music is little more dynamic and a organic sounding. I guess can say more liquid sounding and engaging.

Amazon had $10 off coupon, so not a bad investment for under $100 and can also use as battery backup charger for all other electronics.
 

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