[Drewligarchy]

Maybe less streamer noise in your system is having a positive impact, it could be possible.

I’m with you on the brain playing tricks business though. I have come to realise in recent months that my brain is not to be trusted, even when I go into something genuinely expecting no improvement. Differences that I heard sighted are just not there when repeating tests unsighted.

In my setup, M Scaler and TT2 can be plugged into any outlet, using any input source and I can never tell the difference.

It’s reassuring and much cheaper! I have no add-ons, tweaks or fancy cables in my system anymore and it sounds fantastic.

I understand that people who have just dropped £1000 on cables or reclockers wouldn’t want to do an unsighted test, as if they can’t hear the difference they aren’t going to feel great, but if you can bring yourself to do it, it’s surprising how much more time you get back to focus on music, rather than researching the next tweak.

Having said that, if people hear improvements and are enjoying that experience, then ultimately they are enjoying the sound and that is the main thing.

Trust me I wish I didn't hear (or feel) any difference.

When I initially put M-Scaler in my system it was definitely brighter. Easiest to hear on hip-hop tracks via sibilance (I like the Hamilton soundtrack, and any track on that album was pretty bad). I can tolerate sibilance, but I got a headache or my ears hurt in less than half an hour from the overall sound - stock.

I am trying the Wave Cables now. They reduced the sibilance immensely, and made the tone darker (but not dark). I also moved a router (an orbi hot spot), and switched to optical in vs USB. While it sounded ALOT better, I would still get the fatigue described - it's unmistakable. Switching to Dave alone, either USB or Optical - I had no fatigue (though I noticed that sound was still a hair darker than with M-Scaler in the chain with the mentioned tweaks.) Note - this is with my Abyss Phi TC from XI Audio Formula S. I din't experience the fatigue with my Stax 009 (which I might expect) nor LCD 4. As @ray-dude mentions, everyone's RFI world is completely different. Not only that transducers are different. On some cans/speakers I'd imagine the changes are more noticable than others. Then their are the sensitivities of different ears. Not at all saying I have "Golden Ears", just that I am sensitive to RFI, distortion, and slight brightness.

Last night was the first night I was able to listen for hours with minimal to no fatigue. I attribute this to giving my ears a couple days of rest since I had listened extensively to the M Scaler stock. I am going to listen for the rest of the weekend, and if I continue to be fatigue free - I'll keep the Wave Cables and the M-Scaler. If not, I will sell the M-Scaler. Clearly, many are able to listen to it without fatigue - so if that's the case - I think I won't have too much trouble flipping it. It's brand new, bought from an authorized dealer, and only 2 weeks old. If I keep M-Scaler, I may try Opto-DX as well. Nothing sounds better to my ears than optical with chord dacs - galvanic isolation or not - and for the additional $750 - $1000 - it's worth it to try and eek out some extra performance from my system. But that's me: I've invested a lot in my system, so the percentage vs. the overall system is significantly less than others.

I never heard a Blu MK2, but I am convinced the M Scaler can absolutely have self generated RFI problems. I am prone to placebo like anyone else - but this is not that. It's just too obvious a difference.

The M Scaler technology is amazing. What it can do to RBCD and hi-res, is nothing short of astounding. It's literally like putting on 3D glasses for your ears (but not some cheesy 3D effect. The imaging and focus is spooky and breathes new life into many albums.) It's not a minor upgrade, I would describe it as trans-formative.

BUT, I definitely believe there are RFI issues in certain situations which I assume were mitigated somewhat between M Scaler and Blu - but they are still there in certain situations. More sensitive than other DACs to my ears. Rob Watts is a genius and a complete gentleman. John Franks means well, but I take issue in some of the posts where he criticizes some of the aftermarket options (and the people that make them). Sure they are not cheap, but they do help - and Chord could have avoided it by doing more testing and optimization and/or creating their own optical interface. I have a Dave, Hugo 2, and an M Scaler. I've had multiple Chord 2qutes and a Hugo 1. Chord DACs are the only ones I currently use. I've been through an Auralic Vega, Schiit Yggdrasil (both versions), a Bricasti M1 SE - but have decided I like the chord sound the best.

Clearly, I have spent a lot on Chord gear. I am loyal because I like the sound. But it feels somewhat condescending to those of us (which I would say is a significant amount), which derive benefits from these solutions.

Chord can't possibly test every RFI situation, but I feel like they should have been able to measure RFI at the DACs inputs in a variety of scenarios and realized that it needed more optimization (heck, Dan did it). Where they really dropped the ball I believe, is by not initially pursuing a proprietary high-bandwidth optical solution. Bel Canto does this. This, I believe, would have not required the optimizations both by Chord and by others.

I think Opto DX is a brilliant idea, and that's why I am also intrigued by it - but I imagine it will take some optimization to work as well as a native optical interface - but works much better than stock right out of the box. I have direct experience with Nick's cables and they DEFINITELY help. Both guys are complete gentleman. I know Nick's solution helps cause I tried it, and I've seen the measurements for Dan's solution and I'm pretty sure it will help as well as a result.

 

[audio_1]

If I keep M-Scaler, I may try Opto-DX as well.

The Opto-Dx was a great upgrade in my system, compared to the Blu2 being connected direct to the Dave with Oyaide DB-510 digital cables with Wurth clip on ferrites. It also allowed me to separate the Dave from the Blu2 and digital source components by a few metres.

 

[kelly200269]

As you mentioned, the mScaler takes 16/44.1 files and makes them outstanding. For me it’s a huge benefit to be able to
Listen to pretty much anything (quality of recording aside) with the mScaler and have it sound phenomenal.

As for your question, I think any 24 (24/44.1 or 24/96) bit file benefits even more from the mScaler, probably because there is more data for the mScaler to work with. But yes, it sounds outrageously good and is a noticeable step up in quality of 16 bit files.

I don’t listen to a lot of 192khz stuff and I kind of feel there is a law of diminishing returns at either 96khz or 192khz with the mScaler. However, I also don’t listen to a lot of classical music which is probably the biggest beneficiary of being 192khz.

Cheers for this!
I was talking to the dealer I bought my TT2 from, and they said with the HMS + TT2, it was a sort-of ‘law of diminishing returns’ when feeding HMS + TT2 High-Res material.

 

[Chester Rockwell]

Trust me I wish I didn't hear (or feel) any difference.

When I initially put M-Scaler in my system it was definitely brighter. Easiest to hear on hip-hop tracks via sibilance (I like the Hamilton soundtrack, and any track on that album was pretty bad). I can tolerate sibilance, but I got a headache or my ears hurt in less than half an hour from the overall sound - stock.

I am trying the Wave Cables now. They reduced the sibilance immensely, and made the tone darker (but not dark). I also moved a router (an orbi hot spot), and switched to optical in vs USB. While it sounded ALOT better, I would still get the fatigue described - it's unmistakable. Switching to Dave alone, either USB or Optical - I had no fatigue (though I noticed that sound was still a hair darker than with M-Scaler in the chain with the mentioned tweaks.) Note - this is with my Abyss Phi TC from XI Audio Formula S. I din't experience the fatigue with my Stax 009 (which I might expect) nor LCD 4. As @ray-dude mentions, everyone's RFI world is completely different. Not only that transducers are different. On some cans/speakers I'd imagine the changes are more noticable than others. Then their are the sensitivities of different ears. Not at all saying I have "Golden Ears", just that I am sensitive to RFI, distortion, and slight brightness.

Last night was the first night I was able to listen for hours with minimal to no fatigue. I attribute this to giving my ears a couple days of rest since I had listened extensively to the M Scaler stock. I am going to listen for the rest of the weekend, and if I continue to be fatigue free - I'll keep the Wave Cables and the M-Scaler. If not, I will sell the M-Scaler. Clearly, many are able to listen to it without fatigue - so if that's the case - I think I won't have too much trouble flipping it. It's brand new, bought from an authorized dealer, and only 2 weeks old. If I keep M-Scaler, I may try Opto-DX as well. Nothing sounds better to my ears than optical with chord dacs - galvanic isolation or not - and for the additional $750 - $1000 - it's worth it to try and eek out some extra performance from my system. But that's me: I've invested a lot in my system, so the percentage vs. the overall system is significantly less than others.

I never heard a Blu MK2, but I am convinced the M Scaler can absolutely have self generated RFI problems. I am prone to placebo like anyone else - but this is not that. It's just too obvious a difference.

The M Scaler technology is amazing. What it can do to RBCD and hi-res, is nothing short of astounding. It's literally like putting on 3D glasses for your ears (but not some cheesy 3D effect. The imaging and focus is spooky and breathes new life into many albums.) It's not a minor upgrade, I would describe it as trans-formative.

BUT, I definitely believe there are RFI issues in certain situations which I assume were mitigated somewhat between M Scaler and Blu - but they are still there in certain situations. More sensitive than other DACs to my ears. Rob Watts is a genius and a complete gentleman. John Franks means well, but I take issue in some of the posts where he criticizes some of the aftermarket options (and the people that make them). Sure they are not cheap, but they do help - and Chord could have avoided it by doing more testing and optimization and/or creating their own optical interface. I have a Dave, Hugo 2, and an M Scaler. I've had multiple Chord 2qutes and a Hugo 1. Chord DACs are the only ones I currently use. I've been through an Auralic Vega, Schiit Yggdrasil (both versions), a Bricasti M1 SE - but have decided I like the chord sound the best.

Clearly, I have spent a lot on Chord gear. I am loyal because I like the sound. But it feels somewhat condescending to those of us (which I would say is a significant amount), which derive benefits from these solutions.

Chord can't possibly test every RFI situation, but I feel like they should have been able to measure RFI at the DACs inputs in a variety of scenarios and realized that it needed more optimization (heck, Dan did it). Where they really dropped the ball I believe, is by not initially pursuing a proprietary high-bandwidth optical solution. Bel Canto does this. This, I believe, would have not required the optimizations both by Chord and by others.

I think Opto DX is a brilliant idea, and that's why I am also intrigued by it - but I imagine it will take some optimization to work as well as a native optical interface - but works much better than stock right out of the box. I have direct experience with Nick's cables and they DEFINITELY help. Both guys are complete gentleman. I know Nick's solution helps cause I tried it, and I've seen the measurements for Dan's solution and I'm pretty sure it will help as well as a result.

I can only speak for my setup in my environment obviously but there is nothing special about it, so do think people should try non sighted tests if they want to know what’s really going on.

I can appreciate your position as I had a very similar experience when I first got an M Scaler. I was getting fatigued very very quickly. I tried everything to try and resolve it. One thing I could never reconcile though was the fact that why would a very well engineered bit of equipment cause such listening fatigue when my pair of relatively cheap wireless headphones did not. They were certainly not better sounding or better designed.

I even saw a specialist about my ear as I thought something must be drastically wrong somewhere.

Anyway, it turned out that my Aeon Closed headphone pad had got crushed down a little on a trip just before I purchased the m scaler and it meant that one side was applying pressure to my ear. A chance 5 minutes pulling the pad back into shape resolved the issue completely. I had worked myself up into such a tizz though that I was adamant it was rfi coming from the M scaler.

I also have some Wave cables and they are fine cables. I just don’t use them anymore as they are not required in my system. I bet if I tried them in my system now though, sighted I would think it sounded better, even though I know from previous tests I cannot tell any difference when I don’t know which cables are being used. The brain is a powerful thing.

 

[JaZZ]

Trust me I wish I didn't hear (or feel) any difference.

When I initially put M-Scaler in my system it was definitely brighter. Easiest to hear on hip-hop tracks via sibilance (I like the Hamilton soundtrack, and any track on that album was pretty bad). I can tolerate sibilance, but I got a headache or my ears hurt in less than half an hour from the overall sound - stock.

I am trying the Wave Cables now. They reduced the sibilance immensely, and made the tone darker (but not dark). I also moved a router (an orbi hot spot), and switched to optical in vs USB. While it sounded better, I would still get the fatigue described - it's unmistakable. Switching to Dave alone, either USB or Optical - I had no fatigue (though I noticed that sound was still a hair darker than with M-Scaler in the chain with the mentioned tweaks. Note - this is with my Abyss Phi TC from XI Audio Formula S. I din't experience the fatigue with my Stax 009 (which I might expect) nor LCD 4. As @ray-dude mentions, everyone's RFI world is completely different. Not only that transducers are different. On some cans/speakers I'd imagine the changes are more noticable than others. Then their are the sensitivities of different ears. Not at all saying I have "Golden Ears", just that I am sensitive to RFI, distortion, and slight brightness.

Last night was the first night I was able to listen for hours with minimal to no fatigue. I attribute this to giving my ears a couple days of rest since I had listened extensively to the M Scaler stock. I am going to listen for the rest of the weekend, and if I continue to be fatigue free - I'll keep the Wave Cables and the M-Scaler. If not, I will sell the M-Scaler. Clearly, many are able to listen to it without fatigue - so if that's the case - I think I won't have too much trouble flipping it. It's brand new, bought from an authorized dealer, and only 2 weeks old. If I keep M-Scaler, I may try Opto-DX as well. Nothing sounds better to my ears than optical with chord dacs - galvanic isolation or not - and for the additional $750 - $1000 - it's worth it to try and eek out some extra performance from my system. But that's me: I've invested a lot in my system, so the percentage vs. the overall system is significantly less than others.

I never heard a Blu MK2, but I am convinced the M Scaler can absolutely have self generated RFI problems. I am prone to placebo like anyone else - but this is not that. It's just too obvious a difference.

The M Scaler technology is amazing. What it can do to RBCD and hi-res, is nothing short of astounding. It's literally like putting on 3D glasses for your ears (but not some cheesy 3D effect. The imaging and focus is spooky. BUT, I definitely believe there are RFI issues in certain situations which I assume were mitigated somewhat between M Scaler and Blu - but they are still there in certain situations. More sensitive than other DACs to my ears.

Chord can't possibly test every RFI situation, but I feel like they should have been able to measure RFI at the DACs inputs in a variety of scenarios and realized that it needed more optimization. Where they really dropped the ball I believe, is by not initially pursuing a proprietary high-bandwidth optical solution. Bel Canto does this. This, I believe, would have not required the optimizations both by Chord and by others.

I think Opto DX is a brilliant idea, and that's why I am also intrigued by it - but I imagine it will take some optimization to work as well as a native optical interface - but works much better than stock right out of the box. I have direct experience with Nick's cables and they DEFINITELY help. Both guys are complete gentleman. I know Nick's solution helps cause I tried it, and I've seen the measurements for Dan's solution and I'm pretty sure it will help as well as a result.

Everything you say sounds plausible to me. I also found/find the sound with the M Scaler brighter and sharper than with the DAVE alone. But the huge improvement it brought with grip, impulsivity and threedimensionality more than made up for it. It certainly helps that I equalize my headphones individually, so it was an easy (although laborious) task to adapt the curves to the new sonic characteristic.

That brings me to your specific problem zone: Apparently the sound with M Scaler is still fine with SRM-009 and LCD-4. Just the Abyss suffers from excessive brightness. Now in my understanding it's nothing but logical that some existing configurations will benefit from a change of tonal balance and some will be handicapped. Also, in my experience there's a clear correlation between the accuracy of the source and its abilty to reveal tonal flaws in the chain. Now if I look at the measurements for the Abyss (unfortunately only the ones for the first model are available), it looks as if it's rather treble-emphasized, also the figures for harmonic distortion and the behavior in the time domain (high-frequency sustain) look rather critical. I haven't heard (nor measured) it myself, so this is just a theoretical speculation. In any event the best thing you could do to make the Abyss benefit to the same degree as your other headphones is to slightly reduce the treble. No headphone is perfect by itself, the less so with the M Scaler in the chain. I would never part with my M Scaler, and certainly not because it's too revealing and accurate.

BTW, I'm also considering Dan's OptoDX system.

 

[Drewligarchy]

Everything you say sounds plausible to me. I also found/find the sound with the M Scaler brighter and sharper than with the DAVE alone. But the huge improvement it brought with grip, impulsivity and threedimensionality more than made up for it. It certainly helps that I equalize my headphones individually, so it was an easy (although laborious) task to adapt the curves to the new sonic characteristic.

That brings me to your specific problem zone: Apparently the sound with M Scaler is still fine with SRM-009 and LCD-4. Just the Abyss suffers from excessive brightness. Now in my understanding it's nothing but logical that some existing configurations will benefit from a change of tonal balance and some will be handicapped. Also, in my experience there's a clear correlation between the accuracy of the source and its abilty to reveal tonal flaws in the chain. Now if I look at the measurements for the Abyss (unfortunately only the ones for the first model are available), it looks as if it's rather treble-emphasized, also the figures for harmonic distortion and the behavior in the time domain (high-frequency sustain) look rather critical. I haven't heard (nor measured) it myself, so this is just a theoretical speculation. In any event the best thing you could do to make the Abyss benefit to the same degree as your other headphones is to slightly reduce the treble. No headphone is perfect by itself, the less so with the M Scaler in the chain. I would never part with my M Scaler, and certainly not because it's too revealing and accurate.

BTW, I'm also considering Dan's OptoDX system.

Happy to try tone controls - though as mentioned it's better at the moment and synergized perfectly with Dave alone.

Do you eq in the digital or analog domain (e.g. a schiit sys).

My concern in equalizing in the digital domain is it would reduce the effectiveness of mscaler/Dave's digital processing - but that's from what I've read and potentially audiophile nervosa. Do you find any reduction in the positive qualities of the mscaler with applying eq in your audio app of choice?

If the Abyss wasn't the headphone I use 90% of the time, I'd keep mscaler regardless. Key is making it work with that - because I enjoy it so much. @jlbrach and @simorag have similar setups to mine and haven't reported issues. @simorag uses the JPS Superconductor cable (I believer) and he is using opto-dx, so not sure if that's the difference.

@jlbrach and @simorag - what has been your experience with Dave / M Scaler / Abyss TC through Formula S and fatigue with the various incarnations of your setup?

 

[Ragnar-BY]

it means FLAC fully recovers back the lossless pcm stream. The subtle sound difference if at all can be due to extra real time processingt involved in the transport from FLAC to lossless pcm.

Sure, it should be something on transport side that causes this difference. I know that you can convert .flac to .wav back and forth and this would result in 100% same bits.

 

[JaZZ]

Do you eq in the digital or analog domain (e.g. a schiit sys).

In the digital domain – xnor graphic equalizer (⅓-octave) for foobar2000. I would never use an analogue equalizer (again) after some sobering experience in the past. Analogue components in the signal path ruin the sound – more or less.

My concern in equalizing in the digital domain is it would reduce the effectiveness of mscaler/Dave's digital processing - but that's from what I've read and potentially audiophile nervosa. Do you find any reduction in the positive qualities of the mscaler with applying eq in your audio app of choice?

There's no reason to be concerned. The recording is as it is, be it 44.1 kHz or higher, and has been processed digitally in the studio before. The M Scaler doesn't care the least bit if you apply some more processing or renounce it, it just makes the best of the existing signal. It's as if you would have losslessly equalized it in the analogue domain (if that would be possible) and reconverted to digital again, which would result in a comparable signal as if it's equalized in the digital domain directly. The result speaks for itself: The M Scaler offers even higher resolution and refinement with an adequately equalized over-all amplitude response, which also results in an improved transient response. So I highly recommend to solve your «problem» this way, if it persists.

 

[simorag]

If the Abyss wasn't the headphone I use 90% of the time, I'd keep mscaler regardless. Key is making it work with that - because I enjoy it so much. @jlbrach and @simorag have similar setups to mine and haven't reported issues. @simorag uses the JPS Superconductor cable (I believer) and he is using opto-dx, so not sure if that's the difference.

@jlbrach and @simorag - what has been your experience with Dave / M Scaler / Abyss TC through Formula S and fatigue with the various incarnations of your setup?

The purchase of the M Scaler has been one of my best moves ever during the build of my hifi system.
I immediately noticed an ease-ness of musical flow, smoothness and a general reduction of brightness, which brought me to a more relaxing approach to listening. The opposite of listening fatigue, actually, in my setup.

Since then, I have made several improvements (BNC cables, OPTO DX, battery-powered HMS), but the main value of all those was in making the HMS being more effective in doing even better what it was already doing very fine.

The JPS Superconductor was indeed another step into making the AB-1266 better, as it adds some nice warmth / body in the midrange making vocals and strings sounding more palpable and natural.

Today, I am in my 4th hour of consecutive listening while I type this, and I just want to keep the musical bliss going on more and more

 

[mt-hifidelity]

I just received the M Scaler and have been using it with my Hugo 2. I'm picking up many of the same attributes others have mentioned, both good and not so good, including the additional brightness and some sibilance. I'm using a new silver Moon Audio BNC-to-dual-coax cable built especially for the M Scaler to pair with the Hugo 2. Does anyone have any suggestions for other cable options that may help? Perhaps I should use a good pair of BNC cables and an adapter. I can't afford a DAVE at the moment so I'm sticking with the Hugo.

 

[Progisus]

I just received the M Scaler and have been using it with my Hugo 2. I'm picking up many of the same attributes others have mentioned, both good and not so good, including the additional brightness and some sibilance. I'm using a new silver Moon Audio BNC-to-dual-coax cable built especially for the M Scaler to pair with the Hugo 2. Does anyone have any suggestions for other cable options that may help? Perhaps I should use a good pair of BNC cables and an adapter. I can't afford a DAVE at the moment so I'm sticking with the Hugo.

That’s a well made and shielded cable. How long is it? What is your input source? Probably the best advice and sorry if it sounds flippant, is to stop reading this thread, close your eyes and allow your brain to adjust.

 

[feddar]

Has anyone compared using the HMS to using Phono?

 

[adyc]

The Opto-Dx was a great upgrade in my system, compared to the Blu2 being connected direct to the Dave with Oyaide DB-510 digital cables with Wurth clip on ferrites. It also allowed me to separate the Dave from the Blu2 and digital source components by a few metres.

I second that. OptoDX is a great product. It is much better than ferrite BNC cables. OptoDX definitely reduces the hardness I experience from HMS-Dave. Before one accuses me that it is my system problem and not from HMS-Dave. I also have another DAC and turntable. I don’t experience any hardness from these sources.

However, having OptoDX is one part of solution. I agree with Dan that HMS radiates a lot of RFI and affecting Dave. I purchase 5m optical cable from Dan to move HMS away from Dave. The sound is even better. I strongly recommend you try OptoDX with long optical cable.

 

[naynay]

This threads gone RFI crazy never had any issues with my Dave and M Scaler can listen for hours.

 

[bikutoru]

This threads gone RFI crazy never had any issues with my Dave and M Scaler can listen for hours.

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" - Voltaire

Expensive cable and other esoteric solutions to cure it is like putting gold plated cup holders in a brand new Rolls Royce and claiming now it can even fly, but if it does, who am I to disprove it? Attack everyone who cannot or doesn't want to afford it, cupholders in cars exist! and therefore changing them makes cars so much better.

When RFI craze subsides it will switch to LPS craze, from there to optical network and so on. When do they have time to listen to music instead of cables, I wander?