[seaice]

No, you never miss any part... The whole sound is just delayed.

 

[musickid]

got it. thanks seaice, zappa, mixx. funny thing i've never noticed it the delay.

these 1950's verve jazz recordings are what the mscaler was made for. pre dolby. that's where the magic lies imho. it wakes them up from cryogenic. instrument definition is spot on.

 

[Rob Watts]

I haven't used the video mode yet, but according to Rob's explanation as to the differences in signal processing the HMS upsamples to 768 kHz in video mode as well, but uses a simpler WTA filter for reduced delay – thus clearly less than 1 million taps, I would think. Rob's above quote looks strange, since 0.71 s to 0.64 s is barely a difference worth of sacrificing optimal sound quality. Probably it should mean «...and for video it's using 0.65 s of music/sound, resulting in a delay of 0.325 s».

So how come with 1M taps and just audio we do not hear a delay? What is the mechanism at work here?

Before I got my HMS when I listened to DSD I switched my Dave to DSD mode instead of PCM mode. Now I'm going through HMS first. I believe HMS always outputs PCM anyway, so there's no sense in switching Dave's mode right? How does the processing of DSD differ when going through M Scaler to Dave's PCM vs Dave's DSD mode? Is it purely better to go through HMS vs Dave's DSD mode? Maybe a question for @Rob Watts ?

@mlxx answered this correctly, but I thought I would comment further.

0.71S is the delay with 44.1k, and the delay for 48k is 0.65S, and this is simply because the sample period is faster for 48k - 20.8 uS against 22.7 uS for 44.1k. The actual number of data samples used by the WTA filter is the same.

For the video mode setting, the WTA filter is asymmetric, and here the delay is 0.104S - this is the max I can get away with without significant lip sync issues but maximising SQ. In this case the number of samples used is less for the "future" part of the sinc function - the "past" part is unaffected, but it's only the future part that creates the group delay. Indeed, the filter sees the future by delaying everything, that's why there is a delay overall.

You can easily see the effect of the delay using video; for audio, you can just make it out when you pause a track, as the music still plays after you press pause. But 0.7S is not a lot of delay to hear.

 

[Amberlamps]

@mlxx answered this correctly, but I thought I would comment further.

0.71S is the delay with 44.1k, and the delay for 48k is 0.65S, and this is simply because the sample period is faster for 48k - 20.8 uS against 22.7 uS for 44.1k. The actual number of data samples used by the WTA filter is the same.

For the video mode setting, the WTA filter is asymmetric, and here the delay is 0.104S - this is the max I can get away with without significant lip sync issues but maximising SQ. In this case the number of samples used is less for the "future" part of the sinc function - the "past" part is unaffected, but it's only the future part that creates the group delay. Indeed, the filter sees the future by delaying everything, that's why there is a delay overall.

You can easily see the effect of the delay using video; for audio, you can just make it out when you pause a track, as the music still plays after you press pause. But 0.7S is not a lot of delay to hear.

Rob, on amazon.com it says Hugo 2 is capable of outputting 717.6khz.

https://www.amazon.com/Chord-Transp...ie=UTF8&qid=1545021861&sr=1-4&keywords=Hugo+2

What would use that sample rate ? I’ve seen 705 and 768 and all the other usual suspects, but I’ve never seen 717.6khz.

 

[Rob Watts]

Its a typo, should be 705.6 and 768 kHz.

 

[ubs28]

How does the delay of the M Scalar work with videos? Will it be out of sync? (just read something about the delay just now so no idea how it works)

 

[Amberlamps]

Its a typo, should be 705.6 and 768 kHz.

I will accept that answer, but only if you can tell me the name of the machine that is capable of creating nuclear fusion and containing it safely.

 

[simorag]

Before I got my HMS when I listened to DSD I switched my Dave to DSD mode instead of PCM mode. Now I'm going through HMS first. I believe HMS always outputs PCM anyway, so there's no sense in switching Dave's mode right? How does the processing of DSD differ when going through M Scaler to Dave's PCM vs Dave's DSD mode? Is it purely better to go through HMS vs Dave's DSD mode? Maybe a question for @Rob Watts ?

You are right: with the HMS the DAVE should be left in PCM mode for all input formats. I find this very handy, by the way, compared to the manual PCM+/DSD+ switch +20s delay on the DAVE.

Below are some previous quotes from Rob Watts himself:

The M scaler uses the new DSD filter that first appeared in Hugo 2. This actually sounds better than the DSD+ filter in Dave.

I would just add the new DSD filter, (which is very much more effective at removing the out of band distortion and noise and has aliasing well below -250dB) sounds warmer with enhanced sense of flow than the Dave DSD+ filter.

About 10-15% of my collection is DSD (mostly DSD128, some DSD64 and few DSD256) and I find that the M Scaler improves DSD as well compared to DAVE alone in DSD+ mode. Same type of improvements I am hearing with PCM: smoother, slightly darker and more relaxed / natural, more vocals tactility, improved depth etc..​

 

[musickid]

Thankyou Rob. mk

I'm really starting to settle into the hms way of listening. the relaxed presentation and the natural flow and tempo which are a direct mirror of reality. the presentation of female vocals also stands out with the rise and decay of the voice.

 

[Christer]

Hello ,I know I have asked this question before, but I can't find the post where it was answered.
But I would be very grateful if someone could again tell me what requirements and figures I need to look for with a powerbank for an M Scaler.
I know Rob recommends the Pilot Pro 2 but unfortunately it seems impossible to find where I am and will be for some months.
And while travelling I don't order things online.
Any other recommendations for a high quality battery powered power supply for M Scaler that is more readily available in shops would be much appreciated.
I got a linear battery powered power unit for Qutest today and I am running some tests in a more quiet environment than a shop.
My hotel room with the AC off.
It does indeed seem to have a noticeably lower noise level than the PSU supplied with Qutest.
I will do some further tests under almost completely quiet conditions,when back in the Highlands again.
Even in a hotel room with AC off,in a city it never gets as quiet as I am used to back home.
I have been partly suspecting that most of the noise I have had with Qutest,has actually been on some of my tracks. But no, with the battery psu everything calms down more with less noise and hiss.

It seems HI FI News were not wrong in their test.

I don't know if there is a similar issue at all with M Scaler.
Or if only some Qutest psu's are a bit noisy and others not?
The supplied one is small and handy.
The one I bought is a square box basically as big as Qutest,but surprisingly lightweight.
The one supplied with M scaler is also quite small.
But it would be very nice to be able to run everything in my chain,on battery even the M Scaler.
And my experiences today again, with battery power into Qutest makes me a bit curious.

Today the only thing I have had to plug in was the M Scaler.
Laptop on battery, Qutest on battery and headphone amp on battery. But the M Scaler not.
Cheer Controversial Christer

 

[Triode User]

Hello ,I know I have asked this question before, but I can't find the post where it was answered.
But I would be very grateful if someone could again tell me what requirements and figures I need to look for with a powerbank for an M Scaler.
I know Rob recommends the Pilot Pro 2 but unfortunately it seems impossible to find where I am and will be for some months.
And while travelling I don't order things online.
Any other recommendations for a high quality battery powered power supply for M Scaler that is more readily available in shops would be much appreciated.
I got a linear battery powered power unit for Qutest today and I am running some tests in a more quiet environment than a shop.
My hotel room with the AC off.
It does indeed seem to have a noticeably lower noise level than the PSU supplied with Qutest.
I will do some further tests under almost completely quiet conditions,when back in the Highlands again.
Even in a hotel room with AC off,in a city it never gets as quiet as I am used to back home.
I have been partly suspecting that most of the noise I have had with Qutest,has actually been on some of my tracks. But no, with the battery psu everything calms down more with less noise and hiss.

It seems HI FI News were not wrong in their test.

I don't know if there is a similar issue at all with M Scaler.
Or if only some Qutest psu's are a bit noisy and others not?
The supplied one is small and handy.
The one I bought is a square box basically as big as Qutest,but surprisingly lightweight.
The one supplied with M scaler is also quite small.
But it would be very nice to be able to run everything in my chain,on battery even the M Scaler.
And my experiences today again, with battery power into Qutest makes me a bit curious.

Today the only thing I have had to plug in was the M Scaler.
Laptop on battery, Qutest on battery and headphone amp on battery. But the M Scaler not.
Cheer Controversial Christer

Hi Christer,

It is interesting to hear of your experiments. However, as I understand it any talk of 'noise' in the context of power supplies is not really to do with hiss or other audible background noise with the Qutest or other Chord DACs and is instead more to do with RF noise which causes intermodulation distortion in the analogue stage of the DAC and which in turn can lead to a slight brightness or other RF noise artifacts such as false sense of detail etc.

I am therefore surprised that you can hear a lower background noise level with a battery or different power supply. Rather than try to identify a quieter background noise level I would suggest you focus on slight levels of top end harshness as a gauge as to which power source is better ie with lower RF noise. I also find that with lower RF noise the bass can sound tighter and this might be something to do with the leading edge of the notes being more accurate with lesser levels of RF noise.

 

[penguin69]

Has anyone not had to use the video button while watching TV? I would love the full million taps without the lip sync issues

For those who like to listen to music via Youtube, there is a way to get your full 1M taps and avoid lip sync issues ... but it's a bit of a pain to set up.

1) Plug a Chromecast into your TV (or use a TV with one built in)
2) Install VLC on your computer/laptop
3) Install the latest youtube.lua script for VLC (fiddly and not for the faint-hearted)
4) play your desired Youtube URL in VLC by pasting the URL into the Network URL text field (Open Source --> Network)
5) Start the video ('Play' button, obviously...)
6) Slow the video down using the Audio Delay key (letter 'F' on my Mac), around 13 presses should do it
7) Cast the output to your TV using Playback --> Renderer option, selecting the name of your target Chromecast device

One issue I need to resolve is how to guarantee high quality video and audio transfer from VLC to the TV. Not sure what I am getting now, as I have only just got the above to work. (I wasted lots of time trying other bits of kit but nothing could give me a suitably long video delay...)

 

[Amberlamps]

For those who like to listen to music via Youtube, there is a way to get your full 1M taps and avoid lip sync issues ... but it's a bit of a pain to set up.

1) Plug a Chromecast into your TV (or use a TV with one built in)
2) Install VLC on your computer/laptop
3) Install the latest youtube.lua script for VLC (fiddly and not for the faint-hearted)
4) play your desired Youtube URL in VLC by pasting the URL into the Network URL text field (Open Source --> Network)
5) Start the video ('Play' button, obviously...)
6) Slow the video down using the Audio Delay key (letter 'F' on my Mac), around 13 presses should do it
7) Cast the output to your TV using Playback --> Renderer option, selecting the name of your target Chromecast device

One issue I need to resolve is how to guarantee high quality video and audio transfer from VLC to the TV. Not sure what I am getting now, as I have only just got the above to work. (I wasted lots of time trying other bits of kit but nothing could give me a suitably long video delay...)

Or, keep the mscaler in music mode and use the sync controls on your tv to do it instead.

However I do agree that your guide will come in handy for people who don’t have a smart tv, or when watching via a monitor.

 

[Amberlamps]

@Rob Watts

I will accept that answer, but only if you can tell me the name of the machine that is capable of creating nuclear fusion and containing it safely.

Tokamak Rob, Tokamak.

I had high hopes for you as an electronic engineer Rob. ***shakes head***

Who doesn’t know about tokamaks and thermonuclear fusion these days ?

Even Ladybird has a book about how to build your own tokamak, using nothing more than a microwave oven and, 500 grams of plutonium and 4 neodymium magnets.

That book is for children aged 5-8 years old.

 

[musickid]

Hopefully they will find a way to make them work properly. Sooner rather than later. My electric bills are a PITA. Humanity deserves a decent discount off the electric.