[Whazzzup]

+10XCubed.

Got the hint again 10Xcubed. going to miss the chord comradery lol.

 

[simorag]

Now this gets back to my fundamental question, which rob answered in my first question of mscaler thread. If one has a reference server what does m scaler add to the table?

I believe that you can find the answer to your question by digging in the Blu Mk2 thread here on head-fi, if you are patient enough

I know it is daunting since it is a very long thread and since there are a lot of not-so-exciting digressions within it, but the advantage for you is that you would find several actual users feedback there.​

The Blu2 is where the M Scaler technology has been first introduced about 1.5 years ago, and several lucky guys are using the Blu2 to upsample the stream coming from a high-end server (Innuos ZENith MkII SE, Aurender N10 or W20 to name a few, or spaghetti-like Sotm stacks) to their DAVE.

In the Blu2 thread you will find many people commenting about the specific improvements that they have found by adding the Blu2 1-million taps upscaling capabilities to the DAVE (thus bypassing its internal 164ktaps upscaler).

There seem to be consensus among Blu2 users that the sound quality increase produced by the Blu2 to the DAVE is more substantial ("transformative" to quote some of them) than what they have got by upgrading their server or other upstream components.

Of course the M-Scaler is "only" an upscaling device (a very special one indeed), so in principle if a high-end server already had a better hardware and/or software implementation of upscaling - or one which suits best the connected DAC - adding the M-Scaler would be superfluous or even detrimental (?).

There has been some debate both here and on CA and to a lesser extent on WBF forums about what's best between a high CPU power server like the SGM2015 or Antipodes CX+EX doing DSD512 or PCM705/768 upscaling via HQ Player then feeding a non-Chord DAC, and a Blu2DAVE system fed by clean bit-perfect input, but to my knowledge nobody who has done a serious long-term audition of both configurations has offered first-hand impressions so far.

Disclaimer: as a DAVE owner, I am sold on the M-Scaler and have a (black ) one on order!

 

[Triode User]

Again, the trouble with internet forums is that one mans gentle ribbing is another mans polemic criticism.

@Whazzzup I would suggest staying and engaging in the debate, ask questions, prod away, I hope I will always be polite in my responses but we all learn by talking about stuff.

 

[STR-1]

@Rob Watts - Hi Rob. I wonder if you would be so kind as to educate me a little on handshakes over USB.

Must of us with a Blu2 (or just a DAVE) well understand that this needs 5v power on the input usb for handshake purposes, but I had hoped that this could be switched off once the handshake had taken place. The SOtM tX-USBultra regenerator I have between my Innuos Zenith SE server and my Blu2 allows the vbus to be switched off on each of its two USB outputs. I just tried switching off the vbus on the output I was using to connect to the Blu2 and lost all sound. Why am I bothering to try this? Well, because I was pleased to discover yesterday that when switching off the vbus on the small USPCB I have temporarily connecting the Zenith server to the tX-U I got an immediate and significant improvement in sound quality with noise levels dropping and everything becoming cleaner and more punchy.

Can you explain a little how this handshake business works on your dacs and why my attempt to continue playing after switching off the vbus failed? I'm posting on the Mscaler thread as I will be trading in my Blu2 for an Mscaler (and some other stuff) once that comes out. Thanks.

 

[HeeBroG]

@Rob Watts - Hi Rob. I wonder if you would be so kind as to educate me a little on handshakes over USB.

Must of us with a Blu2 (or just a DAVE) well understand that this needs 5v power on the input usb for handshake purposes, but I had hoped that this could be switched off once the handshake had taken place. The SOtM tX-USBultra regenerator I have between my Innuos Zenith SE server and my Blu2 allows the vbus to be switched off on each of its two USB outputs. I just tried switching off the vbus on the output I was using to connect to the Blu2 and lost all sound. Why am I bothering to try this? Well, because I was pleased to discover yesterday that when switching off the vbus on the small USPCB I have temporarily connecting the Zenith server to the tX-U I got an immediate and significant improvement in sound quality with noise levels dropping and everything becoming cleaner and more punchy.

Can you explain a little how this handshake business works on your dacs and why my attempt to continue playing after switching off the vbus failed? I'm posting on the Mscaler thread as I will be trading in my Blu2 for an Mscaler (and some other stuff) once that comes out. Thanks.

Very strange. I turn off the bus on my tX-U and my Blu2 continues playing music fine with a standard USB cable.
It however doesn't work with an unpowered USB cable.
As for improvement in sound quality I am not convinced but I turn it off as I guess it couldn't be worse.

 

[Rob Watts]

@Rob Watts - Hi Rob. I wonder if you would be so kind as to educate me a little on handshakes over USB.

Must of us with a Blu2 (or just a DAVE) well understand that this needs 5v power on the input usb for handshake purposes, but I had hoped that this could be switched off once the handshake had taken place. The SOtM tX-USBultra regenerator I have between my Innuos Zenith SE server and my Blu2 allows the vbus to be switched off on each of its two USB outputs. I just tried switching off the vbus on the output I was using to connect to the Blu2 and lost all sound. Why am I bothering to try this? Well, because I was pleased to discover yesterday that when switching off the vbus on the small USPCB I have temporarily connecting the Zenith server to the tX-U I got an immediate and significant improvement in sound quality with noise levels dropping and everything becoming cleaner and more punchy.

Can you explain a little how this handshake business works on your dacs and why my attempt to continue playing after switching off the vbus failed? I'm posting on the Mscaler thread as I will be trading in my Blu2 for an Mscaler (and some other stuff) once that comes out. Thanks.

The Blu2 uses the VBUS only as a logic level flag - and it's RF filtered too. So removing it will ensure that Blu2 will not use the USB as a valid input. I can see no logical way that it can possibly change the SQ.

Very strange. I turn off the bus on my tX-U and my Blu2 continues playing music fine with a standard USB cable.
It however doesn't work with an unpowered USB cable.
As for improvement in sound quality I am not convinced but I turn it off as I guess it couldn't be worse.

I guess it's leakage current making the flag float high. It's a high impedance input.

 

[HeeBroG]

The Blu2 uses the VBUS only as a logic level flag - and it's RF filtered too. So removing it will ensure that Blu2 will not use the USB as a valid input. I can see no logical way that it can possibly change the SQ.



I guess it's leakage current making the flag float high. It's a high impedance input.

That can't be a good thing in my setup then I guess.
Any tips on getting rid of the leakage current?

Cheers,

Geoff

 

[STR-1]

The Blu2 uses the VBUS only as a logic level flag - and it's RF filtered too. So removing it will ensure that Blu2 will not use the USB as a valid input. I can see no logical way that it can possibly change the SQ.

Thanks, Rob. I’ll leave that one then.

 

[hieukm]

I completely don't understand where you are coming from I'm afraid.

The server is just the source of the digital signal. Its job is to supply the digital signal to the DAC or MScaler in an uncorrupted form and without added noise.
How can a server (to quote you) "produce both amplitude, width, and breadth of the sound stage, this in fact with accuracy and true separation polyphonically with correct timing and timber, will reproduce a live in it 3d feel without surround"? If the server influences the final sound in this way and is adding those qualities then I am more inclined to think it is adding RF noise and which produces RF artifacts that are mistaken for all those things.

Rob can certainly give a better explanation than me but what the MScaler does is to take the redbook digital signal and turn that into an analogue signal which is as close as possible to the original recorded analogue sound.

That is what the MScaler adds to the table. The reference server you talk about can only hope to supply an unpolluted digital signal, it cannot bring anything more to the table than that.

You guys never cease to amaze me.

 

[hieukm]

I completely don't understand where you are coming from I'm afraid.

The server is just the source of the digital signal. Its job is to supply the digital signal to the DAC or MScaler in an uncorrupted form and without added noise.
How can a server (to quote you) "produce both amplitude, width, and breadth of the sound stage, this in fact with accuracy and true separation polyphonically with correct timing and timber, will reproduce a live in it 3d feel without surround"? If the server influences the final sound in this way and is adding those qualities then I am more inclined to think it is adding RF noise and which produces RF artifacts that are mistaken for all those things.

Rob can certainly give a better explanation than me but what the MScaler does is to take the redbook digital signal and turn that into an analogue signal which is as close as possible to the original recorded analogue sound.

That is what the MScaler adds to the table. The reference server you talk about can only hope to supply an unpolluted digital signal, it cannot bring anything more to the table than that.

 

[BlueFan]

I’m keeping my Blu2 as well, it’s still a better chassis and power supply than M scaler, IMO.

 

[burbster]

I’m keeping my Blu2 as well, it’s still a better chassis and power supply than M scaler, IMO.

Presumably in different rooms!?

The power supply comment is interesting, I couldn't help but feel a sense of satisfaction plugging in a good quality means lead directly into the Blu 2 when I home demoed it. (Sad I know!!) Despite Rob Watt's apparent certainty that the quality of PSU and cable to his products makes no difference to the sound of those products, I do feel I will have this niggling doubt that my M Scaler supply (when it arrives) may be polluting other nearby products in my system. That said will I care enough to stump up for an after market linear supply? Doubtful.

 

[dawktah2]

I'd like to sign up to do some "double blind" cable testing.

 

[STR-1]

I’m currently running in a new Sablon Reserva Elite USB cable that I’ve got on loan for a few days. I’ll probably leave until tomorrow before I have a proper listen but already the signs are that it will improve on both the 20cm Curious and 70cm Lush cables that I have as options for connecting my tX-USBultra to my Blu2.

I will refrain from saying these cables are technically better than a standard fully compliant cable, which I am assuming the cable that came with my DAVE is an example of, because I have neither the technical knowledge nor the means to measure to be able to back this up. I also do not have the ideal setup Rob Watts promotes for best sound quality of battery-driven laptop, simple fully compliant USB cable and DAVE (with or without Blu2). I will just say that I can hear a very clear difference between these cables in my system and that for me they sound better (in different ways) than the USB cable that came with my DAVE.

I am also a fan of improving the quality of power supplies whenever possible (and affordable). I’ve been lucky enough to take over a cancelled order for a Paul Hynes SR7 and once I’ve finalised the spec with Paul I should receive early in the New Year. I didn’t take up this order with the Mscaler in mind, which I shall be trading my Blu 2 in for (and for a Hugo TT2), but you can bet I will be trying the SR7 with it when I can. I’m sure the smps Rob has found to partner the Mscaler is very good (the pairing certainly sounded very good at CanJam) and I might find that the SR7 cannot do anything more for the Mscaler, but I’ve just got to hear for myself. In fact, I’ve already got a Paul Hynes SR4 that should power the Mscaler just fine at 12v, so I can try that as soon as I get tne Mscaler. Most of us are audiophiles after all and many will have accumulated over the years a selection of cables and even power supplies, and we are going to try them. It’s just the nature of the beast.

 

[ZappaMan]

He just like to talk about his server (ya know, the one that was hand delivered by god) whenever he gets a chance.

I think it’s nasty to talk about another member like that. Absolutely no respect.