[JaZZ]

He's said at least a couple of times in this and other threads that the DAC being fed by the MScaler still makes a big difference as to the end results SQ.

...but possibly not with the Hugo₂ family (Hugo₂, Hugo TT₂, Qutest) in mind and not explicitly in the context of external (speaker) amps.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

I have a hugo2 outputting line level to an amplifier. For that use, the TT2's only benefit is more taps since I believe the WTA second/third stage and noise shaper is the same in Hugo2 and TT 2. And yes for me when the MScaler is added, the differences vanish.

Thanks, that's good to hear. Since I have the Hugo2, but couldn't afford both a TT2 AND an M-Scaler.

 

[apmusson]

I've been playing with bits and pieces of power related equipment that I have at home to see how they change the sound from my mscaler / Hugo 2 combo.

Firstly, I have been switching between my ultrarendu / lps1.2 USB input and my Google Chromecast optical input (using lps1.2 power supply and an Ethernet connection). The impact of switching between optical and USB is quite noticable and not what I expected - the Chromecast allows the mscaler to shine with less top end , more solidity to bass and a relaxed fuller sound which is closer to reality. My music server is Roon which supports both ultrarendu and chromecast network endpoints.

This and comments on this forum got me thinking about the effect of RFI (which the Optical connection removes from the input to mscaler). I tried to isolate the mscaler from mains RFI using a mains power isolator but it wasn't very effective (it is a cheap uninterruptible mains power supply) - the impact was hardly noticable. What was very noticable however was when I ran the mscaler from a Tacima Power Conditioner multiplug I own (£35 from Amazon) which I believe has decent RFI filtering. Another good improvement in bass and solidity - I sometimes avoid the Tacima as it can seem to dull analogue electronics but as the mscaler is all digital..... a good cheap improvement and a no brainer upgrade unless you are confident that your mains is RFI free.

Based on these experiences I have ordered some wave stream bnc cables from Nick for a trial and to see if that improves my Ultrarendu USB input by removing any residual or parasitic RFI before it hits the Hugo 2.

I loved my mscaler and the music magic it creates right from the get go - these tweaks are just the icing on a mighty fine cake.

 

[GreenBow]

Thanks, that's good to hear. Since I have the Hugo2, but couldn't afford both a TT2 AND an M-Scaler.

The TT 2 has supercaps too, which the Hugo 2 does not.

 

[apmusson]

The TT 2 has supercaps too, which the Hugo 2 does not.

The Hugo 2 is a very nice match with the mscaler. The TT2 has some benefits for mains use and a lot of extra power but the Hugo 2 / mscaler combo is absolutely fine if it can drive your headphones. I listened to the TT2 / mscaler combo at the weekend but am going to stick with my H2 & mscaler.

 

[Nik74]

@apmusson I was hoping to read your impressions on this as it was your pairing of the CCA with the HMS that inspired me to try the CCA as a Roon endpoint to my Qutest with great results
What I still don’t understand due to lack of technical knowledge is how you connect Ethernet to the chromecast and at/from which end ? I hope this is not entirely out of the context of the M-Scaler thread !

 

[GreenBow]

The Hugo 2 is a very nice match with the mscaler. The TT2 has some benefits for mains use and a lot of extra power but the Hugo 2 / mscaler combo is absolutely fine if it can drive your headphones. I listened to the TT2 / mscaler combo at the weekend but am going to stick with my H2.

Yeah, the TT 2 can drive speakers too.

 

[apmusson]

@apmusson I was hoping to read your impressions on this as it was your pairing of the CCA with the HMS that inspired me to try the CCA as a Roon endpoint to my Qutest with great results
What I still don’t understand due to lack of technical knowledge is how you connect Ethernet to the chromecast and at/from which end ? I hope this is not entirely out of the context of the M-Scaler thread !

It's kind of related (vaguely!). You need an Ethernet adapter. I use the UGREEN one (Amazon £12.99) - you stick the USB A end of the cable into your power supply, plug an Ethernet cable into the socket and attach the micro USB into your Chromecast. No configuration needed - it just works.

I can't seem to link the Amazon page but search for UGREEN Ethernet adapter for Chromecast and it's pretty obvious.

BTW - you can also get a small bump in audio quality from CCA by using a better power supply than the one included with the CCA.

 

[ciukas]

I have a hugo2 outputting line level to an amplifier. For that use, the TT2's only benefit is more taps since I believe the WTA second/third stage and noise shaper is the same in Hugo2 and TT 2. And yes for me when the MScaler is added, the differences vanish.

I'm pretty sure the TT2 has a much better noise shaper performance; it is 12th order resolving better than 300dB in the digital domain vs 11th order H2 w better than 260dB. 100 times more effective than H2.

Also for headphone users, planars could especially particularly benefit from the much greater current delivery op of the TT2. I think headphones like the 4z, Ether 2, 1000SE, etc will all sound more dynamic, more full, and much more immersive on the TT2 vs H2, and likely even more so than the DAVE depending on certain types of music.

 

[apmusson]

I'm pretty sure the TT2 has a much better noise shaper performance; it is 12th order resolving better than 300dB in the digital domain vs 11th order H2 w better than 260dB. 100 times more effective than H2.

Also for headphone users, planars could especially particularly benefit from the much greater current delivery op of the TT2. I think headphones like the 4z, Ether 2, 1000SE, etc will all sound more dynamic, more full, and much more immersive on the TT2 vs H2, and likely even more so than the DAVE depending on certain types of music.

I'm sure you're correct about the technical details however for me (HD800s) the Hugo 2 is fine (amazing). The TT2 and Dave are better in many regards - if I could justify it I would buy a Dave for my mscaler but the mscaler carries the H2 a long long way up the audio food chain (sorry).

 

[danish71]

Native DSD works fine with Roon and JRiver on the M scaler - the native DSD uses Dave code. You must set the SR OP setting to white on the Hugo M scaler, otherwise it will be silent as an OP, as native can't be TX as an SPDIF directly.

I am afraid I still have issues with DSD file playback in Roon. If a PCM file is played back and I change to a DSD track the following ALWAYS happens:
1. The DX OP button lights up red.
2. The sample rate display on the Dave flickers for 4-5 seconds.
3. The DX OP light turns off completely.
4. No sound even though Roon seems to play.

The same happens if a DSD track is started without prior playback.

I can get sound from the DSD file if I switch back and forth between two different files, either between a PCM and DSD or between two DSD tracks. In the latter case it must be between DSD files of different sample rates, e.g. DSD64 and DSD128. Otherwise no sound will come out no mater how many times switching back and forth is carried out. It is my feeling that it takes longer to get any sound if the switching back and forth is carried out between two DSD tracks. It takes from 2-10 times switching back and forth until there is sound on the DSD track.
Sound is there immediately with any PCM and DXD files no matter the sample rate.
The is not difference whether I use coax 1-2 og 3-4.
There is no DSD sound whatsoever with a JCAT USB isolator or a AQ Jitterbug in the chain before the M Scaler. The Dave without M Scaler works fine with DSD, even with JCAT in the chain.
My source is a Macbook Pro 2015 with Roon running on Windows 10. USB cables are either stock cable or a QED Reference USB.

Is anybody having similar problems?

 

[Nik74]

Thank you @apmusson that clears it up.

Slightly more M-Scaler relevant : do you think that connecting the CCA without Ethernet - using a WiFi connection- would be detrimental to SQ from the M-Scaler?

 

[dawktah2]

I'm not sure why but tracks sound different when I listen to same track over WI-Fi, 300 Mbps rated, to when I listen using USB out from the Synology Server. It escapes me what the difference is and I can do a comparison and report back. I'm not sure if it was this thread or anther but it was alluded to that I should run fiber-optic from the switch to the NAS and that would eliminate any noise from network.

 

[apmusson]

Thank you @apmusson that clears it up.

Slightly more M-Scaler relevant : do you think that connecting the CCA without Ethernet - using a WiFi connection- would be detrimental to SQ from the M-Scaler?

Ethernet and WiFi seem to be quite equal in terms of sound quality from the CCA optical output. I use Ethernet because my WiFi is not always great but I'd happily manage with WiFi otherwise. It's the optical separation that seems to make a difference for mscaler. RFI hygiene / removal reaps big rewards.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

The Hugo 2 is a very nice match with the mscaler. The TT2 has some benefits for mains use and a lot of extra power but the Hugo 2 / mscaler combo is absolutely fine if it can drive your headphones. I listened to the TT2 / mscaler combo at the weekend but am going to stick with my H2.

Thanks very much. Yes, since I use the Noble Kaiser Encores, there's way more power than I need to drive them.