Jan 23, 2025 at 2:48 AM Post #19,396 of 19,723
Thanks, shows there's a susceptability in usb transfer for audio and finding one's best fit.
Just installed a new and battery powered netswitch for my streamer, bits are bits 🤣😂
Where it just comes down to is, power supplies have a big part in influencing equipment, it can make a difference in listening fatique occuring or not.

Everything dedicated (so no internal voltage regulators) battery powered would be the best.
 
Jan 23, 2025 at 3:18 AM Post #19,397 of 19,723
Where it just comes down to is, power supplies have a big part in influencing equipment, it can make a difference in listening fatique occuring or not.

Everything dedicated (so no internal voltage regulators) battery powered would be the best.
Absolutely.
Just saw a YT of someone reviewing non expensive network switches for audio, but using the bricks supplied only. I thought... dude you're reviewing 5 dollar super tiny supplies, not the switches 🙈
 
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Jan 23, 2025 at 10:32 AM Post #19,398 of 19,723
Using the optical input of the mscaler is advised by most, that is what you read and hear about. Not only does one prevent electric noise from entering the mscaler, it prevents the use of the USB chip that can have own issues. Therefore Rob says optical is reference and usb can at max match that.

That chart picture is only about the connections between mscaler and DAC.
There, near no one uses optical because optical is limited technology and we want to upscale above that technological limitation.

Mscaler comes to value by full upscaling ie x16. You don't pay for less than its full potential, right?
At x16 even a coax cant handle that, you need double coax connection.

Confusing about that chart is the black horizontal lines RED (BYPASS) it suggests input = output. Lets look at the lowest horizontal lack line. Suppose you upscale in a PC (with HQPLAYER for example) to 705 - 768 and lead that with usb cable into the mscaler. That chart suggests all mscaler outputs copy that, also 1 bcn or even optical. That is impossible.

Practically: you don't buy mscaler to upscale less than "white" ie x16. Would be a waste of money if less. This obliges the use of dual bnc.
For mitigating electrical noise and groundloop stuff (because it's not optical) people use heavily ferrited bnc cables and/or feed the mscaler with a veeery clean battery power.

Many people like myself promote to feed mscaler with bit perfect data meaning no pre upscaling in pc nor dsp nor volume treating... with optical. It can carry 192 files that cover almost everything out there as a source.

So theres little advantage using that chart. It shows what happens when you deviate from mscalers true purpose of use which is in short {white + double bnc} into a Chord DAC.
Mscaler doesn't jive extremely well with other brands dacs, it's not desinged nor supposed for that. Forget the chart 😉
I also preferred the optical to all other inputs until I took care of as many noise sources as I could (power conditioners/supplies, network cables/switches, cables).
In my current state, the BNC input is head and shoulders above the optical.
 
Jan 23, 2025 at 11:32 AM Post #19,399 of 19,723
I also preferred the optical to all other inputs until I took care of as many noise sources as I could (power conditioners/supplies, network cables/switches, cables).
In my current state, the BNC input is head and shoulders above the optical.
What exactly did you do and what Streamer via BNC are you using?
 
Jan 23, 2025 at 11:48 AM Post #19,400 of 19,723
What exactly did you do and what Streamer via BNC are you using?
Ifi Lan Purifier Pro -> Ansuz Switch -> Aurender N200 -> Denafrips GAIA DDC -> M Scaler (Farad S3 LPS)

Shunyata mid range cables all around.

In its stock form optical into the M Scaler sounded best, I agree.

But optical is not free, due to double conversion (E-to-O, O-to-E) which inevitably degrades the signal.

I know Rob W claims that his products are immune to jitter, but this claim is easily disproved by hearing SQ improvements with better sources (like GAIA DDC).
 
Jan 23, 2025 at 11:51 AM Post #19,401 of 19,723
Ifi Lan Purifier Pro -> Ansuz Switch -> Aurender N200 -> Denafrips GAIA DDC -> M Scaler (Farad S3 LPS)

Shunyata mid range cables all around.

In its stock form optical into the M Scaler sounded best, I agree.

But optical is not free, due to double conversion (E-to-O, O-to-E) which inevitably degrades the signal.

I know Rob W claims that his products are immune to jitter, but this claim is easily disproved by hearing SQ improvements with better sources (like GAIA DDC).
most of the time a better source, is 9 out 10 times always a cleaner source (so less noise in de the device itself)
 
Jan 23, 2025 at 11:59 AM Post #19,402 of 19,723
Ifi Lan Purifier Pro -> Ansuz Switch -> Aurender N200 -> Denafrips GAIA DDC -> M Scaler (Farad S3 LPS)

Shunyata mid range cables all around.

In its stock form optical into the M Scaler sounded best, I agree.

But optical is not free, due to double conversion (E-to-O, O-to-E) which inevitably degrades the signal.

I know Rob W claims that his products are immune to jitter, but this claim is easily disproved by hearing SQ improvements with better sources (like GAIA DDC).
most of the time a better source, is 9 out 10 times always a cleaner source (so less noise in de the device itself)
True.
All I can say is that with all other things equal, in my setup BNC is significantly better than optical.
Both are driven by GAIA DDC.
I cannot rule out possibility of GAIA's optical output being inferior to other implementations though.
 
Jan 23, 2025 at 3:14 PM Post #19,403 of 19,723
That GAIA must have a really good power section.

I just compared my cheap streamer (netgear gs108) fed with battery vs ifi powerX. The difference immediately noticed was in de deep bass. The battery digged deeper wider solid texture galore. Bass was twice as good.
Batt is 13,2V vs 12V ifi. Dunno about that.
I can't believe the ifi aint super, I saw it measured as very good. I suppose it has more to do with batt being free from my grid.
 
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Jan 23, 2025 at 3:50 PM Post #19,404 of 19,723
Ifi Lan Purifier Pro -> Ansuz Switch -> Aurender N200 -> Denafrips GAIA DDC -> M Scaler (Farad S3 LPS)

Shunyata mid range cables all around.

In its stock form optical into the M Scaler sounded best, I agree.

But optical is not free, due to double conversion (E-to-O, O-to-E) which inevitably degrades the signal.

I know Rob W claims that his products are immune to jitter, but this claim is easily disproved by hearing SQ improvements with better sources (like GAIA DDC).
I see, you did a lot. Now enjoy.
 
Jan 24, 2025 at 11:46 AM Post #19,405 of 19,723
I have both 2Go/2Yu and an Innuos Zen mk3. The Innuos via USB sounds more to my taste than the Chord combo via toslink. However (there’s always an however), the 2Go/2Yu is cleaner and clearer sounding with better resolution in the bass, but the Innuos presents a far deeper and taller stage (especially with speakers) and is more dynamically alive. Differing price points, of course, but the Innuos has a wonderful app and it’s ripped my CD collection.
I would very much love a streamer with the best virtues of both! Perhaps the newest generation of Innuos will be the answer, with user choice of output modules adding Toslink (yes!). Or perhaps the upcoming TT series streamer will answer my prayers? Performance commensurate with HMS/TT2 and hopefully a dedicated app of excellence?

This is the first I have heard of a new streamer from Chord. Would you mind posting links to any information regarding this ?
 
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Jan 24, 2025 at 12:02 PM Post #19,406 of 19,723
Personally I'm still debating whether I would upgrade to a TT2 or DAVE. The experiments I've conducted around the Hugo 2 with the 2Go(direct USB connection) vs Douk U2(Optical) vs SRC_DX (BNC) have lead me to prefer the SRC-DX with HQPlayer and PGGB. The upsampling provides me with similar benefits to the m-scaler, I'm not sure whether I would prefer the m-scaler vs these options. I'd really need to demo within my current system which I know quite well by now. However the SRC-DX compared to optical provided a cleaner overall presentation with improved timbre and better upper base definition, one example would be The Smoke - The Smile you can fully hear the texture of the bass, where as optical appears more muddy/veiled.

So for me right now (willing to change my mind) - JPlay (iPad controlling app) -> Laptop running on batteries - HQPlayer Desktop (either all filters off playing PGGB 107 free version) or Sinc-L or poly-sinc-gaus-long -> SRC-DX -> dac - then amp and Susvara. Unfortunately I also here a difference between Roon -> dac, Roon -> HQPlayer and JPlay -> HQPlayer, although HQPlayer client sounds the same as JPlay. With 'freewheel' HQPlayer downloads the entire track and plays from memory so limits the network traffic - although if you play gapless it will mean a sudden burst of network traffic to cache the next track. PGGB tracks are running on a minim server/Synology NAS and tracks are streamed mostly from Qobuz.

In an ideal world I'd like to take this current config and add a streamer like a Pulsar, Antipodes and compare with other dacs such as Gustard X30, Tambaqui, DAVE/TT2.
 

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