[GoldenSound]

I thought Chord products were very resilient in the face of jitter, independent of input. Is this incorrect?

The DACs are but the MScaler has much higher jitter output (four times as high) when using SPDIF input

USB In:

SPDIF in:

 

[LeeJB1970]

I assume this doesn't matter for the Chord dacs though as their jitter control is first class?

 

[GoldenSound]

I assume this doesn't matter for the Chord dacs though as their jitter control is first class?

Not sure, I didn't check phase noise/jitter increase when using MScaler in this way so would need to test next time I get one in.

The Chord DACs are highly resistant to jitter but not immune so idk. But IMO best to go with the option that is drastically better anyway if you can even if the end result isn't any different

 

[LeeJB1970]

Not sure, I didn't check phase noise/jitter increase when using MScaler in this way so would need to test next time I get one in.

The Chord DACs are highly resistant to jitter but not immune so idk. But IMO best to go with the option that is drastically better anyway if you can even if the end result isn't any different

Would be interesting to see if the Chords dacs are affected. I'm using optical input and battery on my Mscaler and then onto a Chord Dave via bnc. Will look at the Intona though.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

The DACs are but the MScaler has much higher jitter output (four times as high) when using SPDIF input

USB In:


SPDIF in:

I would like @Rob Watts to confirm this, Rob recommends Toslink into the M Scaler and you're saying the opposite.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Not sure, I didn't check phase noise/jitter increase when using MScaler in this way so would need to test next time I get one in.

The Chord DACs are highly resistant to jitter but not immune so idk. But IMO best to go with the option that is drastically better anyway if you can even if the end result isn't any different

Well Amir did . When he tried to put down the M scaler and then had to show jitter performance on a Chord DAC from the M Scaler and there was basically zero jitter.

 

[GoldenSound]

I would like @Rob Watts to confirm this, Rob recommends Toslink into the M Scaler and you're saying the opposite.

He recommends it for noise reasons, which is fine

Well Amir did . When he tried to put down the M scaler and then had to show jitter performance on a Chord DAC from the M Scaler and there was basically zero jitter.

Amir didn't test jitter with a Chord DAC connected to the MScaler as far as I'm aware. And my measurements were done with the MScaler connected via USB which has the lower jitter.
Also Amir's tests showed various issues that were not evident in my testing so idk what was up with his measurements to be honest.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

He recommends it for noise reasons, which is fine

Amir didn't test jitter with a Chord DAC connected to the MScaler as far as I'm aware. And my measurements were done with the MScaler connected via USB which has the lower jitter.
Also Amir's tests showed various issues that were not evident in my testing so idk what was up with his measurements to be honest.

Check again, he tested it with a Hugo 2 after his fans told him to, he first used some cheap Chi-Fi DAC and then used a Hugo 2, which showed Zero jitter connected to the M Scaler. I wonder why Rob would design a box like the M scaler which would feed jitter to his own DACs and degrade the performance, oh, wait, his designs reject jitter more than any DAC I've seen according to the measurements.

 

[GoldenSound]

Check again, he tested it with a Hugo 2 after his fans told him to, he first used some cheap Chi-Fi DAC and then used a Hugo 2, which showed Zero jitter connected to the M Scaler. I wonder why Rob would design a box like the M scaler which would feed jitter to his own DACs and degrade the performance, oh, wait, his designs reject jitter more than any DAC I've seen according to the measurements.

He only measured SINAD through the Hugo 2, not jitter as far as I can see

 

[GuiltyRocker]

He recommends it for noise reasons, which is fine

Amir didn't test jitter with a Chord DAC connected to the MScaler as far as I'm aware. And my measurements were done with the MScaler connected via USB which has the lower jitter.
Also Amir's tests showed various issues that were not evident in my testing so idk what was up with his measurements to be honest.

Also your comment that he recommends it for noise reasons is not correct, he recommends it for lower noise AND the fact that the supposed issue of Toslink, jitter, is NOT an issue with Chord.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Well, you have an Audio precision, measure the jitter performance of the Chord M Scaler connected to the Chord DAC while Being fed via Toslink, then we can see. And, it would be nice to see your AP console settings, as your video clearly states, don't trust measurements.

 

[GoldenSound]

Also your comment that he recommends it for noise reasons is not correct, he recommends it for lower noise AND the fact that the supposed issue of Toslink, jitter, is NOT an issue with Chord.

The jitter resistance is specific to the DACs. As shown above, the Mscaler has demonstrably much higher jitter at the output when using spdif. (And the DAVE when connected had a little bit higher jitter when using MScaler with USB even if just a bit, hence wondering how it would do if the MScaler was connected with SPDIF)

Chord DACs ARE very resistant to jitter but again as mentioned, not immune and do have measurably higher jitter when connected to very high jitter sources, and 6nS jitter is quite a bit to be honest, also with lots of random jitter rather than deterministic/sinusoidal so it would be worth testing.

Well, you have an Audio precision, measure the jitter performance of the Chord M Scaler connected to the Chord DAC while Being fed via Toslink, then we can see. And, it would be nice to see your AP console settings, as your video clearly states, don't trust measurements.

I'd be glad to next time I have the opportunity (I don't own an MScaler myself unfortunately).
My AP console settings are always fully documented in the documents attached to my measurement posts if you'd like to look. My DAVE full report for example I've attached to this message

 

[GuiltyRocker]

The jitter resistance is specific to the DACs. As shown above, the Mscaler has demonstrably much higher jitter at the output when using spdif. (And the DAVE when connected had a little bit higher jitter when using MScaler with USB even if just a bit, hence wondering how it would do if the MScaler was connected with SPDIF)

Chord DACs ARE very resistant to jitter but again as mentioned, not immune and do have measurably higher jitter when connected to very high jitter sources, and 6nS jitter is quite a bit to be honest, also with lots of random jitter rather than deterministic/sinusoidal so it would be worth testing.


I'd be glad to next time I have the opportunity (I don't own an MScaler myself unfortunately).
My AP console settings are always fully documented in the documents attached to my measurement posts if you'd like to look. My DAVE full report for example I've attached to this message

Thanks, it will be nice to see fresh measurements with an M Scaler? Where are you geographically? I may send you my M Scaler so you can test.

 

[GoldenSound]

Thanks, it will be nice to see fresh measurements with an M Scaler? Where are you geographically? I may send you my M Scaler so you can test.

I'm near Winchester in the UK.
If you'd be happy to lend yours I'd be very grateful!

 

[dac64]

With USB the data integrity (altering of the actual 1's and 0's) would only depend on whether the player/source was doing any kind of DSP. Same for SPDIF etc. 99% of DDCs, streamers, sources are or have the ability to be ,,,

Thanks for the well structured details! It's easy to understand, importantly, it'll benefit those layman.