How to fix poor bass & volume fluctuations?
Apr 28, 2022 at 1:25 PM Post #16 of 26
I'm using a Mi 9T Pro which has a Qualcomm WCD9340 audio chip

Where'd you get the output numbers? Because when I searched for that chip it says power consumption is 34mW or 6mW depending on power mode. Whether that was badly phrased ie it's the output not the uptake from the battery these are far off the power figures you found.

In any case Qualcomm has gotten better over the years if my SGS3 (horrible) and S9 are the basis (both are T-Mobile so no Wolfson chips), so I wouldn't think it's a matter of distortion and noise levels. It could be a software issue, but what's weird is if it happens on other devices with other EQ programs.


Well, those headphones came with a standard 3 pole plug cable. They also say on their website that it sounds "terrific on your smartphone", and I'm fairly sure that most (if not all) smartphones don't support balanced output.

Quite possible that those power ratings were for balanced drive if you configure two of the chips to do that, but not for one running single-ended ie the phone manufacturer has to use the chip in such a manner to get that output.


I've plugged my headphones directly into the laptop's 3.5mm jack and played music from storage. At this point I doubt that it has anything to do with the equalizer.

It could be your music files. Where'd you get them?
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 2:27 PM Post #17 of 26
If you're still getting clipping (which is what it sounds like to me) I'm guessing the software is designed poorly and only applies gain, relative to the chosen settings.
Basically, there is no relative preamp global volume, and the software is as basic as it gets.

I'm guessing it's likely a software bug or incomplete feature.

Also I'm not sure installing a 3rd party equalizer would solve the issue, as it could be directly related to the design of the sound hardware and driver.
It's still worth a shot, but I wouldn't expect miracles.
I'm using Viper4Android, which is considered to be the best equalizer software on Android among audiophiles as far as I'm aware, so I doubt poorly designed software is the issue here. And again, the same happens on a laptop with completely different hardware, driver & equalizer.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much from those headphones? I also have a Momentum 2 where the bass, although much less detailed, feels a lot more powerful. I was hoping I could replicate this on the He400s.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 2:36 PM Post #18 of 26
Ooooh.. you have the HE-400S.

Sorry, I misread your first post where you wrote "I have a pair of HE400s" ... which is a grammatically correct way of saying that you have an HE-400.

Anyway, they're known for having pretty weak bass and an early roll-off... very much unlike almost all other planars ever made.
I wouldn't be surprised if the driver is just crapping out under the stress of EQ.
But I've never owned the 400S, so I can't be sure... it's the only final possibility I can think of.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 2:38 PM Post #19 of 26
Where'd you get the output numbers? Because when I searched for that chip it says power consumption is 34mW or 6mW depending on power mode. Whether that was badly phrased ie it's the output not the uptake from the battery these are far off the power figures you found.

In any case Qualcomm has gotten better over the years if my SGS3 (horrible) and S9 are the basis (both are T-Mobile so no Wolfson chips), so I wouldn't think it's a matter of distortion and noise levels. It could be a software issue, but what's weird is if it happens on other devices with other EQ programs.
Yeah I think I got the wrong number, not even sure where I found the pdf specsheet anymore.

Quite possible that those power ratings were for balanced drive if you configure two of the chips to do that, but not for one running single-ended ie the phone manufacturer has to use the chip in such a manner to get that output.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Would an external amplifier remove this failure mode?

It could be your music files. Where'd you get them?
Nah definitely not that, I'm using flacs from bandcamp
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM Post #20 of 26
Ooooh.. you have the HE-400S.

Sorry, I misread your first post where you wrote "I have a pair of HE400s" ... which is a grammatically correct way of saying that you have an HE-400.

Anyway, they're known for having pretty weak bass and an early roll-off... very much unlike almost all other planars ever made.
I wouldn't be surprised if the driver is just crapping out under the stress of EQ.
But I've never owned the 400S, so I can't be sure... it's the only final possibility I can think of.
Yeah lol didn't realize the HE400 exists too.
I'll have to test some other planars then. I was under the impression that roll-offs can be almost completely negated with proper Eq settings, well apparently not.
 
Apr 29, 2022 at 12:24 PM Post #21 of 26
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

An integrated audio chip is basically a DAC chip with a tiny output stage built in instead of the usual DAC chip > line output opamp > amp output stage opamp, the latter arrangement having more ways to connect to a bigger power supply on better designs.

Think of an integrated audio chip like a computer APU ie the GPU is built into the CPU and uses the system RAM because it has no dedicated VRAM and doesn't have its own PCI-E power source and VRMs.

So think of what I described as a possible implementation of it for differential drive being the use of multiple output stages in the integrated audio chip, or using two of those audio chips where a DSP can split left and right channel digital and then have each audio chip decode each channel and then use its own output stage to run one channel of differential drive as kind of like if you do old school Crossfire with an AMD A8 APU and an dedicated AMD Radeon GPU. Or as Adobe does with Intel and any dGPU, "GPU acceleration" (or whatever it's called), except in the case of the audio chip the chips are symmetrical.


Would an external amplifier remove this failure mode?

If the problem is indeed power on your phone's amp circuit, then yes.

However if the problem is the software or how that software interacts with what hardware it's aware of ie just the phone (it doesn't really know if an earphone or amplifier is connected), then no. Maybe it knows there's something else if you hooked up a DAC-HPamp, but the weird part is you're getting the exact same problem on another device using another EQ app.


Nah definitely not that, I'm using flacs from bandcamp

Have you tried any other files that didn't come from Bandcamp just to be sure? Because you're getting the same problem on two different devices using two different EQ apps.
 
Apr 29, 2022 at 6:01 PM Post #22 of 26
but the weird part is you're getting the exact same problem on another device using another EQ app.
Which leads me to believe that that's just something that some headphones do when you try to get substantially more bass out of them than they were designed for. Is this kind of behavior really completely out of the question with working hardware and software?
I've ordered a $40 portable amplifier because it annoys me that I don't know what's happening, but I don't have anything that supports balanced output so I can't test that sadly.

Have you tried any other files that didn't come from Bandcamp just to be sure?
This has been an issue ever since I got them, so yeah, same thing happens if I stream from Spotify or YouTube, or if I use other files.
 
Apr 30, 2022 at 1:54 AM Post #23 of 26
Which leads me to believe that that's just something that some headphones do when you try to get substantially more bass out of them than they were designed for. Is this kind of behavior really completely out of the question with working hardware and software?

The thing is if it was the driver ie the EQ is clipping and causing driver distortion, the driver will not suddenly make everything else soften just to try to reproduce those dynamic bass notes. A driver is a "dumb" part, and for the most part, so is the amp (I mean outside of temp/stability or turn on thump protections etc) that cannot selectively do that.

Like...while I may make the analogy that the amp output stage and power supply are like an engine and the preamp is like the transmission, you can't just equate transducers (ie audio drivers) to tyres/wheels on modern cars for one reason: sometimes the analogy is the road/traction is output impedance to load impedance, or in a more specific example to the problem you're having, modern cars have AWD and traction control. Amps and transducers don't have anything like this other than, say, crossover on a speaker deciding which transducer gets what frequencies, but ultimately when a high dynamic range note comes in it can't mute the other sounds in a manner like how AWD with TorSen limited slip differentials on both axles sends all the engine torque to just one side or just one wheel that it senses has the most traction (like the outer wheels when you're cornering, and front-rear distribution is affected by the weight distribution and angle the chassis is at).

There is however one other possibility: maybe we don't completely understand each other on what's happening based on your description. Maybe it is clipping, hence the need for more power, but it's not so much that everything else is softer but that everything is softer. Including that bass note, except it's louder compared to everything else but could be even louder if it was getting enough power.


I've ordered a $40 portable amplifier because it annoys me that I don't know what's happening, but I don't have anything that supports balanced output so I can't test that sadly.

If your amp is single ended then it will only take single ended input, which a three prong plug can deliver from the phone to the amp. Not ideal as I would personally use a DAC-HPamp (regardless of whether it's SE or balanced; so long as it doesn't rely on bus power from the USB port) so the transmission of the audio signal will be from the smartphone's CPU as digital audio going into the DAC stage. But if it's just for testing if it might be power, then I guess not having to deal with a DAC-HPamp that may not work can be a temporary solution.

As for balanced drive...you'll have to check the phone and amp specs. If either outputs balanced then if your headphones/IEMs have removable cables then all you need to do is get the right kind of cable. But balanced drive on the phone is practically unheard of that even Quad DAC doesn't work that way the same way a dual mono DAC to HP amp circuit does.


This has been an issue ever since I got them, so yeah, same thing happens if I stream from Spotify or YouTube, or if I use other files.

Might be a hardware problem, and also that the description isn't what it seems to be ie not a software problem.
 
Apr 30, 2022 at 4:46 AM Post #24 of 26
Maybe it is clipping, hence the need for more power, but it's not so much that everything else is softer but that everything is softer. Including that bass note, except it's louder compared to everything else but could be even louder if it was getting enough power.
That's probably it. I think I interpreted everything getting silent on bass notes as the bass dominating, but it really isn't loud either.

Not ideal as I would personally use a DAC-HPamp (regardless of whether it's SE or balanced; so long as it doesn't rely on bus power from the USB port) so the transmission of the audio signal will be from the smartphone's CPU as digital audio going into the DAC stage. But if it's just for testing if it might be power, then I guess not having to deal with a DAC-HPamp that may not work can be a temporary solution.
A dac amp will not work because for some odd reason, my Xiaomi phone can only deliver digital signal to Xiaomi USB headphones. I'm wondering if it's an actual hardware limitation or if it's just another instance of companies being scummy.
 
Apr 30, 2022 at 9:40 AM Post #25 of 26
A dac amp will not work because for some odd reason, my Xiaomi phone can only deliver digital signal to Xiaomi USB headphones. I'm wondering if it's an actual hardware limitation or if it's just another instance of companies being scummy.

That's probably either a kind of software lock or lack of software support, ie, it only has drivers for the USB headphones and it doesn't work like generic drivers.
 

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