How to fix poor bass & volume fluctuations?
Apr 27, 2022 at 9:59 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 26

fiso64

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I have a HE400S, which are great in all but bass. But when I try fixing it with an EQ, I notice that the music gets almost completely silent whenever there's a bass kick at higher volumes. The maximum volume is also rather low. I am using them with my Android phone. Can this be fixed with an external amplifier?

According to the specs of the audio chip in my device, it's supposed to be able to give 120mW at 32 ohms and 150mW at 16 (I may be looking at the wrong number here, I found it under "rx processing" and then "class h differential output"). I haven't really seen any portable amplifiers with a much higher output. Is the mW value the right thing to look for here?
 
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Apr 27, 2022 at 11:33 AM Post #2 of 26
Hi,
Yes those need more power. I had the 400se model which any phone can power so I'd switch to that rather than buying a portable amp to keep charged as well. For phones, the AKG K371pro are wonderful and have good bass and efficiency. They're closed back too and I have them and the he400i and on the phone it's no contest since the k371 is fully powered and goes really loud.
 
Apr 27, 2022 at 1:16 PM Post #3 of 26
Hi,
Yes those need more power. I had the 400se model which any phone can power so I'd switch to that rather than buying a portable amp to keep charged as well. For phones, the AKG K371pro are wonderful and have good bass and efficiency. They're closed back too and I have them and the he400i and on the phone it's no contest since the k371 is fully powered and goes really loud.
I'm probably misunderstanding how it works, but according to hifiman, the HE400s is 22 ohms whereas the HE400se is 25. Wouldn't that mean that they need more power?
 
Apr 27, 2022 at 2:39 PM Post #4 of 26
HE400s is 22 ohms whereas the HE400se is 25
Better look at sensitivity if you want to know the relation between power and SPL.

I notice that the music gets almost completely silent whenever there's a bass kick at higher volumes
Weird, wonder what you have done.
If you set the EQ to flat and boost the 100 Hz a little e.g. 5 dB, does that help?
 
Apr 27, 2022 at 4:03 PM Post #5 of 26
Better look at sensitivity if you want to know the relation between power and SPL.


Weird, wonder what you have done.
If you set the EQ to flat and boost the 100 Hz a little e.g. 5 dB, does that help?
The 400s also has a higher sensitivity than the 400se.

I'm currently using the AutoEQ for those headphones and boosting 5db at the lower end (though those fluctuations also happen with just the autoEq, or if I just boost the 100hz for 5db). It does help, but it's just not loud enough because of those volume fluctuations.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 3:45 AM Post #6 of 26
This sounds very much like an EQ software issue in combination with the phone.
For some reason, it sounds like it's introducing clipping to the other frequencies which is a very common EQ software issue.

Instead of boosting the bass in the EQ, I'm pretty sure you will get better results by reducing all the other frequencies equally.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 9:08 AM Post #7 of 26
This sounds very much like an EQ software issue in combination with the phone.
For some reason, it sounds like it's introducing clipping to the other frequencies which is a very common EQ software issue.

Instead of boosting the bass in the EQ, I'm pretty sure you will get better results by reducing all the other frequencies equally.
Sadly reducing all other frequencies equally produces the same effect. I also tried it on my laptop with equalizer APO, same thing
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 9:53 AM Post #8 of 26
Is it possible you might be setting the EQ to extreme values?
That would also a cause for this problem, even with subractive EQ (opposed to additive EQ).

Anything over 8-10dB I would consider 'extreme'.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 10:23 AM Post #10 of 26
Apr 28, 2022 at 10:47 AM Post #11 of 26
I have a pair of HE400s, which are great in all but bass. But when I try fixing it with an EQ, I notice that the music gets almost completely silent whenever there's a bass kick at higher volumes. The maximum volume is also rather low. I am using them with my Android phone. Can this be fixed with an external amplifier?

If the problem were power it wouldn't likely just suddenly lower the volume of everything else. Perceptively it can, ie auditory masking, just not only during peaks.

This might be an issue with the EQ software.

According to the specs of the audio chip in my device, it's supposed to be able to give 120mW at 32 ohms and 150mW at 16 (I may be looking at the wrong number here, I found it under "rx processing" and then "class h differential output"). I haven't really seen any portable amplifiers with a much higher output. Is the mW value the right thing to look for here?

Er...what device is that exactly?

That outputs kind of high. That's way above the limit of what some smaller DAPs are rated for, like the Quad DAC ESS9218 (ie similar tech as in the LG phones) in the Hidizs AP80 that produces 70mW per channel on Class G (albeit a very quiet one). That's more on par with older DAPs using a dedicated DAC chip, line output, and amplifier output stages using op-amps...on Class A/B mode. So one possible explanation might be that that chip really is designed to crank out more power, then they rated it at a higher power and distortion+noise rating (ie in some cases even the same circuit or chip can actually produce more power than what it is rated for, but past that point the distortion and noise really start piling on). If you're into computers, think of it this way: you can have an RTX 3070 at 125w+25w dynamic boost (Asus) or 140w (Alienware) or 150w (best MSI), which is kind of like the DAP; and then you can have a desktop RTX 3070 running at 2250mhz core and +750mhz on the VRAM sucking over 300w, but it perpetually crashes due to core instability, which is kind of what might be happening on that Class H chip.

That said the problem you're having seems to be more of software bug.

That or the keyword there is "differential output," meaning you need to use a plug and cable that completely isolates L- and R- on two independent pins on the plug and on the cable all the way to the drivers to get that much output, more commonly known as "balanced drive." If that's the case it may only have half that. Check if your device takes a 4-pole jack that is not just for the mic. If it does, then you might need to try out a cable for your headphone that has these specs (note: not just the plug, it has to be the whole cable). Using a regular SE cable into the normal jack will at minimum mean the actual power output might only be half what it's rated for.

Sadly reducing all other frequencies equally produces the same effect. I also tried it on my laptop with equalizer APO, same thing

How exactly did you try it on the laptop? You used EQ APO on the laptop with your earphones hooked up to the laptop's 3.5mm jack, or are you using BT to stream from the laptop to the phone?

If you're plugged into the laptop and playing music stored on or streamed from the internet by the laptop that's kind of weird that two apps would simultaneously have the same bug; if you're streaming music on your phone to the laptop (note: not the remote mode on Spotify or HiByLink for example) it could be that the Android EQ app is still running; if you're streaming from the laptop to the Android, then the audio chip on the phone might be causing it, or the Android EQ app is also running.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 11:19 AM Post #12 of 26
Er...what device is that exactly?
I'm using a Mi 9T Pro which has a Qualcomm WCD9340 audio chip

That or the keyword there is "differential output," meaning you need to use a plug and cable that completely isolates L- and R- on two independent pins on the plug and on the cable all the way to the drivers to get that much output, more commonly known as "balanced drive." If that's the case it may only have half that. Check if your device takes a 4-pole jack that is not just for the mic. If it does, then you might need to try out a cable for your headphone that has these specs (note: not just the plug, it has to be the whole cable). Using a regular SE cable into the normal jack will at minimum mean the actual power output might only be half what it's rated for.
Well, those headphones came with a standard 3 pole plug cable. They also say on their website that it sounds "terrific on your smartphone", and I'm fairly sure that most (if not all) smartphones don't support balanced output.

How exactly did you try it on the laptop? You used EQ APO on the laptop with your earphones hooked up to the laptop's 3.5mm jack, or are you using BT to stream from the laptop to the phone?
I've plugged my headphones directly into the laptop's 3.5mm jack and played music from storage. At this point I doubt that it has anything to do with the equalizer.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 11:27 AM Post #13 of 26
If there are any available, turn off any 'audio enhancements' on the phone, like Dolby Atmos.
See if that helps.
(just throwing out more ideas for troubleshooting at this point)
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 12:06 PM Post #14 of 26
If there are any available, turn off any 'audio enhancements' on the phone, like Dolby Atmos.
See if that helps.
(just throwing out more ideas for troubleshooting at this point)
I use the mi sound enhancer, but turning it off doesn't remove those fluctuations. I also tried my friend's HE400se, and the issue is still there.

So it's not the headphones, cable, eq, and not even the device that's at fault (it would seem). Then what the hell is happening here? It's not like I want unreasonable amounts of bass either, I just want to fix the obviously poor frequency response at the lower end and add an additional 4 or 5db.
 
Apr 28, 2022 at 1:13 PM Post #15 of 26
If you're still getting clipping (which is what it sounds like to me) I'm guessing the software is designed poorly and only applies gain, relative to the chosen settings.
Basically, there is no relative preamp global volume, and the software is as basic as it gets.

I'm guessing it's likely a software bug or incomplete feature.

Also I'm not sure installing a 3rd party equalizer would solve the issue, as it could be directly related to the design of the sound hardware and driver.
It's still worth a shot, but I wouldn't expect miracles.
 

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