[setekh]

Hi guys,

I've been wandering around the forum for a while, but truth be told, I'm a far cry from being able to say I understand most of what's going on.

Anyway, I was wondering what kind of system would be deemed acceptable by your standards. I mean, how low-end can you get without taking a huge hit in quality. I don't consider myself to be

I read a few threads where people go with a uDAC and a pair of M-Audio Studiophile AV 40 powered speakers. That would amount to about $300, right? Since I was thinking about using both speakers and headphones, it might be a good option, I suppose.

Still, I am buying a desktop PC (currently with a laptop only), and the integrated sound card has an optical out.

 

[killertofu]

Hi setekh,

I'm new to higher-grade audio as well and took the route you just mentioned. I picked up a uDAC and connected it to a pair of Audioengine A2 speakers and a 10" sub. It works well for my small desk and sounds much better than my previous Logitech z2300 system. $300-400 is an understandable range if you're just getting into it.

It's easy for this stuff to become quite expensive so be careful...

 

[Frequen C]

Basically, you get what you pay for. If I was in your situation I would invest in a good pair of headphones and save up for a higher-quality speaker system.

 

[killertofu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frequen C /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basically, you get what you pay for. If I was in your situation I would invest in a good pair of headphones and save up for a higher-quality speaker system.

I agree with your point but feel that it depends on the person's background. I haven't heard expensive gear and think the affordable Grado SR60i's sound absolutely incredible. I'm not a big audio-head so the price-to-quality ratio makes expensive gear a bit excessive to me.

That's just my opinion though. Find a place with a good return policy or listen to your options in person. Headphones are a great route to go as well.

 

[Blisse]

Are you talking about a computer system? or an audio system?

A decent desktop can be built for around 400-500. I haven't looked in a while, but that was around the price a few months back.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frequen C /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basically, you get what you pay for.

I couldn't disagree more. If ever there was a place where "you get what you pay for" should be displaced by "let the buyer beware," it's high-end audio. Few product categories are as ripe with voodoo science (or complete denial of science...) happily peddled at outrageous mark-ups and represented, gratis, by legions of on-line fans.

It is a snake-oil pit.

If you want good computer audio, particularly on your desktop, I'd bi-pass the high end altogether and go straight to your local music shop. Any Guitar Center or Sam Ash Music's home recording room has active desktop monitors that are likely to out-perform about anything at the entry-level of the "high-end" for quite a bit less. They're not all good. Some have the trebles juiced up to emulate "detail." Some have a mid-bass hump to create the illusion of bass that can't be produced by 5 to 6 inch woofers (you may like this, but consider buying something accurate and using EQ). Keep your ears on. The little Yamaha monitors are ungodly good for the money, but they don't fake any bass, so they won't fool you into believing they have any. You may want the sub. Lots of other good stuff in that market too...

P

 

[setekh]

I should have clarified - I'm looking for an audio system. The rest of the hardware I know my way around.

Phelonious Ponk expressed exactly what I am concerned about. I know I don't care for high-end setups due to the hefty price tag, which I can't see as justified. I'd like hardware that doesn't distracts from the music experience and that's pretty much it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frequen C /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basically, you get what you pay for. If I was in your situation I would invest in a good pair of headphones and save up for a higher-quality speaker system.

Well, I use a pair fo AKG K530. I find they sound in a friend's hi-fi system (not as good as his K501, but good nonetheless) and, quite frankly, I don't find a reason to trade up. Or is there something I am blatantly ignoring?

Quote:

Originally Posted by killertofu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi setekh, I'm new to higher-grade audio as well and took the route you just mentioned. I picked up a uDAC and connected it to a pair of Audioengine A2 speakers and a 10" sub. It works well for my small desk and sounds much better than my previous Logitech z2300 system. $300-400 is an understandable range if you're just getting into it. It's easy for this stuff to become quite expensive so be careful...

I am really considering going that route. Well, maybe forget about the 10'' sub, but the general principle stands. It's reassuring to know that you're happy with your setup.

Do you also use headphones connected to the uDAC?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif (...) If you want good computer audio, particularly on your desktop, I'd bi-pass the high end altogether and go straight to your local music shop. Any Guitar Center or Sam Ash Music's home recording room has active desktop monitors that are likely to out-perform about anything at the entry-level of the "high-end" for quite a bit less. They're not all good. Some have the trebles juiced up to emulate "detail." Some have a mid-bass hump to create the illusion of bass that can't be produced by 5 to 6 inch woofers (you may like this, but consider buying something accurate and using EQ). Keep your ears on. The little Yamaha monitors are ungodly good for the money, but they don't fake any bass, so they won't fool you into believing they have any. You may want the sub. Lots of other good stuff in that market too... P

Any other brands you'd like to recommend? Or even models. Oh, maybe I should point out that I'm across the pond. Availability differs greatly in some cases.

I'd like to try to go 2.0 before thinking about adding a sub. It does annoy me when the bass sounds muddled or not at all, so I might end up having to shell out for one. I did, however, play a few gigs with a surprisingly deep 2x8'' cab, which restored my faith in good sound and small packages

.

And thanks for your replies.

 

[ayz]

Don't get the M-Audio AV40 speakers. Get the BX5a's instead. I've tried both and the BX5a's sound much much better.

 

[waterlogic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by setekh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi guys, I've been wandering around the forum for a while, but truth be told, I'm a far cry from being able to say I understand most of what's going on. Anyway, I was wondering what kind of system would be deemed acceptable by your standards. I mean, how low-end can you get without taking a huge hit in quality. I don't consider myself to be I read a few threads where people go with a uDAC and a pair of M-Audio Studiophile AV 40 powered speakers. That would amount to about $300, right? Since I was thinking about using both speakers and headphones, it might be a good option, I suppose. Still, I am buying a desktop PC (currently with a laptop only), and the integrated sound card has an optical out.

If your final aim is not a desktop speaker audio system, but a solid room audio system do not waste your money on mediocre desktop speakers, buy a Dac & hp amp combo (uDAC is meant for mobile use - you can go with that but do not expect musical nirvana) and a pair of solid HP (100-150 $) that are not picky about amplification. I am saying this, for I believe the most important part of a good audio system are the speakers . Save money for good speakers, amp and the rest is secondary IMO.
Your target speakers IMO should define the amplification to make up a good sounding system. So in the meantime save your money and audition as many speakers as you can and do not save for ridiculously expensive cabling of any kind (audio, digital, etc) they do not make any difference .
Good Luck !

 

[Ypoknons]

My nuForce Icon => Minipod setup is a fun, easy to listen to setup. Needs more bass though, a subwoofer could really help.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by setekh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I should have clarified - I'm looking for an audio system. The rest of the hardware I know my way around. Phelonious Ponk expressed exactly what I am concerned about. I know I don't care for high-end setups due to the hefty price tag, which I can't see as justified. I'd like hardware that doesn't distracts from the music experience and that's pretty much it. Well, I use a pair fo AKG K530. I find they sound in a friend's hi-fi system (not as good as his K501, but good nonetheless) and, quite frankly, I don't find a reason to trade up. Or is there something I am blatantly ignoring? I am really considering going that route. Well, maybe forget about the 10'' sub, but the general principle stands. It's reassuring to know that you're happy with your setup. Do you also use headphones connected to the uDAC? Any other brands you'd like to recommend? Or even models. Oh, maybe I should point out that I'm across the pond. Availability differs greatly in some cases. I'd like to try to go 2.0 before thinking about adding a sub. It does annoy me when the bass sounds muddled or not at all, so I might end up having to shell out for one. I did, however, play a few gigs with a surprisingly deep 2x8'' cab, which restored my faith in good sound and small packages . And thanks for your replies.

Lots of good stuff on the Eastern edge of the pond. Got a budget?

P

 

[setekh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't get the M-Audio AV40 speakers. Get the BX5a's instead. I've tried both and the BX5a's sound much much better.

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterlogic /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your final aim is not a desktop speaker audio system, but a solid room audio system do not waste your money on mediocre desktop speakers, buy a Dac & hp amp combo (uDAC is meant for mobile use - you can go with that but do not expect musical nirvana) and a pair of solid HP (100-150 $) that are not picky about amplification. I am saying this, for I believe the most important part of a good audio system are the speakers . Save money for good speakers, amp and the rest is secondary IMO. Your target speakers IMO should define the amplification to make up a good sounding system. So in the meantime save your money and audition as many speakers as you can and do not save for ridiculously expensive cabling of any kind (audio, digital, etc) they do not make any difference . Good Luck !

I'm not too familiar with the jargon around these parts, but I assume HP = headphones, right? I can appreciate that I would get more for my money if I was to focus on a headphone setup alone, but I have people over often, which makes that quite unpractical.

Well, I don't expect musical nirvana with the uDAC. Or any other component, for that matter. Still, if I was to get a DAC + headphone amp that wasn't built with mobility in mind, would I have to spend a lot more than what the uDAC costs and would there be noticeable improvements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ypoknons /img/forum/go_quote.gif My nuForce Icon => Minipod setup is a fun, easy to listen to setup. Needs more bass though, a subwoofer could really help.

I didn't know the minipod speakers, so I had to do a little research. They do look a bit unorthodox, which I find refreshing. The price, however, isn't really encouragingl - I see them at about £350 at amazon and a bit cheaper in some stores I don't really know. I think I might have to pass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lots of good stuff on the Eastern edge of the pond. Got a budget? P

That's good to know. Well, I haven't really given budget a lot of thought, to be honest, but ideally I would be looking to keep the whole thing under €300. Is that doable?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frequen C /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basically, you get what you pay for. If I was in your situation I would invest in a good pair of headphones and save up for a higher-quality speaker system.

Oh, no. Sounds like the marketers have gotten to you.

If you want the inside scoop on hi-fi, start building your own gear. Once you understand what goes on inside the box, you'll have a revelation as to the glorious amounts of horsepoop there is in this hobby.

The feces is relatively low in the entry level, but increases exponentially a the higher end. Most of the "high end" stuff is a few hundred in parts with a kilobuck price tag, fancy logo and a healthy marketing campaign.

Of course, you won't know the difference unless you've read up on building stuff and priced out and bought the components. When you spend $400 on parts and then see more or less the same thing being touted as the be-all-end-all (until the next version comes out, of course, and then it becomes woefully inadequate compared to the new version. Lather, rinse, repeat.) you know that this hobby/industry just keeps recycling itself and is a lot more about fashion than anything else. Aside from music servers, there hasn't been anything genuinely new for a couple of decades.

Also, you'll notice that hi-fi is *not* marketed to tinkerers and DIY folks. The reason is because they know that anyone with a passing knowledge of building gear will see right through the glossy marketing and start asking hard questions about why they should pay $5,000 for some tubes on a PCB they can price out for under $200.

Now, the price of a decent setup can be around $100-$150.

Get a vintage receiver for cheap or free. They're often very good and were expensive and well built back in the day.

Next, get a pair of Fostex singledrivers ($60-$150 per pair) and a $20 sheet of MDF, then put in a little effort to build a pair of Voigt Pipes. They're wonderful - look at the Cain & Cain Abby for a nicely finished commercial version. You can have the same for far, far less.

The same goes for any other component in the chain. Build it yourself for a huge discount. You can also get good deals on used equipment, and there's no reason not to.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

That's good to know. Well, I haven't really given budget a lot of thought, to be honest, but ideally I would be looking to keep the whole thing under €300. Is that doable?

Sure. For that budget the M-Audios, where you started, are a good choice. If you can hold out until you save a bit more, the Yamaha HS50Ms will get you a true active design (separate amps for each driver, active crossovers before amplification = much better driver control, lower distortion, higher resolution), bigger bass drivers, more power and much better build quality for just another $60 each. Not sure you'll do much better than the Udac for $100.

P

 

[ayz]

buy cheap, buy twice.

you're better off getting a uDAC or another DAC/Headphone amp and some good headphones, then wait until you have the money for better speakers

or since you're buying a PC you can find a way to shave $100 off your PC build and get a better set of speakers

The M-Audio AV40 or the Audioengine A2's aren't bad speakers but the second you see/hear something else you're gonna want to trade up.