[idunno]

[size=10.0pt]Everyone is always raving about the latest and greatest, there are all sorts of shootouts, comparisons, and debates… but it seems to be pretty tough to tell how much the technology quality and value has improved over time. In other words, does equal money spent now vs. four years ago get you the same quality, better, or worse?[/size]
 
[size=10.0pt]I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth investing in new gear at this point. I bought two Audio-GD Compass DAC/Amp combos when they came out four years ago, and have been using them at work and home. Now I just started a new job where the Compass is just too big/clunky to have on my desk. So I’m back to using my circa 2007 iBasso D1 for the time being, and trying to figure out if an upgrade would be worthwhile.[/size]
 
[size=10.0pt]Can spending $200-300 for a small desktop or “transportable” dac/amp combo from the current generation yield a substantial upgrade over the D1? Over the Compass?[/size]
 
[size=10.0pt]Thanks for your help.[/size]
 
[size=10.0pt]UPDATE 4/25/2013: renamed thread to focus on value. Seems that in terms of the absolute technology, analog is fairly stable, but the digital side continues to improve. But the big question is the cost of the technology: has analog come down in price, despite limited technological improvement? Have the advances in digital technology improved the value, or simply raised prices?[/size]
 
[size=10.0pt]Note: this thread isn't meant to be about fixing what isn't broken. It's about figuring out how much needs to be spent to upgrade older devices when you want something better.[/size]

 

[Dubstep Girl]

i question the same thing with my PS Audio DL III, its getting old now...

 

[idunno]

Surely some of the Head-Fi gurus have held onto older gear, and can compare to newer stuff?

 

[kramer5150]

Been wondering the same thing about my discrete buffer, 627-627-627 larocco PPA.  It was in the 200-300 range (used)  ~7-8 years ago.  larocco took some HF-ers money on a pre-order and essentially scammed people out of their cash a few years ago and was rightfully disowned by the HF population. ( memory is fading though so at least thats my recollection).
 
Most of the old timers have moved on though.

 

[joshkim12]

Yeah I'd like to know this as well.  Can the technology change that much?  How often should we upgrade our equipment?!?
haha I'm sure a lot of other budget conscious head-fiers would like to know this.

 

[meat01]

I think the biggest improvements in audio tech seem to be in the portable realm of smaller packaging and battery efficiency.  With the exception of Class D, I don't believe there are any huge break throughs in the last 20 years on amplifier designs.  Most of the designs are just a tweak of tried and true designs.  I am not even sure how old class D technology is.
 
Although stand alone DACs are still expensive, because people will pay the price, portable DACs have become smaller and cheaper while still being high quality.
 

 

[kirdie]

I can't answer this question specifically for headphone gear but this strange feeling "I need something new to buy" or "I have this [X] for several years that's not normal" is in my opinion over the decades instilled into us by companies who don't want us to be happy with something and keep it because then they would go out of business. Hundred years ago people had a few clothes and kept them, now everyone has to buy a new jackets and boots and everything all the time. IHMO people should buy something good and keep it for as long as it doesnt totally break. Sorry for the slightly offtopic

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

I can't answer this question specifically for headphone gear but this strange feeling "I need something new to buy" or "I have this [X] for several years that's not normal" is in my opinion over the decades instilled into us by companies who don't want us to be happy with something and keep it because then they would go out of business. Hundred years ago people had a few clothes and kept them, now everyone has to buy a new jackets and boots and everything all the time. IHMO people should buy something good and keep it for as long as it doesnt totally break. Sorry for the slightly offtopic

"want what you have.. dont have what you want."

 

[idunno]

Quote:

I can't answer this question specifically for headphone gear but this strange feeling "I need something new to buy" or "I have this [X] for several years that's not normal" is in my opinion over the decades instilled into us by companies who don't want us to be happy with something and keep it because then they would go out of business. Hundred years ago people had a few clothes and kept them, now everyone has to buy a new jackets and boots and everything all the time. IHMO people should buy something good and keep it for as long as it doesnt totally break. Sorry for the slightly offtopic

Agreed, we are culturally programmed to continually want something different/new/better. I refer to it as Disposable Society. But that's not the only reason to upgrade.
 
For example, I chose to upgrade from the D1 to the Compass for improved sound quality. The D1 was a great intro to the audio world for me, but using it as I learned to listen critically showed me its own flaws. Now I was starting to think I'd outgrown the Compass, but find myself forced into using the D1 again.
 
 

I think the biggest improvements in audio tech seem to be in the portable realm of smaller packaging and battery efficiency.  With the exception of Class D, I don't believe there are any huge break throughs in the last 20 years on amplifier designs.  Most of the designs are just a tweak of tried and true designs.  I am not even sure how old class D technology is.
 
Although stand alone DACs are still expensive, because people will pay the price, portable DACs have become smaller and cheaper while still being high quality.
 

 
OK so you think it's only the digital portion that's continually improving, that the analog/amp portion is fairly stable? Still, since I'm looking at DAC/Amp combos, I wonder if there has been improvement in performance per dollar.
 
Some folks also talk about new circuit designs for the solid state amps, designers out there who are coaxing higher quality sound out of cheaper parts. Is that just hype?
 
I'm primarily interested in this relative to my specific equipment, but it seems like there's general interest in the topic, so it would be worth hearing from anyone who can compare different generations of gear.

 

[Utopia]

Two products where recent development in audio technology show are the Meridian Explorer DAC and the DragonFly DAC. Those products probably wouldn't have been possible just a few years ago. And they could be good products to take to work (I haven't heard them, unfortunately, but they are popular).

 

[DefQon]

Just because something is old doesn't mean it isn't good anymore. Heck my Lambda Pro's from almost 30 years ago are superior to a large 80% of the headphones on the market, what did I pay for them? < $400 with an adapter, how much did it cost back in 78? Close to $2k. If it sounds good then it is good. Don't replace it unless it's broken.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

I think the biggest improvements in audio tech seem to be in the portable realm of smaller packaging and battery efficiency.  With the exception of Class D, I don't believe there are any huge break throughs in the last 20 years on amplifier designs.  Most of the designs are just a tweak of tried and true designs.  I am not even sure how old class D technology is.
 

 
Class D operation dates back to the 1950's. The only advances that have been made since then have been toward getting them to perform as well as conventional linear amplifiers (i.e. A, B, A/B) being that their only advantage is efficiency.
 
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[vid]

I have the Auzen Bravura headphone amp/sound card that cost about $150. It's said that it's an improvement over the Essence STX. On the other hand, my mid-'80s lower mid-level Technics SU-300 integrated amp - that has wrongfully been accused of BPC-ism - sounds about the same as the Bravura if a bit better.
 
So no great improvement there, soundwise, in about two decades in this semi-budget price range. (Mind you this opinion is based on running mostly 600-ohm phones and some orthos.)

 

[3X0]

This is probably better for sound science, but I personally can't tell the difference between my current DAC/headphone amp and pretty much any DAC or headphone amp on the market that has low output impedance, measures flat without audible distortion and gets things loud enough. There are more
 
I can sure tell the difference between headphones though, and since no one agrees on how transducers (speakers or headphones) should measure or what they should sound like it's impossible to arrive at what would be a unanimously ideal response.
 
Subjectively I do consider a few headphones to be technological milestones over the years -- HD 580 for dynamics, UE10s and JH13s for IEMs/balanced armatures, and several recent orthodynamics.

 

[kramer5150]

I think discrete op amps are a relatively new thing as commercial products. (I think)