[chesebert]

If you're looking to objectively compare DAC quality, whether or not humans can hear modern DAC differences, I'd suggest not using a tube amplifier to test with. Tube amps usually roll off the high frequencies, and their sound varies depending on what tube you have. I don't understand why people would want this (other than looking really cool), but some like it. I'm not sure if this is only for tube amps or if it applies to solid state / tube hybrids as well. I know the Alex Cavalli hybrid amp both rolls off high frequencies as well as reduces the sharpness of high end frequencies, aka distorts the audio and loses quality. Again I don't know why people would want this, but it's par for the course with tube amps. In search for an objective DAC comparison, I'd suggest a solid state amplifier that doesn't roll off frequencies (aka all solid state amps) and doesn't have variable output depending on the tube used.

people generally buy gear to make their music sound good and not choose music to make their amp sound good

 

[chesebert]

So I been doing more research and basically led to more questions than answers... My goal ultimately is to improve the sound quality of my headphones and something I came across was using speaker amps for the Susvaras. I am currently driving it with my Manley Absolute tube amp and it sounds great but I don't know if it's driving it to its full potential, 90%, 75%, or less? I keep seeing Bakoon amp-13r being mentioned in multiple places for its great synergy with the Susvara. So now my question is, do you guys think getting a Bakoon will improve sound more than getting a DAC (TT2/DAVE, Wavedream, etc..) ? I can't afford to do both at the same time.

What don’t you like about your setup? Have you been in the zone (gear disappeared and you are in the music) at least once in the last five listening sessions?

 

[rangerid]

What don’t you like about your setup? Have you been in the zone (gear disappeared and you are in the music) at least once in the last five listening sessions?

All the time. There isn't anything I don't like, rather areas I'd like to improve upon. I have the Stellia and Susvara at the moment and really enjoy listening to both of them but going back and forth makes me miss certain aspects of the other headphone. On the Stellia I miss the openess/spaciousness and detail level of the Susvara and on the Susvara I miss the bass impact/dynamics and, I don't even know the word, "euphanism?" of the Stellia. On the tube amp the tonality is just perfect to my ears. I've yet to hear a better headphone for techno and synthwave on Stellia but Susvara is better for EDM/Trance and Pop. However, I spent 80% of the time listening to Techno and synthwave so.... I guess my "perfect" headphone would be a combination of Stellia and Susvara. So basically I want to improve upon the stage/detail of Stellia and I guess dynamics/bass impact on the Susvara then both of those would be perfect. I am a bass head so I already EQ on the Susvara's bass like crazy, I got the Baxandall EQ on Manley amp turned up like 80% but it still doesn't quite have that slam quality, it's very close tho.

I've considered trying the 1266 because from impressions they seem to have the bass/soundstage I am looking for but the opposite presentation. I like a smooth, easy going and laid back listening where I can "look forward" into the music rather than it shoved down my throat.

 

[chesebert]

Have you audition Audeze and Grado PS1 and the Sony r10 on high current solid state amp? To improve your current rig for bass response, move to high current mosfet based solid state.

 

[rangerid]

Auditioned Audeze 2 & 4 yes. LOVED the bass but treble sounded off, it's like there's a ton of air but felt hollow at the same time. Also I swear that thing weighs almost twice as much as my current headphones. I am prone to neck pains and tension headaches that follows and I currently listen to headphone 8-10+ hours a day WFH so I really didn't see myself owning any of those for long listening sessions. Grado, no, never considered and will not get on design alone, not a fan of on ear type headphones at all, like make them over ear or I'd get IEMs not some weird in between. R10 are out of productions no? I've seen them in FS section for like 10k+ which is ridiculous for something without replaceable cables, which all inevitably fail on me and need replacement.

I am strongly considering getting the Bakoon 13R which is a current driven amp. What amps do you recommend?

 

[chesebert]

Current feedback generally sounds more transparent with slight dryness in the treble compared to voltage feedback designs. However not all amps of a same general topology sound the same so you would need to try yourself. I have not been keeping up with all the new stuff lately so I wouldn’t be able to recommend anything specifically. In terms of the old stuff, if you can find a well built susy dynahi I would give that a go.

 

[chesebert]

On the dac, skip usb and either go spdif with 75ohm BNC or take the easy road and go Ethernet. Set your budget to 10k and you can generally find a unit that will sound great to you. For max bass and PrAT goodness, start with naim and Ayre.

 

[iamoneagain]

All the time. There isn't anything I don't like, rather areas I'd like to improve upon. I have the Stellia and Susvara at the moment and really enjoy listening to both of them but going back and forth makes me miss certain aspects of the other headphone. On the Stellia I miss the openess/spaciousness and detail level of the Susvara and on the Susvara I miss the bass impact/dynamics and, I don't even know the word, "euphanism?" of the Stellia. On the tube amp the tonality is just perfect to my ears. I've yet to hear a better headphone for techno and synthwave on Stellia but Susvara is better for EDM/Trance and Pop. However, I spent 80% of the time listening to Techno and synthwave so.... I guess my "perfect" headphone would be a combination of Stellia and Susvara. So basically I want to improve upon the stage/detail of Stellia and I guess dynamics/bass impact on the Susvara then both of those would be perfect. I am a bass head so I already EQ on the Susvara's bass like crazy, I got the Baxandall EQ on Manley amp turned up like 80% but it still doesn't quite have that slam quality, it's very close tho.

I've considered trying the 1266 because from impressions they seem to have the bass/soundstage I am looking for but the opposite presentation. I like a smooth, easy going and laid back listening where I can "look forward" into the music rather than it shoved down my throat.

What the Utopia’s? Shouldn’t that give you the openness of the Stellia and little more detail. But haven’t heard the Stellia but the Utopia’s with the Danacable gives me everything I’m looking for.

I used to own the Grado PS-1 and that was perfect at the time but then needed closed headphones and got the L3000. Had those for 12 years until sold last year for the Utopia since I could go back to open headphones. Thought about finding PS-1 again but hated the fit. Grado bowl pads hurt my ears after an hour or two.

 

[rangerid]

On the dac, skip usb and either go spdif with 75ohm BNC or take the easy road and go Ethernet. Set your budget to 10k and you can generally find a unit that will sound great to you. For max bass and PrAT goodness, start with naim and Ayre.

That's the general price range I am looking at right now. There's just so much to look at and research. Like 2 months ago I was listening to music on Youtube through my laptop with ancient IEMs... I will add Naim and Arye onto my list.

 

[rangerid]

What the Utopia’s? Shouldn’t that give you the openness of the Stellia and little more detail. But haven’t heard the Stellia but the Utopia’s with the Danacable gives me everything I’m looking for.

I used to own the Grado PS-1 and that was perfect at the time but then needed closed headphones and got the L3000. Had those for 12 years until sold last year for the Utopia since I could go back to open headphones. Thought about finding PS-1 again but hated the fit. Grado bowl pads hurt my ears after an hour or two.

I tried the Utopia and they weren't for me at all. Yes they sounded more "open" and "airy" than the Stellia but the overall stage size/space is like smaller than the Stellia. The images are definitely smaller on them even if they are a bit more precise. Coming from a bass head that thing has like no bass lol, reminded me of the old Etymotics IEMs, very good quality but all the EQ in the world isn't going to fix the quantity.

Regarding cables, I am kind of in a disillusioned phase atm..... https://www.head-fi.org/threads/confessions-of-a-cable-holic.952581/

That's me experience with on ears, long time back I had some on ear Beats and after an hour or so it always started making my ears feel hot and itchy.

 

[iamoneagain]

I tried the Utopia and they weren't for me at all. Yes they sounded more "open" and "airy" than the Stellia but the overall stage size/space is like smaller than the Stellia. The images are definitely smaller on them even if they are a bit more precise. Coming from a bass head that thing has like no bass lol, reminded me of the old Etymotics IEMs, very good quality but all the EQ in the world isn't going to fix the quantity.

Regarding cables, I am kind of in a disillusioned phase atm..... https://www.head-fi.org/threads/confessions-of-a-cable-holic.952581/

That's me experience with on ears, long time back I had some on ear Beats and after an hour or so it always started making my ears feel hot and itchy.

Well the L3000 were probably the best bass headphone at least at the time and I’m quite happy with bass on the Utopia’s coming out of the Arche even with stock cable. Plenty of weight and slam.

Think you’re right about the Utopia’s sounding like etymotics when I heard them out of the Hugo 2. At first you’re blown away by the detail but then realized it’s not a balanced sound. Missing the warmth.

So I wouldn’t discount the Utopia’s, it’s just probably more system dependent.

 

[chesebert]

That's the general price range I am looking at right now. There's just so much to look at and research. Like 2 months ago I was listening to music on Youtube through my laptop with ancient IEMs... I will add Naim and Arye onto my list.

Try not to let FOMO and neurotic energy of this place get to you. Trust what you like, buy what sounds good to you and visit this place once a year or so like what I am doing

For your use case, I would actually ditch headphones and go straight to speakers. Lack of scale and real soundstage (not the tiny soundstage in and around you) are the biggest shortcomings of headphones.

 

[BassicScience]

Auditioned Audeze 2 & 4 yes. LOVED the bass but treble sounded off, it's like there's a ton of air but felt hollow at the same time. Also I swear that thing weighs almost twice as much as my current headphones. I am prone to neck pains and tension headaches that follows and I currently listen to headphone 8-10+ hours a day WFH so I really didn't see myself owning any of those for long listening sessions. Grado, no, never considered and will not get on design alone, not a fan of on ear type headphones at all, like make them over ear or I'd get IEMs not some weird in between. R10 are out of productions no? I've seen them in FS section for like 10k+ which is ridiculous for something without replaceable cables, which all inevitably fail on me and need replacement.

I am strongly considering getting the Bakoon 13R which is a current driven amp. What amps do you recommend?

You might want to check out amps based on Hypex Class D technology. Powerful, tight bass with the fluidity and nuance of tubes. The current state-of-the-art, in my opinion.

 

[chesebert]

Class D for headphone? You need like 2watts max not 200

 

[rangerid]

Well the L3000 were probably the best bass headphone at least at the time and I’m quite happy with bass on the Utopia’s coming out of the Arche even with stock cable. Plenty of weight and slam.

Think you’re right about the Utopia’s sounding like etymotics when I heard them out of the Hugo 2. At first you’re blown away by the detail but then realized it’s not a balanced sound. Missing the warmth.

So I wouldn’t discount the Utopia’s, it’s just probably more system dependent.

It could very well be a synergy thing. I never actually heard the Arche before, the dealer didn't have one at the time. I'd like to try that with the Utopia and Stellia since they are technically built specifically for those headphones. But generally speaking there's more that I didn't like about the Utopia than I did like, especially when compared directly with other flagships including the Susvaras, which I think did everything the Utopia did and then some more.

Try not to let FOMO and neurotic energy of this place get to you. Trust what you like, buy what sounds good to you and visit this place once a year or so like what I am doing

For your use case, I would actually ditch headphones and go straight to speakers. Lack of scale and real soundstage (not the tiny soundstage in and around you) are the biggest shortcomings of headphones.

Haha I will try not to. I actually just returned to head fi first time last november after a 7 year hiatus. Back then the LCD2 and og HD800 were summit fi... I definitely did not keep up with this hobby at the time.

I have a speaker set up at the moment but I find myself to be more a headphone person as to not to disturb those around me with my obnoxious bass heavy techno and the ADHD behaviour of changing songs every 10 seconds when I am searching for new tracks. I did not have the optimal positioning for them but I honestly CBA with room acoustic and all that jazz. Headphones are just so much more convenient at this moment but who knows... nothing's off the table.

I've definitely enjoyed all my purchases and don't regret any of them, except maybe the fancy cables but I won't get into that again....