[domino584]

Balanced is more about noise reduction than anything else. You can probably not tell the difference from a portable device but like @Arghavan said the balanced outputs are usually rated somewhat higher output level.

What about stereo cross talk? I hear having independent amplifiers for each channel virtually eliminate cross talk?

 

[PhonoPhi]

In theory, two transparent (a magic word of the science forum) amplifiers or signal paths should not be distinguishable.
That is when the S/N, cross talk, distortions, etc. are below the audible threshold, no difference can be perceived. It is (or can be) the case in several unbalanced vs. balanced scenarios.

In real life, there can be different situations. It may (strictly hypothetically, of course) happen that some advanced manufacturers manipulate higher harmonics for more pleasant sound (a la lamps).

Or, more realistically, balanced and unbalanced can be entirely different signal path. A notable case in hand is Fiio Q1 II, where the balanced path is much more powerful/capable and is drastically different from unbalanced (a good way to hook consumers to "balanced", worked for me...)

Then in many DAP/DAC designs, a balanced path is handled by two chips vs. one for unbalanced. Two is more than one (a simple consumer arithmetic). Also the two-chip design enables two modes: either (more common) twice higher voltage or lower S/N (so called ACG, common ground) mode. This continues to hook me into "balanced". With balanced cables of all the colours (2.5 in my case) and 2.5 to 3.5 connectors, I can use any audio orifice in my disposal and enjoy the music in all its sonic beauty

 

[mthaynes]

I have found AK products to be very sensitive to cable choice. Just my experience. I have found AK's seem to like thin and short cables. this applied to either balanced or unbalanced from my experience. If your budget can support it, you may want to try some different cables.

don't know if anyone else has noticed this with AK's

 

[bythebookiii]

In theory, two transparent (a magic word of the science forum) amplifiers or signal paths should not be distinguishable.
That is when the S/N, cross talk, distortions, etc. are below the audible threshold, no difference can be perceived. It is (or can be) the case in several unbalanced vs. balanced scenarios.

In real life, there can be different situations. It may (strictly hypothetically, of course) happen that some advanced manufacturers manipulate higher harmonics for more pleasant sound (a la lamps).

Or, more realistically, balanced and unbalanced can be entirely different signal path. A notable case in hand is Fiio Q1 II, where the balanced path is much more powerful/capable and is drastically different from unbalanced (a good way to hook consumers to "balanced", worked for me...)

Then in many DAP/DAC designs, a balanced path is handled by two chips vs. one for unbalanced. Two is more than one (a simple consumer arithmetic). Also the two-chip design enables two modes: either (more common) twice higher voltage or lower S/N (so called ACG, common ground) mode. This continues to hook me into "balanced". With balanced cables of all the colours (2.5 in my case) and 2.5 to 3.5 connectors, I can use any audio orifice in my disposal and enjoy the music in all its sonic beauty

Hi, do you think the Fiio Q1 II case applies to a Hiby R6 pro? I don't want to waste more money on replacement cables such as Sukira or Earmax in order to use a 4.4mm jack with a Senns T5p 2nd which comes only with a 3.5mm jack, . Any recommendations? Should I keep the stock cable or try the 4.4mm?

 

[PhonoPhi]

Hi, do you think the Fiio Q1 II case applies to a Hiby R6 pro? I don't want to waste more money on replacement cables such as Sukira or Earmax in order to use a 4.4mm jack with a Senns T5p 2nd which comes only with a 3.5mm jack, . Any recommendations? Should I keep the stock cable or try the 4.4mm?

I did not understand a part of the question about Q1 II and R6 pro, sorry.

For 2.5 balanced cables adaptors are readily available for 4.4 balanced, 3.5 non-balanced and even 3.5 balanced (if you ever need one, this type is less common).
4.4 to 2.5 adapters make less sense to me just by the size, as well as 4.4 overall (to my personal tastes).

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

how much better does balanced sound vs unbalanced? for instance a Astel&Kern Ak100II with a Cayin C5 with Lcd-XC will balanced sound alot better or just a little or what?

There is a couple things you have to understand, it's not as simple as balanced or unbalanced. Each dap has a different circuit topology. For example in AK100ii the unbalanced circuit is purposefully lower quality than the balanced as AK wants to sell you their balanced accessories. While in a dap that have equally prioritized balanced and unbalanced the main difference will be power output. It is very easy for a company to prioritize one output over the other by using better components like different opamps or capacitors.

All things being equal single ended can sound more rounded while balanced has greater separation.

 

[Sanjay Jos]

Can a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm unbalanced converter, provide better quality than using the 3.5mm port from the dac-amp?

Link of the converter is here : https://www.amazon.in/Sukira-Balanced-Connection-Adapter-XDP-300R/dp/B075CJ95V2

PS: I don't have 2.5mm balanced cables. FiiO BTR5 is my dac-amp connected to LCD 2 Classic

 

[gimmeheadroom]

There is no difference in sound quality between balanced and unbalanced except for a theoretical reduction in electrical noise.

If the amp doesn't have enough power to drive heaphones properly single-ended then using the amp in balanced mode can help, if it has it.

 

[megabigeye]

Can a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm unbalanced converter, provide better quality than using the 3.5mm port from the dac-amp?

Link of the converter is here : https://www.amazon.in/Sukira-Balanced-Connection-Adapter-XDP-300R/dp/B075CJ95V2

PS: I don't have 2.5mm balanced cables. FiiO BTR5 is my dac-amp connected to LCD 2 Classic

Do NOT use that adapter or any like it, as it could cause a short within the amp/DAC/DAP*.

It is safe to use a single-ended socket with a balanced plug, it is NOT safe to use a balanced socket with a single-ended plug.


*I believe the BTR5 actually has some built in short circuit protection, but I wouldn't push it. At best it'll cause the battery to drain really quickly and the device would probably get pretty hot, potentially damaging the circuit. At worst the protection could fail and you'd destroy the BTR5.

 

[megabigeye]

There is no difference in sound quality between balanced and unbalanced except for a theoretical reduction in electrical noise.

If the amp doesn't have enough power to drive heaphones properly single-ended then using the amp in balanced mode can help, if it has it.

Ideally this would be true, but it's not necessarily. Some manufacturers intentionally cripple the single-ended output so that the balanced output sounds better by comparison. The BTR5 is one of those devices.
Here's a small rant I went on a few weeks ago:

I consider myself the opposite of a balanced devotee. I find it incredibly irritating that manufacturers essentially cripple the single-ended output of their devices so that the balanced sounds better by comparison, forcing users to buy (generally overpriced) cables and adapters that they wouldn't otherwise need.

My reasoning is this:
1) there's nothing inherent to a balanced circuit/connection that makes it sound better than single-ended;
2) on a device with both a balanced and a single-ended output, either:
2a) both outputs sound the same, or:
2b) one of the outputs sounds better than the other;
3) given 1):
if 2a) is true, there's no reason to use balanced because the single-ended sounds just as good,
if 2b) is true, then it's a deliberate design decision to make one (generally single-ended) sound worse than the other;
4) there's some other reason manufacturers design this way, my guess is that it's to pander to audiophiles that don't know any better.

I feel my blood pressure go up any time I even look at my FiiO BTR5. I feel like that company thinks I'm an idiot.
I would love it if somebody pointed to some horrible error in my thinking so that I can stop feeling so irritated by it.

I think it's an important distinction that single-ended sometimes is made to sound worse, not that balanced sometimes is made to sound better.

 

[lantian]

The biggest dofference would be crosstalk is non existant and interchannel distortion is also pretty much gone. Each channel is trully independent of the other. Extra power is a nice feature aswell. Pretty sure balanced signal moves the transducer more efficiently aswell.

 

[feverfive]

As a few astute observers noted above, depending upon the device, it most definitely can make a difference as it is possible that the SE output is treated as an afterthought whilst the balanced output(s) is engineered/fabricated with higher-end parts.

My rule of thumb (hasn't always been, to be sure): if a device I own has both balanced and SE outputs, I will utilize the balanced to remove that variable as a potential cause of dissatisfaction with the device. It's like why I opt to use only lossless (in my case, ALAC as a Mac user) music files, even though I really can't tell the difference between 320kbps LAME and ALAC. I just want to remove that variable from the equation.

 

[purplesun]

Do NOT use that adapter or any like it, as it could cause a short within the amp/DAC/DAP*.
It is safe to use a single-ended socket with a balanced plug, it is NOT safe to use a balanced socket with a single-ended plug.

Yes, it's worth repeating.
Unbalanced output connections: Left, right & common ground.
Balanced output connections: Left+, left-, right+ & right-
Left- & right- CANNOT be electrically shorted to form a common ground.

 

[originalsnuffy]

I have one unit that has separate circuits for balanced vs single end (Cayin N5II). Seems like overkill to me but that is how they did it.

I know that in theory there is less crosstalk and noise with balanced. But I think I primarily hear an improvement in "headroom" due to the extra power when going balanced.

 

[smallcaps]

Balanced usually provides more power with less feedback noise and theoretically increased distortion. In application, I think you'd be hard-pressed to hear a difference if properly volume matched.