How I Went from 'Disappointed with HD600' to 'HD600-liciously Happy!' 🎶

[UntilThen]

You might want to change the initial thread title...

LOL - or change it to 'I'm disappointed that I am disappointed with HD600'.

 

[jonathan c]

Yeah, it sounds to me like you're in the market for an all-arounder, master of none headphone.

If bothering your wife is a concern, then perhaps you'd be best off getting a closed back for your wife. Keep the HD600 !!

FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021.]

 

[UntilThen]

Amazing after 7 pages, we have a title change and all is well with HD600. If only things were this easy on the Susvara thread.

 

[jonathan c]

• While a medium or high output impedance OTL tube headphone amplifier can be (is) optimal for the 300-ohm Sennheiser HD-600, there is a solid-state headphone amplifier that can deliver real musical joy with Sennheiser HD-600, should you prefer:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-600-impressions-thread.538255/post-17746394

 

[jonathan c]

Amazing after 7 pages, we have a title change and all is well with HD600. If only things were this easy on the Susvara thread.

Or with DarkVoice !!

 

[UntilThen]

• While a medium or high output impedance OTL tube headphone amplifier can be (is) optimal for the 300-ohm Sennheiser HD-600, there is a solid-state headphone amplifier that can deliver real musical joy with Sennheiser HD-600, should you prefer:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-600-impressions-thread.538255/post-17746394

That is a myth.

Or with DarkVoice !!

Darkvoice needs more than a change of title. Needs a make over.

 

[jonathan c]

That is a myth.

… I must have ‘mythed’ something … CC / self modded HD-600 driven by Beyerdynamic A20 is captivating … a nice ‘relief pitcher’ to Woo WA3 …

 

[dbmathis]

The Woo WA3 and DarkVoice certainly capture my interest. As someone new to headphone amps, I've heard that pairing a tube amp with headphones like the HD600 can produce a warmer, smoother audio experience with enhanced imaging and soundstage. That's precisely what I'm seeking. Now I'm leaning towards getting a DarkVoice after seeing how nice it looks. Will it be sufficient to connect it directly to my MacBook Pro, or should I also consider pairing it with a recommended DAC?

 

[earmonger]

If it's a recent MacBook Pro, its built-in DAC has a very good reputation. See if the amp itself makes a significant difference first.

 

[dbmathis]

If it's a recent MacBook Pro, its built-in DAC has a very good reputation. See if the amp itself makes a significant difference first.

It’s a 2019 model.

 

[earmonger]

It’s a 2019 model.

Again, try and see. Apple has cared about sound quality for some time. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/apple-macbook-pro-16

Also I have to say: warmer = less detail. This is something headphone and IEM makers have to decide in their designs. Bass and low midrange are warmth. Treble is detail. Cranked up treble is annoying and fatiguing. Muffled treble is a cheat. You just have to decide what sounds good to you.

 

[BrokeAudiophileMan]

In 2018, my company gifted me a PC360 Headset. I was consistently impressed with the sound quality when using it with my Apple MacBook and Mac Mini. I remember thinking, "Sennheiser's audio quality is unparalleled. If I ever get a high-end pair from them, I'll be overwhelmed with emotion."

Recently, my PC360s gave out, so I decided to upgrade to the HD600. I was eager to try them out, given my past experience. To my surprise, they didn't live up to my expectations. I record 32-bit, 48kHz audio during my outdoor walks, and with the PC360s, it was hard to differentiate between reality and the playback. Listening to live recordings felt like being present at the event; I could discern every minor detail, be it a sneeze or a cough. With the HD600s, however, the experience felt akin to using a low-quality headset from decades ago. Did I receive a counterfeit pair from Amazon?

Currently, I'm using them with a new MacBook Pro. Some sources suggest that an amplifier and DAC might optimize the performance, but others say a MacBook should suffice.

Considering my basic understanding of headphone technology, I'm left wondering: would I be better off returning the HD 600s? Or can I enhance their performance with the right amp/DAC? My main goal is to have headphones that faithfully reproduce my binaural recordings, and I'll occasionally use them for music listening.

Honestly, I'm quite let down. Does anyone have insights or suggestions?

Welcome to the headphone addiction.
HD600 needs moar powahh

You're running a 300 Ohm medium sensitivity headphone off a device that can BARELY handle a 32 Ohm high sensitivity headphone. Probably feeding 30mW>32Ohms off that Macbook and that's wildly optimistic. It could be half that. I run my HD600's off an amp that can output over 2000mW>32Ohms. I've tried running them off a smaller amp which can do about 200mW>32Ohms and the experience was laughable. I wouldn't even try plugging them into a PC or straight into a phone.

An analogy: Imagine if you put a little dinky 2 stroke moped motor on a big airplane. Sure, it's got power, but it's not going to move on the runway let alone get into the air. That's what you're doing. The HD600 needs big jet engines and you've strapped a 2 stroke from a moped to it. Not gonna work out.

If you want a one-and-done deal, go on Amazon and pick up a Fiio K7, and a Youkamoo 4.4mm balanced cable. Just look for "Youkamoo 4.4mm sennheiser HD600" on there. Total cost will be about $300 USD and worth every penny.

If you have SPDIF optical out from your PC, use that to feed the K7. If not, use USB. Macs have pretty quiet USB out noise wise so should be ok.

The difference will shock you with crap sources like spotify. WIth a good source like TIdal it'll amaze you, and if you pipe that Tidal through Rune (Rune is the **** but it's so expensive) you'll blow your mind.

As for the K7, maybe you don't want a Chinese DAC/amp (which is silly because the best entry level stuff is Chinese right now) and you want something fully made in the USA. Check out schiit (google them). You can mailorder directly from them. $200 will buy you a schiit modi and a schiit magni (Dac/Amp in seperate modules). You'll lose the balanced 4.4 out of the K7 and a smidge of power. Still a great setup. Do I like the K7 better? yes. A lot. You also have lots of other options like topping, ifi, etc. Just get the K7. Seriously. It's that good.

TLDR> Go amazon> buy Fiio K7, buy Youkamoo 4.4mm balanced cable for HD600> Be happy> Subscribe to TIDAL> Get Roon/Rune idk how to spell it but I've used it and its amazing.

Edit yet again: Actually I wanted to add that the HD600 doesn't lend itself to mobility. It wants a lot more power than anything mobile can pump out save for the most esoteric stuff like the Ifi DSD gryphon (which is $$$ and also massive and bulky). It's also open back so you annoy everyone around you and they annoy you. If you want a kick ass mobile setup that's still semi wireless pick up a Shanling UP5 ($120-140 USD) and a pair of Shure SRH840A ($140). Actually, that setup can give the HD600/K7 setup a serious run for it's money at 1/3 the price.

Fiio K7 Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Amplificador-auriculares-K7-PCM384kHz-entradas/dp/B0BJKKPL71/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_es_US=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2EXENMX7IRAJR&keywords=fiio+K7&qid=1696312149&sprefix=fiio+k7,aps,98&sr=8-1&th=1&language=en_US&currency=USD

Upgrade Cable Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Youkamoo-Balanced-Replacement-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B096LX46VL/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2N0AEHV48KLOZ&keywords=youkamoo+4.4mm+hd600&qid=1696312213&sprefix=youkamoo+4.4mm+hd600,aps,75&sr=8-4

Wow you Americans man... $230 out the door. Would be like $370 here in Canada. Buy the K7 in red because it's the new color and red=faster (it actually sounds the same as the black one but you can pretend its faster because its red)

 

[dbmathis]

Welcome to the headphone addiction.
HD600 needs moar powahh

You're running a 300 Ohm medium sensitivity headphone off a device that can BARELY handle a 32 Ohm high sensitivity headphone. Probably feeding 30mW>32Ohms off that Macbook and that's wildly optimistic. It could be half that. I run my HD600's off an amp that can output over 2000mW>32Ohms. I've tried running them off a smaller amp which can do about 200mW>32Ohms and the experience was laughable. I wouldn't even try plugging them into a PC or straight into a phone.

An analogy: Imagine if you put a little dinky 2 stroke moped motor on a big airplane. Sure, it's got power, but it's not going to move on the runway let alone get into the air. That's what you're doing. The HD600 needs big jet engines and you've strapped a 2 stroke from a moped to it. Not gonna work out.

If you want a one-and-done deal, go on Amazon and pick up a Fiio K7, and a Youkamoo 4.4mm balanced cable. Just look for "Youkamoo 4.4mm sennheiser HD600" on there. Total cost will be about $300 USD and worth every penny.

If you have SPDIF optical out from your PC, use that to feed the K7. If not, use USB. Macs have pretty quiet USB out noise wise so should be ok.

The difference will shock you with crap sources like spotify. WIth a good source like TIdal it'll amaze you, and if you pipe that Tidal through Rune (Rune is the **** but it's so expensive) you'll blow your mind.

As for the K7, maybe you don't want a Chinese DAC/amp (which is silly because the best entry level stuff is Chinese right now) and you want something fully made in the USA. Check out schiit (google them). You can mailorder directly from them. $200 will buy you a schiit modi and a schiit magni (Dac/Amp in seperate modules). You'll lose the balanced 4.4 out of the K7 and a smidge of power. Still a great setup. Do I like the K7 better? yes. A lot. You also have lots of other options like topping, ifi, etc. Just get the K7. Seriously. It's that good.

TLDR> Go amazon> buy Fiio K7, buy Youkamoo 4.4mm balanced cable for HD600> Be happy> Subscribe to TIDAL> Get Roon/Rune idk how to spell it but I've used it and its amazing.

Edit yet again: Actually I wanted to add that the HD600 doesn't lend itself to mobility. It wants a lot more power than anything mobile can pump out save for the most esoteric stuff like the Ifi DSD gryphon (which is $$$ and also massive and bulky). It's also open back so you annoy everyone around you and they annoy you. If you want a kick ass mobile setup that's still semi wireless pick up a Shanling UP5 ($120-140 USD) and a pair of Shure SRH840A ($140). Actually, that setup can give the HD600/K7 setup a serious run for it's money at 1/3 the price.

Fiio K7 Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Amplificador-auriculares-K7-PCM384kHz-entradas/dp/B0BJKKPL71/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_es_US=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2EXENMX7IRAJR&keywords=fiio+K7&qid=1696312149&sprefix=fiio+k7,aps,98&sr=8-1&th=1&language=en_US&currency=USD

Upgrade Cable Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Youkamoo-Balanced-Replacement-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B096LX46VL/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2N0AEHV48KLOZ&keywords=youkamoo+4.4mm+hd600&qid=1696312213&sprefix=youkamoo+4.4mm+hd600,aps,75&sr=8-4

Wow you Americans man... $230 out the door. Would be like $370 here in Canada. Buy the K7 in red because it's the new color and red=faster (it actually sounds the same as the black one but you can pretend its faster because its red)

Hey! Thanks for your input, but I think there may have been a slight misunderstanding. I wasn't suggesting driving the HD600 directly with a MacBook Pro. In fact, I've tried that before and the results weren't satisfactory.

Instead, I was illustrating a scenario where I paired the DarkVoice 336SE OTL with the Mac's in-built DAC. Currently, I'm using the iFi hip dac v2 for its portability after carefully weighing options against my specific needs and factoring in the law of diminishing returns within this class.

Technically speaking, the HD600's sensitivity of 97 SPL/mW means that for every milliwatt of power, it can produce a sound pressure level of 97dB. The iFi hip dac v2, with its balanced output, provides 6.3 volts at 600 ohms. When we consider Ohm's law (Power = Voltage^2 / Resistance), even with a conservative estimate, this voltage translates into significant power at 300 ohms. And, when used unbalanced (400mW at 32 ohms), the decrease in power at 300 ohms impedance is more than offset by the HD600's medium high sensitivity, leading to a pleasant and loud enough listening experience.

In my personal experience, even when I used the hip dac v2 unbalanced, it managed to drive the HD600 fine for my needs which is mainly to listen to my PCM recordings of nature – the sound was robust with good imaging and soundstage. As for music, I stream lossless from Apple Music, for example, I listened to Take Five - The Dave Brubeck Quartet, and it sounded magnificent to my ears. The Exploding Psychology - Squarepusher, was wowzers.

I’m also planning to buy the Chord Mojo 2 to use as a portable amp along side the iFi. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

The entire reason I brought up the DarkVoice was that I'm exploring options for a desktop solution and it was mentioned a few posts back.

It's just the beginning. The HD800S and HE1000 V2 headphones are on my list to try as well.

 

[BrokeAudiophileMan]

Hey! Thanks for your input, but I think there may have been a slight misunderstanding. I wasn't suggesting driving the HD600 directly with a MacBook Pro. In fact, I've tried that before and the results weren't satisfactory.

Instead, I was illustrating a scenario where I paired the DarkVoice 336SE OTL with the Mac's in-built DAC. Currently, I'm using the iFi hip dac v2 for its portability after carefully weighing options against my specific needs and factoring in the law of diminishing returns within this class.

Technically speaking, the HD600's sensitivity of 97 SPL/mW means that for every milliwatt of power, it can produce a sound pressure level of 97dB. The iFi hip dac v2, with its balanced output, provides 6.3 volts at 600 ohms. When we consider Ohm's law (Power = Voltage^2 / Resistance), even with a conservative estimate, this voltage translates into significant power at 300 ohms. And, when used unbalanced (400mW at 32 ohms), the decrease in power at 300 ohms impedance is more than offset by the HD600's medium high sensitivity, leading to a pleasant and loud enough listening experience.

In my personal experience, even when I used the hip dac v2 unbalanced, it managed to drive the HD600 fine for my needs which is mainly to listen to my PCM recordings of nature – the sound was robust with good imaging and soundstage. As for music, I stream lossless from Apple Music, for example, I listened to Take Five - The Dave Brubeck Quartet, and it sounded magnificent to my ears. The Exploding Psychology - Squarepusher, was wowzers.

I’m also planning to buy the Chord Mojo 2 to use as a portable amp along side the iFi. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

The entire reason I brought up the DarkVoice was that I'm exploring options for a desktop solution and it was mentioned a few posts back.

It's just the beginning. The HD800S and HE1000 V2 headphones are on my list to try as well.

"Technically speaking, the HD600's sensitivity of 97 SPL/mW means that for every milliwatt of power, it can produce a sound pressure level of 97dB. The iFi hip dac v2, with its balanced output, provides 6.3 volts at 600 ohms. When we consider Ohm's law (Power = Voltage^2 / Resistance), even with a conservative estimate, this voltage translates into significant power at 300 ohms. And, when used unbalanced (400mW at 32 ohms), the decrease in power at 300 ohms impedance is more than offset by the HD600's medium high sensitivity, leading to a pleasant and loud enough listening experience."

You lost me at 97SPL but thanks for coming out
Seriously though I'm not that much of a technical person but I am glad you are enjoying these great cans

 

[dbmathis]

"Technically speaking, the HD600's sensitivity of 97 SPL/mW means that for every milliwatt of power, it can produce a sound pressure level of 97dB. The iFi hip dac v2, with its balanced output, provides 6.3 volts at 600 ohms. When we consider Ohm's law (Power = Voltage^2 / Resistance), even with a conservative estimate, this voltage translates into significant power at 300 ohms. And, when used unbalanced (400mW at 32 ohms), the decrease in power at 300 ohms impedance is more than offset by the HD600's medium high sensitivity, leading to a pleasant and loud enough listening experience."

You lost me at 97SPL but thanks for coming out
Seriously though I'm not that much of a technical person but I am glad you are enjoying these great cans

I was lost last week (still am). I've been doing a "crash course" in headphones after my PC360s (a Sennheiser gaming headset) broke. I didn't realize what i was getting myself into when I started looking for a replacement set! Are you using the HD600?

Bought the Youkamoo 4.4mm balanced cable BTW. Curious to see what difference it makes.