[logwed]

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I know you are being sarcastic. If you have nothing nice to say or if you have nothing to contribute to this conversation don't say anything at all.
 
Also i didn't just watch that video and jump to that conclusion i did research and read many articles written by economists.

 
If you don't have a strong background (read: degree) in economics, you have no hope of understanding the underlying causes, and the mechanics of any road to recovery. A video like that obfuscates by oversimplification, since we're on an audio forum, like trying to explain that music sucks by giving them a 16kb/s file of Ke$ha. Reading articles online =/= being an expert. 
 
Obviously this doesn't preclude people from talking about how the economy has affected them, so here's my bit. I consider myself extremely lucky to be a college student at a time like this, if I were trying to enter the job market or were a new employee right now, I could easily be in deep trouble. Hopefully in 3-4 years the job market will be looking up, and I have faith that it will. My family is also in a pretty fortunate position, my father runs finances for a non-profit that works with the unemployed (a burgeoning demographic...), particularly the disabled and poverty-stricken. My mother works as a nurse, so both of them are in fairly secure industries in a recession, people always need jobs and healthcare. I'm the oldest of all my siblings, so we're all kind of riding the wave when it comes to this economic cycle, if the economy manages to turn around in several years, we'll all be in good shape.

 

[Happy Camper]

Bank barrons and swindlers (insurance) is raping the US economy. The largest % of individual financial failure is from healthcare cost. The best healthcare technology in the world but no market can afford it.

 

[appophylite]

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I spent 2 winters there. 
Anyplace where it's so cold you have to plug in your car's block heater every night, or else it won't start in the morning is no place humans were meant to live. 

 
Hey, now! North Dakota's not so bad!! 26 years old to date, and I've spent 22 of those years living in Alaska. You want cold, we got cold. Sometimes, it gets cold enough that plugging in the block heater isn't gonna help that car start up either! I've spent the last 4 years of that, working the Oilfield on the North Slope, and I'll tell you, the weather up there in the winter does everything in it's power to make sure that your car will not start up in the morning. In fact, the only way to really make sure your car is going to run when it gets colder than -50 F up there, is to just keep it running all day and night! Terrible, horrible place to work, but the money you get for bearing with it is phenomenal.

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by logwed /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Reading articles online =/= being an expert. 
 

 
 
It does sadden me that more and more people these days believe otherwise to that statement because of the massive proliferation of data, research, papers, articles and opinions that the internet has allowed.
 

 

[bcasey25raptor]

You know I never claimed to be an expert or did I claim it was guaranteed. I said We could be nearing the largest economic collapse since the great depression. There is no certainty but i don't have faith in global economics right now.
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Reading articles online =/= being an expert. 

 

[Niyologist]

Cut taxes on Small Businesses+450 Billion Dollars funded to Small Businesses=Explosive Hiring Rate. 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Bank barrons and swindlers (insurance) is raping the US economy. The largest % of individual financial failure is from healthcare cost. The best healthcare technology in the world but no market can afford it.

Agreed. The nature of the problem is that everyone was playing craps at the casino and had chips stacked up on every possible bet and players privately agreed to even bigger and more complex illegal bets that the casino didn't even allow or know of.

All of a sudden, everyone realized that there wasn't enough cash to cover all of the chips on the table.

So instead of letting the game fold and the gamblers take their losses, and arresting the people who made illegal bets, the government printed a lot of new money and paid off every bet a the table. Even the bets that would have failed on the next roll. They also pretended that the gamblers placing illegal bets were doing nothing wrong and gave them more money, too. Even worse, the casino rules stayed the same and everyone pretended that they were OK, even though people had been cheating.

Today, all the gamblers are back in the casino. They're using the newly-minted money to play the same game they were playing before.

The problem is that there isn't anything backing the chips this time, either.

This isn't going to end well.

What's awful is that there is a good workforce here, plenty of resources, infrastructure, and much else. But there are perverse incentives, vested interests collecting rents and offering little value and corruption.

I won't go further, but the problems are deep. I don't know what is going to happen. The real unemployment rate is pushing 20%. Roll in people working jobs they're overqualified for and part-timers wanting to work full-time, and about half the country is in a bad place.

Finally, tax rates aren't the problem with small businesses. The marginal rates might look tough, but everyone uses deductions to sharply lower taxes. The real problem is how expensive and burdensome it is to have employees. Payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, worker's comp, state regulations, and much else are a pain. They about double what they cost. Then you're on the hook for more costs if you lay someone of or if they get injured. Employees can bankrupt an otherwise profitable business. Then there are permits, licenses and a load of regulation. Just hiring someone to deal with it is expensive.

Personally, I think some of this is intentional. Big Business loves to erect barriers to entry. If those weren't there, small businesses would grow and compete.

If the government were serious about employment, they'd shift the social program costs away from employers. Personally, I like sales taxes, perhaps a VAT. They're a bit regressive, but I'd exempt food, utilities, rent, and create refunds for certain items for those wth low incomes. But taxing consumption is the way to go. It encourages saving, hiring more people and investment.

 

[Happy Camper]

I'd be interested to know how many small businesses are behind in taxes. Yet the big businesses don't pay anything.

 

[Elysian]

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But taxing consumption is the way to go. It encourages saving, hiring more people and investment.

Not only that, but it's generally accepted that underpriced resources tend to be used inefficiently by consumers.  Like a lot of posters have referenced, we have this strange situation where government props up certain sectors (some agriculture, ethanol, finance) and ignores others (some manufacturing, semiconductors).  In addition, the government seems to consider certain things as a public good, and ensures that they're priced lower than what they should be for optimal consumption (gas, parking, etc.).
 
This is a pretty controversial idea, but some economists argue that gasoline should really be $5-6/gal in the US, rather than the $3-4/gal in most parts of the country.  The following proposal was before the recession hit, but some of the core ideas are still interesting, even with our current economic reality.  It's a far cry from certain folks running for elected office, promising that they'll reduce the price of gasoline to $2-3/gal.
 
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/10/pigou-club-manifesto.html
 
Quote:

Raise the Gas Tax
Wall Street Journal | Opinion
October 20, 2006

With the midterm election around the corner, here's a wacky idea you won't often hear from our elected leaders: We should raise the tax on gasoline. Not quickly, but substantially. I would like to see Congress increase the gas tax by $1 per gallon, phased in gradually by 10 cents per year over the next decade. Campaign consultants aren't fond of this kind of proposal, but policy wonks keep pushing for it. Here's why: ...

 
That aside, I agree with everyone that the scariest part of what's going on today is the unemployment.  I've also read a lot of analysts state that real unemployment is around or over 20%, which includes all the underemployed (working below their skill and experience level), part-timers, and people who have given up and taken themselves out of the job market.  It's particularly scary for anyone who is between the ages of 15-35, as it's empirically proven that even losing just a few years of critical work experience and salary history early on will depress an individual's earnings and job advancement for the rest of the individual's life.
 
On top of how difficult (especially for small businesses) it is to maintain and protect themselves from employee risk, there's a lot of perverse encumbrances around organized labor, which is why people are getting so divided around the country.  I don't think we really understand how to value work, particularly within the public sector and organized labor.  You see Korean automakers (such as Kia) setting up plants in union-unfriendly states like Georgia due to how they've seen firsthand how organized labor can sink powerful firms.  Conversely, you have people bitterly divided about how much public educators should be making, with some people claiming they make too much, to others claiming that they should be making $130-150k/yr.  Meanwhile, I'm sure plenty of people here have run across great, motivated young teachers in their 20s who graduated from top schools and are genuinely motivated, but get beat down by the system, and subsequently flee to business or law school.
 
I'm not pointing fingers.  My only point is that something's gone really wrong in the last few decades, and significant entropy, friction, and inertia have set into many systems core to the US.  It's going to take a severe gut check for the country to do a real assessment of what's going on, and take the painful steps to set the road for long-term recovery.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who worries that a lost generation is a definite possibility.

 

[Happy Camper]

Those unemployment numbers are not covering all the workers that can't file for unemployment. The family businesses and one man operations that aren't part of those numbers.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Don't trust the government's figures on unemployment.  That mostly counts people receiving unemployment.  When the number gets too high, they rejigger the formula and exclude people so the rate doesn't look too bad.  But it's ugly, especially when people are trapped in lousy jobs below what they could earn or not fully using their skills.
 
As for a sharp increase in the gas tax, I'm for it.  Actually, I've been hoping someone in LA would grow some reproductive organs and tack on a $1 or $2 for the county.  Use that money to put back the mass transit the city used to have.  The funny thing about LA is that most assume that it was designed for cars.  Not so.  Back in the early 20th century, the new suburbs were laid out in cooperation with Pacific Electric, so there would be mass transit to the new communities.
 
I didn't know that until I saw an 1940s map of Pacific Electric's lines in a local museum.  I had a big What moment when this nearly 70 year old map was bypassing all the traffic chokepoints.  It was like someone had predicted the future.  So I looked into it and found out that the city was designed for mass transit.  If only it hadn't been taken out.
 
Anyhow, I'd support higher gas costs to put in a national rail network that connects to city subways and light rail.  The current rail network is a pain - it often has to be shared with freight.  A new network that was passenger only would be ideal.  Aside from getting cars off the road, look at how much gas an airplane uses.  It's amazing.  If you could replace all sub-500 mile trips with rail, it would save a lot of fuel.

 

[Hennyo]

Yes, the economy has effect all of us 'students' who are receiving loans similar to the 'liar loans' the housing industry was receiving through to 07. The loans have trickled down from Mortgage to 'helping keep the children happy.' The U.S. is in a state of trance and is in a complete state of censorship. Who do you really think makes you rules around here? Who REALLY runs the "Federal Reserve," and who really controls each and ever facet of public or private information you recieve?
 
Last time I checked that's the Murdocks. And who controlls the largest amount of land in the world? An intrinsic resource. Who's really playing with the currencies? Who's really brainwashed your children and mass and especially young generations into oblivion? Suppressing the ability to teach a **** child how to think for itself?
 
The U.S. is the nexus of all financial weary, but we won't be for long. The original plan was to use carbon taxes to convince the people to enslave themselves under new programs - and international unions - even making us easier to control. Who feeds you chemicals that keep you from becoming angry or thinking for yourself? What the hell has happened to our vocabulary and thought process? Who are the Rothschilds?! WHO are the Bilderburgers? What Royal families and Elitists make 'policies' behind closed doors that then suddenly become reality in the real world?!?
How many suppliers do you really have choice to?! What businesses is your life entangled to?!?! And how many are there really in competition with one another?! What is the CFR and what do they do?!
 
And lastly, the question that piqqued my interest, Which presidents were knighted and what were they doing at the time of their knighthood and who were they receiving money from?!?!?! and WHAT does knighthood really mean?
 
These are all fundamental questions that the answers are pitifully bleak too. And the **** will hit the fan. The U.S. is like a Jenga tower where the bricks have been pulled out and the people have been robbed by corporate interests and bank barons who are used as tools in the hands of royal elitists, who rely on others to sectionalize the world under their pretty much - direct control.
 
The world you live in is a ****hole. Even Bill gates, of all people, slipped - here. And you know what, they don't even care if you know anymore, because at this point, there's nothing you can do about it. In 2008 they held a gun to Congress head - the FINAL level of our government which had not been completely 'controlled' or bent to financial will, as these are our direct locally voted representatives, - and they said "no more compromises "You do what we tell you, or we're going to implode your economy," The Congress / Senate laughed, knowing how long we've been in bed with these people and not taken them and their RIDICULOUS sums of wealth =economical power = seriously. 
 
You think the richest people in the world are on a Forbes list?! HA!!! Think again, by a looooonnggg wayys. People who really have money don't want to be visible, you want to be in-visible. If nobody knows who you are how can they possibly know / even care about what your agenda is?! The world we live in is so ridiculously naive. (Oh, and I wonder how we've become that way...... *thinks about it.* hhmmmm)
 
Ok, so we have banks, then we have National banks, then we have Super banks which lend to these banks, and then we enter the world banks and the realm of derivatives. These are the richest people in the world. In the 18th century, The Rothschilds possessed 45-60% of the worlds wealth.
 
http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm
 
If the original founders could see what our Country world has become, they'd be jumping backflips intheir graves.
 
1865: In a statement to Congress, President Abraham Lincoln states, (the famous quote you all know)

 

"I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me, and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in my rear is my greatest foe."

 
     Later that year, on April 14, President Lincoln is assassinated, less than two months before the end of the American Civil War.
Following a brief training period in the Rothschilds London Bank, Jacob Schiff, a Rothschild, born in their house in Frankfurt, arrives in America at the age of 18, with instructions and the finance necessary to buy into a banking house there.  The purpose of this was to carry out the following tasks.

1.  Gain control of America's money system through the establishment of a central bank.
2.  Find desirable men, who for a price, would be willing to serve as stooges for the Illuminati and promote them into high places in the federal government, the Congress, Supreme Court, and all the federal agencies.
3.  Create minority group strife throughout the nations, particularly targeting the whites and blacks.
4.  Create a movement to destroy religion in the United States, with Christianity as the main target.

 
 
If you're interested in something powerful, this guy gets a lot of it right.
 
I've found all of it on my own, oh and believe me, there's much more, but then I found this guy, who has opened a lot of un esoterically inclined peoples eyes...
 
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=2&ob=5
 
He's actually grown a LOT over the last couple years. I've been into this stuff for three years.
 
For me, it all started with who the presidents were that were knighted and what they were doing / who they were communicating with - what they were publicaly pushing at the time of knighthood. Who their affiliates were.
 
Oh, and then there's the Queen of England. The largest PERSONAL land owner in the WORLD.! Guess how much land she's been buying with the oh so "coincidental" rise in value of the English pound.
 
The U.States Government is the second largest 'land owner' in the world with 1,054 Million acres... This is our entire GOVERNMENT - of the newest and most cumulatively sprawled piece of land in the world! And the Queen *personally* (this is not her territories and provinces under England. This is what she personally - under title) - owns. Queen Elizabeth actually solely owns more land in the U.S. than the U.S. goverment at 1,467 million acres. Ever wonder why the English pound has suddenly spiked drastically to the U.S. dollar?
 
The people have not been doing anything different, but the politicians have. They are playing a game now. In the U.S. case, it's a paradigm. (which at this point are puppets to the real Elite 5-700 people of the world) Along with most other authorities that have anything to do with naive America and the EU.
 
These families have been doing it for centuries, "The empire on which the sun never sets," I mean really, come on guys. It used to be territory wars, now it's currency wards. These European High class Bankers / Royalty have been at it for nearly a millenia now. Now we've got American counterparts like the Rockafellers and Murdocks. How hard do you really think brainwash is?!?!?!?!??! (The Murdocks control every bit of information the American public receives as they both own CNN and FOX - along with other major networks, and largely own the U.S. 'regional' networks.) Oh, they also own pretty much every major newspaper out there. Go figure, huh?!
 
http://www.whoownstheworld.com/about-the-book/largest-landowner/
 

Queen Elizabeth II	6,600 million acres
King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia	553 million acres
King Bhumibol of Thailand	126 million acres
King Mohammed IV of Morocco	113 million acres
Sultan Quaboos of Oman	76 million acres

Largest five personal landowners on Earh

 
Now, lets think about this, if you were somebody with nearly an infintesimal amount of money, (money means nothing) and you were quickly able to communicate and manipulate like minded others like you, and collude your financial/economical influence, and able to sectionalize power through corrupt transfer of wealth, how hard do you think it would to socially engineer a people over time?... Look what has happened to the U.S. over the last 30 years. = to easy.
 
The one thing our system relies upon is an (intelligently) informed people, to keep our otherwise perfect system from going astray. However, give the dog a bone and take his attention away from what policies are really being made and throw on a big sham through networks setting up a paradigm come election day, you can see it's really quite simple to collectively fool am entire people. Entire generations even! It really is SOOO simple to bufuddle a brainwashed animal. And onece they're brainwashed! They're addicted to "good feelings." This is what has happened to the USA. We're addicted to "good feelings" rather than results, and emotions are easily manipulated. We can't use paddles at school because it "will scar the children." etc. MANY examples like this throughout society. A credit card system, clearly made to see how good of a slave you can be. Feeding the American people bullcrap, thinking that the "presidential candidates" arn't all in the same bed together pretending to hate each other for the crowd. America is one big movie, addicted to the extravagant, the unbelievable, and is sold on the notion that the inner workings of its government are all "hunky dory." The people will not wake up, and even if they did, it's all but too late now. How do you weed the people out who need to be weeded out in the American system?!
 
Anywho that's my $0.02

Most probably got nothing out of it and prefer not to think about such drastic things, ahh well. I guess it doesn't matter, right?! Let somebody else take care of it. *Face-slap.*
 
 
 
SSooooooo. How the economy has effected me. I'm a strapping looking 18 y/o, have almost no hope of getting a decent job, the costs of living are going up with it currently costing me $800 a month just to breathe, and showing no signs of slowing down (if not drastically speeding up soon). The utilities across Utah just near doubled for power/water consumption. Gas remains the same but last year went up 1/3. It's becoming a slave system, and these are just the first signs. We'll get their. Gold will soar to $3000 + an once and at that point, talk of a North American Federation/Alliance will develop, and at $3800 or so the dollar will be abandoned. We will be the modern EU, (which has failed miserably and they've been trying to save) as we're much easier to control that way. That is when you know there'll no longer be anywhere to run. And the America you've known for all your life will be dead. Unthinkable? I think not. One must examine everything leaving no possibilities protected.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Hennyo]

So, I'm 18, fortunately I'm healthy and have a decent head on my shoulders, so I can get a job. I moved out in 9nth grade and Had a full time job starting 8th grade. Through High school I worked 80-90 hours a week, 35-40 through the school year. I took all the AP classes I could muster on top of that as my family told me / warned me of the importance of education. I've paid rent since Sophomore year and am now trying to figure out weather traditional classical education is what I want to do with my life as my doubts are high concerning such work. A trade seems much more likeable, something I've been looking into is - Sailing as a civilian merchant seaman - to be precise... Actually really big money there and that's one industry that's not going to change. (200+ is very common)
 
But right now, kinda just lofting about, laughing at what's happening, and how it's all being masterfully satisfied. The 'student sector' with free school money to overpriced colleges, and wellfare give-outs to try to divert attention from what the government is really doing. Wars, and using the U.S. military as a personal attack dog for these mega elites personal interest. It's really stunning. And it's so easy for them to do in today's age.
 
If somebodies giving you money, your not likely to turn on that lifeblood, regardless if it's actually killing you in the long run. The government sticking it's hands down your pants at every single turn. "We will do whatever's necessary," even if it's not in their jurisdiction. They're expanding their power, and the average American citizen doesn't even care. The system is broken, and they'll only keep it going as long as they're benefitting. The USD won't be the world reserve currency anymore, and that means your and my standard of living goes down 25-35% overnight.
 
Say hello to the New World Order.
 
And once the wealth of the dollar is completely gone, they'll gracefully "generously" meld us into the NAA or NAF. That'll happen around $3000, but will actually fall through around $3500-3800.

 

[Happy Camper]

Been saying similar for a few years but since people are being fed, it don't bother them.

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

 
As for a sharp increase in the gas tax, I'm for it.  Actually, I've been hoping someone in LA would grow some reproductive organs and tack on a $1 or $2 for the county.  Use that money to put back the mass transit the city used to have.  The funny thing about LA is that most assume that it was designed for cars.  Not so.  Back in the early 20th century, the new suburbs were laid out in cooperation with Pacific Electric, so there would be mass transit to the new communities.
 

I see people all the time that complain about gas prices but don't try to stop buying it.
 
I ride my bike everywhere. Today, I'm taking a 40 mile trip around town on my bike. I think I have about $300 into my bike, which I'm lucky to have what I have and I don't even pay for anything else.
 
I see that if you raise taxes on what seems like a need but really is a want, the tax will work. If you double the price of gas, I swear the revenue will double or triple.
 
Granted, my city is huge and not made for bikes or walking, but I'm not the average person. I cruise at a good 35mph on my single speed everywhere I go. I've been pulled over by the cops on several occasions because of this. But either way, It takes me just 3/4 the time it does with car to get anywhere in town. Even faster if I get some hills.

 

[wje]

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It takes me just 3/4 the time it does with car to get anywhere in town. Even faster if I get some hills.

That's awesome!  Actually, with vehicles, people just look at the "quick" numbers (e.g. - amount of car payment, cost of gas.)  What they overlook is all the extras - new tires, oil changes, insurance, and everything that it takes to keep a car going.  When you add it all up, it's actually quite expensive to maintain and use a vehicle.