How has the economy affected you?
Sep 12, 2011 at 11:11 AM Post #76 of 152


Quote:
I see people all the time that complain about gas prices but don't try to stop buying it.
 
I ride my bike everywhere. Today, I'm taking a 40 mile trip around town on my bike. I think I have about $300 into my bike, which I'm lucky to have what I have and I don't even pay for anything else.
 
I see that if you raise taxes on what seems like a need but really is a want, the tax will work. If you double the price of gas, I swear the revenue will double or triple.
 
Granted, my city is huge and not made for bikes or walking, but I'm not the average person. I cruise at a good 35mph on my single speed everywhere I go. I've been pulled over by the cops on several occasions because of this. But either way, It takes me just 3/4 the time it does with car to get anywhere in town. Even faster if I get some hills.



Can you get a speeding ticket on a bike??
 
On gas prices, I would agree that they are artificially low compared to what is socially optimal. Obviously low gas prices do not equal economic success, as I've heard some politicians state, just look at Venezuela for an extreme example! If economic success were inversely related to gas prices, then Chavez would be bathing in liquid gold and dolphin tears around the clock. I disagree, gasoline is a necessity in today's economy, but not for every consumer. Industry needs gasoline, and many working people simply have no other options when it comes to getting to work. Higher gas prices could easily cause many drivers who do not necessarily need to drive to start finding alternative means of transport, whether it be high school kids with cars, people who work close to home, people who could easily carpool, etc. While the higher gas price is a very visible annoyance, all it takes is a relatively painless change in lifestyle, or if you truly need and can afford it, just bite the bullet. 
 
 
 
Quote: Uncle Erik
Anyhow, I'd support higher gas costs to put in a national rail network that connects to city subways and light rail.  The current rail network is a pain - it often has to be shared with freight.  A new network that was passenger only would be ideal.  Aside from getting cars off the road, look at how much gas an airplane uses.  It's amazing.  If you could replace all sub-500 mile trips with rail, it would save a lot of fuel.

 
This reminds me of the RER in France, if I'm remembering correctly. I used it a couple years ago and it really went quite smoothly. Really an elegant solution to moving people in and out of large cities, as we can see when subway/light rail infrastructure is used to move people in this way, it suffers from massive overcrowding at rush. I'm sure that at rush hours, the RER is also quite crowded, but as a larger capacity and faster running train, it is a much better solution.
 
 
 
@Hennyo, I'm glad to see that paranoids still exist, you people make our lives more interesting.
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 11:13 AM Post #77 of 152
Interesting thoughts Hennyo. I'm not sure I agree with all of them, but I dont necessarilly disagree either, and definitely get where your coming from. Neil Young distilled the essence of your thoughts a while back.
 
We got a thousand points of light
For the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler,
Machine gun hand
We got department stores
and toilet paper
Got styrofoam boxes
for the ozone layer
Got a man of the people,
says keep hope alive
Got fuel to burn,
got roads to drive.

 
More recently he seemed to be saying it is what it is...
 
Some see life as a broken promise
Some see life as a endless fight
They think they live in the age of darkness
They think they live in the age of light

It's a angry world
And everything is gonna be alright
Yeah it's a angry world
Yeah it's a angry world

 

Some see life as hope eternal
Some see life as a business plan
Some wish some would go to hells inferno
For screwing with their life in freedom land

It's a angry world
For the business man and the fisherman
It's a angry world
And no doubt everything will go as planned

Yeah it's a angry world
Yeah it's a angry world
 

 
Sep 12, 2011 at 12:02 PM Post #78 of 152


Quote:
Can you get a speeding ticket on a bike??
 
 
 Higher gas prices could easily cause many drivers who do not necessarily need to drive to start finding alternative means of transport, whether it be high school kids with cars, people who work close to home, people who could easily carpool, etc. While the higher gas price is a very visible annoyance, all it takes is a relatively painless change in lifestyle, or if you truly need and can afford it, just bite the bullet.   
 



Amazingly enough, yes you can. You can also get a DUI on a bike.
 
I see that AMERICA is too lazy to NOT pay for gas. Most people are dedicated to their gas supply and if they had to, they would still pay more for it. People several years ago said that they wouldn't pay more then $2 per gallon. Now they pay upward of $4 per gallon.
 
The counter culture of living without a car is a very interesting one. I'm a advocate for this, but not very strongly. I used to live in a place that was smaller and bikes were used very readily. And people started to conform to this. There were meters put up for car parking to pay for secure bike parking. This made it nice because the major problem with biking is the distance and security.
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 12:39 PM Post #79 of 152
Obviously everyone wants to pay for the lowest possible gas price, but people have to realize that it's just not quite realistic to live so well. Lower gas prices are just another example of people living outside their means, much like conditions before the housing collapse.
 
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 4:47 PM Post #80 of 152


Quote:
 
@Hennyo, I'm glad to see that paranoids still exist, you people make our lives more interesting.


You've got to be kidding me. Did you not read what I said?! These are facts; not blatantly silly claims. You..... wow..
 
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 5:34 PM Post #81 of 152

 
Quote:
 
@Hennyo, I'm glad to see that paranoids still exist, you people make our lives more interesting.


You've got to be kidding me. Did you not read what I said?! These are facts; not blatantly silly claims. You..... wow..
 
Does a preponderance of facts not wake you (?) or are you too uninterested in the truth, and satisfied "letting other people take care of it." What a shining example of the buy n large American people.. If the facts hit them in the face, they don't even flinch, let alone realize the gravity of what's going on a round them. We're a totally brainwashed people.
 
You won't read on because it's 'uncomfortable' for you too imagine such things? The truth is unbiased, it is the truth, and following events will take place according to what happens and has been happening now, so you need to open your mind and please delve into how we got here in the first place. HA! WATCH what you're uncomfortable with become reality. You're NOT going to like it. It's people who prefer to suck on the cool-aid who've allowed us to get this far.
 
Out east it's even worse. I was in Baltimore a few months ago. 1/3 of the city was on wellfare, and the number's only gone up since I last visited there. Many of the cities on the east coast are this way, where the population is densest. How on earth!? So what are we producing?! Where is the money coming from!? The people are so brainwashed they couldn't care less, but even a regular person can say "hey, well something's not right", because these numbers are so imbalanced we can't even comprehend it. And the people, who supposedly have all the power in this country! don't even care!
 
"HA! What a perfect system we've molded to use as your own personal attack dog to serve our interests! And when the time comes,(!) Drain the value of their currency and leave them out to rot (through rampant social destruction) as the plan was originally to in the first place."
 
The ultimate goal:
Chipping people and
It's called Socially acceptable genocide. We have to reduce global population, and that is clearly the ultimate goal. Remeber money is of no importance anymore, these groups have been gathering wealth (not necessarily always 100% money, since money is destable) for centuries if not some families for a millenia. The goal is to 'preserve the world' for themselves. It's about control and preserving the intrinsic things of value that even the beyond glamorously rich place values on. These people are self righteous and believe they are doing the world a favor, and who's to say they aren't?! You don't think the world has been split up into section through pawns and most events in the world have been engineered? Who raised you....
 
I'm not paraonoid. I just don't have toilet paper tubes over each eye, preventing me from connection more than just A-B. Keep the people just smart enough for the paperwork. It's such a birlliant system but it's so simple, just like anything else of modern today. It may sound 'exteremist, but it doesn't really matter 'how its sounds' if it is the truth. The truth is the truth. Open your mind.
 
We could take this even further:
There's no reason you couldn't own a jet, or have extravagant income, but that's the problem with the standard people. They've closed their mind into (easily) manipulable things. And they become emotional when something is "threatened." The destructuring of Americas values began in 2001 with 9/11, and everything is/or has become a scare tactic since then. "These things are too big for you. Stay out of it." Have you not noticed that has been the governments mentality over the last 10 - especially 5 or 6 years?
 
I cannot believe the level of contented naivity. It's quite a structure they've got going, and now they don't even care if the people know, because the people no longer have the power to do anything about it. The U.S.A has been hijacked, the most profitable of which portion for them which has been the "Federal Reserve." More like the Private Reserve, for every dollar you and I saw in the "Stimulus" the bankers and offshore interests saw 30 or $40. And that is a fact.
 
  1. Am I paranoid, or are you paranoid? "Paronoia will destroya," I've heard once said, > but read on. But how easy it's been for them to manipulate the now emotional and stimulated America to be paranoid of every little possible thing that could go wrong, or assualt our precious "liberty." Think about that.
 
WE don't have liberty anymore. It's all a big sham. The remnants of America are dieing and at this point, are all but gone. Both generationally and morals/ethics/valuedly. And even religiously. Your grandparents and my grandparents had a different way of fighting things like these. We've become lax and lazy, sassy and contented Americans, who don't have the stomach to stand up for ourselves. And as a result we've gotten ours. If there's anything left for the history books after this is all said and done, (and it could go about multiple ways, I have no idea who will be left to read or know of it.)
 
And if you're concerned about nukes, nukes will not be used. Only small ones at best. Nobody wants to destroy the world. That's the last thing anyone wants, and in part is one of the whole reasons everything has taken place so far.
 
 
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 5:41 PM Post #82 of 152
Well, I'm impressed the mods have let this thread develop to this extent. The fossil fuel kingdoms can be a thing of the past were it not for their money keeping the world on "Texas tea". Our technologies have been usurped by those controlling the economies of the world, forcing us to continue being dependent on their gravy train. I believe their days are numbered and they know it.
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 7:14 PM Post #83 of 152


Quote:
Well, I'm impressed the mods have let this thread develop to this extent. The fossil fuel kingdoms can be a thing of the past were it not for their money keeping the world on "Texas tea". Our technologies have been usurped by those controlling the economies of the world, forcing us to continue being dependent on their gravy train. I believe their days are numbered and they know it.



Eh, what can we do?
 
I'll sit back listening to The Rolling Stones as the world burns.
popcorn.gif

 
Sep 12, 2011 at 7:15 PM Post #84 of 152
Hennyo,
 
I'm always glad to see more Americans waking up to what is really going on in this world. As you know, none of this is new but more and more people are becoming educated.
 
Are you a subscribed member of Prison Planet TV? Alex is really advancing with his new Info Wars Nightly News. His documentaries are very eye opening. I've watched most of them. "Endgame" and "The Obama Deception" (with over 9 million views) would be a good start to the new comer. Needless to say, I'm a big AJ fan.
 
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/a/4DC30D7045E7F29F/0/x-CrNlilZho
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 7:38 PM Post #85 of 152
Thanks for the interesting and civil commentary, everyone :)  I've been checking this thread multiple times a day to see what people have been saying.  There's quite a bit here I agree with and some that I don't, but I'm surprised and glad we've been able to have this kind of discourse while staying level-headed!
 
Just as a reminder, please refrain from endorsing specific political candidates and parties, and keep posts from getting too inflammatory or close to home (like no '9/11 was an inside job'), so that the mods will let this thread keep going forward.  I think a lot of thoughtful options have been posited, and it's always good to hear what others think, even if it comes from a very different point of view.  I admit I read a few things here that made me shake my head a bit, but then I reread the opinion and started doing some searching.
 
I think we can keep a thoughtful conversation going forward while avoiding polarizing issues that will unnecessarily anger people.
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 7:49 PM Post #86 of 152


Quote:
Well, I'm impressed the mods have let this thread develop to this extent. The fossil fuel kingdoms can be a thing of the past were it not for their money keeping the world on "Texas tea". Our technologies have been usurped by those controlling the economies of the world, forcing us to continue being dependent on their gravy train. I believe their days are numbered and they know it.


+1
 
But I think it just took a bad turn, not that I disagree with Hennyo or GD at all, but because the language and the frames they're using to try and make their point arent likely to help them advance their argument. 
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 7:57 PM Post #88 of 152


Quote:
Yes, the economy has effect all of us 'students' who are receiving loans similar to the 'liar loans' the housing industry was receiving through to 07. The loans have trickled down from Mortgage to 'helping keep the children happy.' The U.S. is in a state of trance and is in a complete state of censorship. Who do you really think makes you rules around here? Who REALLY runs the "Federal Reserve," and who really controls each and ever facet of public or private information you recieve?
 
Last time I checked that's the Murdocks. And who controlls the largest amount of land in the world? An intrinsic resource. Who's really playing with the currencies? Who's really brainwashed your children and mass and especially young generations into oblivion? Suppressing the ability to teach a **** child how to think for itself?
 
The U.S. is the nexus of all financial weary, but we won't be for long. The original plan was to use carbon taxes to convince the people to enslave themselves under new programs - and international unions - even making us easier to control. Who feeds you chemicals that keep you from becoming angry or thinking for yourself? What the hell has happened to our vocabulary and thought process? Who are the Rothschilds?! WHO are the Bilderburgers? What Royal families and Elitists make 'policies' behind closed doors that then suddenly become reality in the real world?!?
How many suppliers do you really have choice to?! What businesses is your life entangled to?!?! And how many are there really in competition with one another?! What is the CFR and what do they do?!
 
And lastly, the question that piqqued my interest, Which presidents were knighted and what were they doing at the time of their knighthood and who were they receiving money from?!?!?! and WHAT does knighthood really mean?
 
These are all fundamental questions that the answers are pitifully bleak too. And the **** will hit the fan. The U.S. is like a Jenga tower where the bricks have been pulled out and the people have been robbed by corporate interests and bank barons who are used as tools in the hands of royal elitists, who rely on others to sectionalize the world under their pretty much - direct control.
 
The world you live in is a ****hole. Even Bill gates, of all people, slipped - here. And you know what, they don't even care if you know anymore, because at this point, there's nothing you can do about it. In 2008 they held a gun to Congress head - the FINAL level of our government which had not been completely 'controlled' or bent to financial will, as these are our direct locally voted representatives, - and they said "no more compromises "You do what we tell you, or we're going to implode your economy," The Congress / Senate laughed, knowing how long we've been in bed with these people and not taken them and their RIDICULOUS sums of wealth =economical power = seriously. 
 
You think the richest people in the world are on a Forbes list?! HA!!! Think again, by a looooonnggg wayys. People who really have money don't want to be visible, you want to be in-visible. If nobody knows who you are how can they possibly know / even care about what your agenda is?! The world we live in is so ridiculously naive. (Oh, and I wonder how we've become that way...... *thinks about it.* hhmmmm)
 
Ok, so we have banks, then we have National banks, then we have Super banks which lend to these banks, and then we enter the world banks and the realm of derivatives. These are the richest people in the world. In the 18th century, The Rothschilds possessed 45-60% of the worlds wealth.
 
http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm
 
If the original founders could see what our Country world has become, they'd be jumping backflips intheir graves.
 
1865: In a statement to Congress, President Abraham Lincoln states, (the famous quote you all know)
"I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me, and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in my rear is my greatest foe."
 
     Later that year, on April 14, President Lincoln is assassinated, less than two months before the end of the American Civil War.
Following a brief training period in the Rothschilds London Bank, Jacob Schiff, a Rothschild, born in their house in Frankfurt, arrives in America at the age of 18, with instructions and the finance necessary to buy into a banking house there.  The purpose of this was to carry out the following tasks.
1.  Gain control of America's money system through the establishment of a central bank.
2.  Find desirable men, who for a price, would be willing to serve as stooges for the Illuminati and promote them into high places in the federal government, the Congress, Supreme Court, and all the federal agencies.
3.  Create minority group strife throughout the nations, particularly targeting the whites and blacks.
4.  Create a movement to destroy religion in the United States, with Christianity as the main target.
 
 
If you're interested in something powerful, this guy gets a lot of it right.
 
I've found all of it on my own, oh and believe me, there's much more, but then I found this guy, who has opened a lot of un esoterically inclined peoples eyes...
 
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=2&ob=5
 
He's actually grown a LOT over the last couple years. I've been into this stuff for three years.
 
For me, it all started with who the presidents were that were knighted and what they were doing / who they were communicating with - what they were publicaly pushing at the time of knighthood. Who their affiliates were.
 
Oh, and then there's the Queen of England. The largest PERSONAL land owner in the WORLD.! Guess how much land she's been buying with the oh so "coincidental" rise in value of the English pound.
 
The U.States Government is the second largest 'land owner' in the world with 1,054 Million acres... This is our entire GOVERNMENT - of the newest and most cumulatively sprawled piece of land in the world! And the Queen *personally* (this is not her territories and provinces under England. This is what she personally - under title) - owns. Queen Elizabeth actually solely owns more land in the U.S. than the U.S. goverment at 1,467 million acres. Ever wonder why the English pound has suddenly spiked drastically to the U.S. dollar?
 
The people have not been doing anything different, but the politicians have. They are playing a game now. In the U.S. case, it's a paradigm. (which at this point are puppets to the real Elite 5-700 people of the world) Along with most other authorities that have anything to do with naive America and the EU.
 
These families have been doing it for centuries, "The empire on which the sun never sets," I mean really, come on guys. It used to be territory wars, now it's currency wards. These European High class Bankers / Royalty have been at it for nearly a millenia now. Now we've got American counterparts like the Rockafellers and Murdocks. How hard do you really think brainwash is?!?!?!?!??! (The Murdocks control every bit of information the American public receives as they both own CNN and FOX - along with other major networks, and largely own the U.S. 'regional' networks.) Oh, they also own pretty much every major newspaper out there. Go figure, huh?!
 
http://www.whoownstheworld.com/about-the-book/largest-landowner/
 
Queen Elizabeth II 6,600 million acres
King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia 553 million acres
King Bhumibol of Thailand 126 million acres
King Mohammed IV of Morocco 113 million acres
Sultan Quaboos of Oman 76 million acres
Largest five personal landowners on Earh
 
Now, lets think about this, if you were somebody with nearly an infintesimal amount of money, (money means nothing) and you were quickly able to communicate and manipulate like minded others like you, and collude your financial/economical influence, and able to sectionalize power through corrupt transfer of wealth, how hard do you think it would to socially engineer a people over time?... Look what has happened to the U.S. over the last 30 years. = to easy.
 
The one thing our system relies upon is an (intelligently) informed people, to keep our otherwise perfect system from going astray. However, give the dog a bone and take his attention away from what policies are really being made and throw on a big sham through networks setting up a paradigm come election day, you can see it's really quite simple to collectively fool am entire people. Entire generations even! It really is SOOO simple to bufuddle a brainwashed animal. And onece they're brainwashed! They're addicted to "good feelings." This is what has happened to the USA. We're addicted to "good feelings" rather than results, and emotions are easily manipulated. We can't use paddles at school because it "will scar the children." etc. MANY examples like this throughout society. A credit card system, clearly made to see how good of a slave you can be. Feeding the American people bullcrap, thinking that the "presidential candidates" arn't all in the same bed together pretending to hate each other for the crowd. America is one big movie, addicted to the extravagant, the unbelievable, and is sold on the notion that the inner workings of its government are all "hunky dory." The people will not wake up, and even if they did, it's all but too late now. How do you weed the people out who need to be weeded out in the American system?!
 
Anywho that's my $0.02
wink.gif
Most probably got nothing out of it and prefer not to think about such drastic things, ahh well. I guess it doesn't matter, right?! Let somebody else take care of it. *Face-slap.*
 
 
 
SSooooooo. How the economy has effected me. I'm a strapping looking 18 y/o, have almost no hope of getting a decent job, the costs of living are going up with it currently costing me $800 a month just to breathe, and showing no signs of slowing down (if not drastically speeding up soon). The utilities across Utah just near doubled for power/water consumption. Gas remains the same but last year went up 1/3. It's becoming a slave system, and these are just the first signs. We'll get their. Gold will soar to $3000 + an once and at that point, talk of a North American Federation/Alliance will develop, and at $3800 or so the dollar will be abandoned. We will be the modern EU, (which has failed miserably and they've been trying to save) as we're much easier to control that way. That is when you know there'll no longer be anywhere to run. And the America you've known for all your life will be dead. Unthinkable? I think not. One must examine everything leaving no possibilities protected.
 
 
 
 
 


OK that is somewhat good news. I am not the only one who thinks this way. Still a tragedy that this is our fate.
 
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 8:00 PM Post #89 of 152
Wow, I'm surprised the suggestion at raising prices at the pump was actually received reasonably well :)  It's usually a non-starter with most people, and I admit it's an easier one to put forward when you make enough money that you don't worry about filling your tank every week.
 
What I'm not fully aware of is what externalities come with heavily discounted gasoline prices in the US.  A lot of oped pieces immediately point towards foreign policy, environmentalism, and drilling.  I'm sympathetic towards the position of many in the US, since we have such a low population density compared to other developed countries.  We're already seeing a definite population migration away from outlying suburbs back into the city, and in many metropolitan areas, the demand for renting a home (apts, condos, townhouses, etc.) is still very healthy.
 
It's interesting since some analysts say that Texas and Canada have their abundant natural resources to thank for their relatively strong economic positions.
 
Quote:
+1
 
But I think it just took a bad turn, not that I disagree with Hennyo or GD at all, but because the language and the frames they're using to try and make their point arent likely to help them advance their argument. 


I hope we can moderate the discourse a bit, or this thread will probably be on its way to locksville soon.  That's also why I like focusing on personal anecdotes, as it's a lot easier to empathize.  Conversations get much more polarized when people start talking about powerful figures and large, amorphous entities.  If it does get locked, though, I think we had a pretty good run, and I'm genuinely impressed with how open-minded the HF community is.
 
Sep 12, 2011 at 8:17 PM Post #90 of 152
Just out of curiosity how old are you guys....Casey, Henny, and GD?
 
I'm asking because one of the guys I used to read a lot, but not so much lately is James Quinn. Anyway he when I was reading his articles, he used to reference a book called, The Fourth Turninig by William Strauss and Neil Howe. Anyway the gist of it was time rather than being linear revolved in cycles, and basic themes repeated themselves every 80 to 100 years and that every generation had an archetype. Here is a link. Anyway I have a feeling you guys, are part of the hero generation, like the guys that stormed the beaches in Normandy.
 
 
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top