How far is too far?

[larry.said]

I started asking myself this question as I started reading countless threads on this forum. At some point, you will reproduce exactly the original recording, but you can't go further than that. LPs that have been recorded 30 years ago, depending on the recording studio and the equipment, will always sound terrible. In fact, audiophile equipment that perfectly reproduces the original sound may actually be detrimental (because you also reproduce all the noise). When you start hearing the point where two tapes were spliced together for over-dubbing then you've gone too far...
At some point you have to ask yourself: what's the point?

Maybe I'm just crazy

 

[warrior05]

It's more than recreating the sound. For example, getting a live recording to truly sound live is not the easiest thing. Plus, many people aren't necessarily trying to recreate exactly how it sounded in the studio. That's why a lot of people get into EQ'ing. Me - I'm not a fan of it. My philosophy is if you have to EQ the sound, you don't have the right equipment to suit your tastes. It's the journey of finding YOUR individual sound which can take a lifetime and makes this hobby so damned fun!

 

[tfarney]

It doesn't sound crazy to me.

"Too far" is when you sit there, looking through your CD (or album or music files) collection, and find yourself skipping over really good music because it doesn't "sound" good enough. And of course, that's just the audiophile entry drug. You've really crossed over to the dark side when you find yourself buying "audiophile" recordings, not because you actually like Dianna Krall (just an example, maybe not even a good one) better than Bruce Springsteen, but because the recording makes your gear sound better.

Too far. Stupid far. Been there, done that. Turned around and walked away.

Tim

 

[Pars]

Listen to an XRCD remastering of Reiner / CSO recorded in the '50s. Sounds great, and great performances as well. Perhaps not as great sounding as a modern recording, but really good nonetheless. I know that classical (and probably jazz, but I'm not sure on that one) was recorded with much more care than most pop/rock, etc. up until the late '60s/early '70s

I'm with Tim here... I don't look for audiophile recordings; if I have to choose performance quality over recording quality, the performance will win every time. Of course much modern rock, etc. is compressed so heavily its hard to do anything with it...

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry.said /img/forum/go_quote.gif At some point, you will reproduce exactly the original recording, but you can't go further than that. LPs that have been recorded 30 years ago, depending on the recording studio and the equipment, will always sound terrible. In fact, audiophile equipment that perfectly reproduces the original sound may actually be detrimental (because you also reproduce all the noise). When you start hearing the point where two tapes were spliced together for over-dubbing then you've gone too far... At some point you have to ask yourself: what's the point? Maybe I'm just crazy

Well just to clarify a false assumption, many 30-50 year old recordings are considered to be excellent recordings. Hearing a tape splice or a drop out on magnetic tape does not detract for me one bit providing I am also getting the additional tonal texture and spacial information that come along with higher resolution gear. LPs done many years ago are some of the best recordings out there. They suffer from less compression and many were done live in a studio 50-60s jazz with little or no dubbing or wq. Just quality mics, well thought out rooms and good tape decks.

So my answer is no resolution does not detract for me as I enjoy the benefits and do not care about the oocasional splice or drop out or hiss for that matter.

 

[greggf]

I'm just now rediscovering the joys of tone controls - bass and treble - to make poorly-recorded but good music tolerable again.

I would have considered tone controls blasphemy (or is it heresy?) just as recently as a couple three years ago.

 

[nikongod]

on the note of too far:
you can always throw a single bit of low-end gear in the chain of an otherwise great system if you want to reduce its resolution for whatever reason, but a low-end system will struggle and fail getting all the greatness of a really good recording out. I use a CHEAP and old radio-shack EQ for the purpose of "throttling" when necessary. It can be totally switched out of the signal path, and when necessary it adds (takes away!) its sound AND gives me the option of EQ'ing out the truly offensive bits of music.

on the vinyl record front:
Most records that are of poor "mix" quality are equally worthless on CD. This is not the fault of the medium, but the producers and artists. There are a few albums on CD that are totally blown away by their vinyl versions. as long as there are not obvious flaws (digital clipping/excessive compression) a well made record will hold its place neck and neck with a well made CD.

To add to that: Quite a bit of older music is only really available on a record. When you can find recorded before about 1950/60 on a CD it is very frequently a transcription off of a record.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry.said /img/forum/go_quote.gif At some point you have to ask yourself: what's the point? Maybe I'm just crazy

Like any of us here would notice that?

 

[Golden Monkey]

Agreed with Tim here too...

Audiophilia isn't some sort of magical drug that makes all your music sound better...I started listening not so much to music that I wasn't into but I did start to reject some of my music just based on how crappy it sounded due to poor recording/mastering. The pre-remasterd Grand Funk Railroad CDs I have that I never had a problem with before...I started listening to them, and they sounded like they were coming to me through a wall of mud. Couldn't even make it through an album.

That said though, I have REALLY enjoyed a lot of my music even moreso (isn't that the point anyway?) when I discover how WELL they were done in the first place. I don't mind resolution and details to the point that you can hear tape splices or notice things like "hey, that's not a real piano, that's a synth". I can sometimes freak out a little bit when I keep hearing pops or some weird anomaly in the recording over and over...I start thinking "why does that drum sound like that? It has a weird snap to it...is that jitter...static? Are my interconnects doing something weird? Is the DAC acting up? Is there a short somewhere?", but then I sit back and breathe, and just remind myself that I'm hearing things in recordings I never took the time to notice before, and things are fine...

Ideally, I'd like my rig to resolve ALL the detail there is in the music, present it naturally and without color, and make me feel like if I close my eyes I'm there. I like to take the approach when I listen where sometimes besides just enjoying the music, I enjoy the mic placement, I enjoy the work of the studio engineer, I enjoy a well done recording or mastering, I enjoy the acoustics of the venue, and so on...and yes, sometimes I just enjoy hearing my money in action, and I like listening to my DAC

I had to be very critical for a long time, getting my system to the point where I was happy with it, and this involved many hours of just listening to equipment. That's not so bad, and I enjoyed it throughly. Did it detract from just kicking back and enjoying the music? Sure, but I learned a lot about components, cables, etc., and I had time to develop my critical ear, so it was well spent time, IMO. Now that I'm (almost) to the point of declaring my system DONE, I'm getting back to just listening to the music, not the differences between silver or copper digital coax, power cords, etc... I've been buying a lot of CDs again, and listening to old favorites in a whole new light. Things I've heard literally hundreds of times have taken on a new dimension, and its like "hello old friend, nice to meet you...".

 

[tfarney]

Golden Monkey has found joy in his path. There are many paths. Enjoy yours.

Tim

 

[monolith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Too far" is when you sit there, looking through your CD (or album or music files) collection, and find yourself skipping over really good music because it doesn't "sound" good enough. And of course, that's just the audiophile entry drug. You've really crossed over to the dark side when you find yourself buying "audiophile" recordings, not because you actually like Dianna Krall (just an example, maybe not even a good one) better than Bruce Springsteen, but because the recording makes your gear sound better. Too far. Stupid far. Been there, done that. Turned around and walked away.

Absolutely agreed and very true. Well said.

 

[larry.said]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I started listening not so much to music that I wasn't into but I did start to reject some of my music just based on how crappy it sounded due to poor recording/mastering.

That's what I'm afraid of actually...As your system becomes increasingly good you begin to be selective about the type of music you listen to. And if at any point your start hearing clipping (sporadicly) you become worried and start thinking maybe your system is breaking down. You almost become paranoid; become critical, develop hypertension and die

 

[Golden Monkey]

I suddenly have this urge to listen to Led Zeppelin IV right now..."Yes there are two paths you can go by/
but in the long run/
There's still time to change the road you're on...".

Yeah, you're right Tim...it's been fun. Agonizing at times, obsessive, ridiculous, expensive, nerdy, filled with doubts and second guessing, ear fatigue, miserable waits for packages to arrive, sleepless nights and strange dreams (I had one where I found these ultra-rare Jecklins that were made from a leather aviator helmet from the '20s, that was one of five ever made, at a garage sale for $5, lol...What?), but ultimately it has been a blast and I've learned a lot.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry.said /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's what I'm afraid of actually...As your system becomes increasingly good you begin to be selective about the type of music you listen to. And if at any point your start hearing clipping (sporadicly) you become worried and start thinking maybe your system is breaking down. You almost become paranoid; become critical, develop hypertension and die

Nah, don't sweat it! The obsessiveness passes, believe me. Then just the passion remains, and you're all good again

.

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I suddenly have this urge to listen to Led Zeppelin IV right now..."Yes there are two paths you can go by/ but in the long run/ There's still time to change the road you're on...". Yeah, you're right Tim...it's been fun. Agonizing at times, obsessive, ridiculous, expensive, nerdy, filled with doubts and second guessing, ear fatigue, miserable waits for packages to arrive, sleepless nights and strange dreams (I had one where I found these ultra-rare Jecklins that were made from a leather aviator helmet from the '20s, that was one of five ever made, at a garage sale for $5, lol...What?), but ultimately it has been a blast and I've learned a lot.

Ah...if I make you cue up LZ IV, I'll call that a productive day...

Tim