[knownothing2]

, or don't understand it.
For example seeming to think that permanence or repeatability is somehow an indicator against bias, seeming to think bias is always or mostly random.
(Next to many other misconceptions.)

Establishing permanence and repeatability is a mechanism to control for, or at least provide statistical significance in the face of bias and random outcomes. Or perhaps I am missing something here. Are you suggesting that the bias is permanent and the suggested effects are not? Please say more.

kn

 

[Davesrose]

Again, thanks. But I am not claiming an effect on the drive. I am suggesting that the switching supply in the Node is producing more noise when supplying the mechanical drives than when supplying the solid state devices and/or affecting the clock signal generated in the server, and those slight errors are conserved in the signal to the external DAC, producing audible differences in the listening chair. Am I making myself clear, because from your replies I think I may not be. I am suggesting this is a one-off situation unlikely to be repeated in other circumstances.

kn

What you're being clear about is that you're back to position 0 in your circular logic. Repeatedly we've told you how noise is not an issue with USB devices (or DACs as well). It's in one ear out the other. You've claimed the links you've supplied from the manufacturer about USB connections somehow support your theories, when they don't even mention sound quality (or "audible differences"). You mention you appreciate our efforts in trying to educate you, but time and time again, you slap us in the face by ignoring facts we've presented and keep on repeating your falsehoods. I have repeatedly told you there is no timing errors with USB...yet here you are again repeating this false theory. Sorry, I have stated several times how jitter or noise does not create timing errors...let alone "slight errors". Maybe everyone should just ignore you now: don't feed the you know what.

 

[bigshot]

Why are you still going on about this when you’ve been told over and over that digital audio either plays bit perfect, or it doesn’t play at all. There’s no way that a power issue could cause a “flatness” in the sound. It would glitch like crazy dropping out and trying to recover over and over, or it wouldn’t play at all. You’ve been told this and it goes in one ear and out the other.

You’re superficially polite, but running us in circles like this is disrespectful.

 

[castleofargh]

Now we're questioning the existence of biases by using logical fallacy. We're going in circle, backward

 

[sander99]

Establishing permanence and repeatability is a mechanism to control for, or at least provide statistical significance in the face bias and random outcomes.

No. Permanence and repeatability don't control for bias.
If you do for example a proper level matched double blind ABX test then you have controlled for bias, and by repeating the test often enough you get statistical significance.
(In case you don't know ABX: the test subject can listen to A, B, and X as many times and in whatever order and as long as he/she wants and then has to indicate whether X is the same as A or X the same as B.)

Are you suggesting that the bias is permanent and the suggested effects are not? Please say more.

First let me say I use the word bias here in a broad sense, let's say meaning any form of perceptual error caused by something other than the actual sound. I don't know if this is completely correct usage of the word, but it saves me a lot of typing.
There are many forms of bias, and bias can work in many ways.

Just an example what could have happened in the case of the usb drives etc.:
Maybe the first time that you listened to the "bad" usb hdd for whatever coincidental reason you perceived the sound as you described ("flat"?). At that moment your subconscious could have concluded (or at that moment you concsiously concluded) that the usb hdd must be the cause. At that moment a permanent (or semi-permanent, for an undetermined duration?) bias could have been created in your subconscious mind that causes the same "flat" effect in your perception in later listening sessions.
Examples of possible "whatever coincidental reason":
-In the case of headphones: a (slightly) different positioning of the headphones on your head
-In the case of loudspeakers: a (slightly) different position of your head in the room (even a few inches can make a difference: for higher frequencies with short wave lengths there will be a fine-scale interference pattern of dips and peaks, different for different frequencies, accross the room, in fact it could even be that at later listening sessions you subconsciously move your head to the same or a similar sounding spot in an effort to confirm the "flatness" to yourself - an idea suggested by Ethan Winer if I remember correctly).

In the beginning I read all your posts but I have stopped doing that, all the possible guesses of what might cause a real audible difference are tiresome. The chance that bias / perceptual error is the cause is astronomically larger than the chance that there is a real audible difference. I hope this post helps you to understand that. Bias isn't rare, or easily predictable, or confined to one form or another.

 

[bfreedma]

What you're being clear about is that you're back to position 0 in your circular logic. Repeatedly we've told you how noise is not an issue with USB devices (or DACs as well). It's in one ear out the other. You've claimed the links you've supplied from the manufacturer about USB connections somehow support your theories, when they don't even mention sound quality (or "audible differences"). You mention you appreciate our efforts in trying to educate you, but time and time again, you slap us in the face by ignoring facts we've presented and keep on repeating your falsehoods. I have repeatedly told you there is no timing errors with USB...yet here you are again repeating this false theory. Sorry, I have stated several times how jitter or noise does not create timing errors...let alone "slight errors". Maybe everyone should just ignore you now: don't feed the you know what.

Probably for the best. The discussion can always be picked up if the OP provides any evidence supporting their position.

 

[BS5711]

“Audiophiles” simply believe nobody can argue with what they hear, which is more correctly what they think they hear.

That to me is the beginning and the end of why nothing sinks in with any of them.

They simply don’t want to understand because that would mean that everything they thought they knew would be wrong and then would they be in their hobby.

I wonder if knownothing2 was trying to tell us something with the username and this is all a joke, most audiophiles would have given up the fight long ago.

 

[knownothing2]

What you're being clear about is that you're back to position 0 in your circular logic. Repeatedly we've told you how noise is not an issue with USB devices (or DACs as well

At serious risk of being accused of beating a dead concept, I would like a little more clarification. Is the Bluesound Node being supplied data on a USB bus and serving a signal out via coax a “USB device”? I think of a USB drive as a “USB device”. I think of the Bluesound Node streamer as a multi function server/streamer/DAC that utilizes and supports multiple input and output formats.

kn

 

[BS5711]

At serious risk of being accused of beating a dead concept ……..

I think that horse well and truly bolted several pages back.

 

[bigshot]

Knownothing2, there is nothing for you here. We aren’t going to tell you what you want to hear, and you don’t want to hear what we have to tell you. Whether it’s a problem with your ability to communicate with others or a problem with your ability to think about a problem and break it down, your situation here is uncorrectable at this point. You’ve frustrated every one of us and made communicating with you an absolute chore. I can’t speak for others, but my patience is at an end. I’ve said what I’ve had to say multiple times. There’s no reason to repeat myself at this point. My responses from here on are going to be pretty dismissive and I refer you back to what you’ve already been told in this thread.

 

[Davesrose]

I wonder if knownothing2 was trying to tell us something with the username and this is all a joke, most audiophiles would have given up the fight long ago.

It might be an acknowledgement that this account is all AI generated. I've participated in Quora: I'm getting more questions that are their bot generator (and it's amazing how it concisely samples the demographic its posing the question from).

 

[BS5711]

It might be an acknowledgement that this account is all AI generated. I've participated in Quora: I'm getting more questions that are their bot generator (and it's amazing how it concisely samples the demographic its posing the question from).

I have spotted a few typos and grammatical errors in his posts, unless AI does that to fit in better ??

 

[Davesrose]

I have spotted a few typos and grammatical errors in his posts, unless AI does that to fit in better ??

Oh yes, AI throws errors from what it samples. Or it also can't quite figure out basic rules. Like how sophisticated image generators can make people look photo realistic except in the hands. When it comes to spelling errors, look at the AI generated posters for that Glasgow Willy Wonka flop!

 

[BS5711]

Oh yes, AI throws errors from what it samples. Or it also can't quite figure out basic rules. Like how sophisticated image generators can make people look photo realistic except in the hands. When it comes to spelling errors, look at the AI generated posters for that Glasgow Willy Wonka flop!

Good grief.

I am about to put on some cartchy tuns to listen to during my work day.

 

[bigshot]

I think he’s serious and not a troll. He wants to use us to give him technical info to back up his uninformed impressions elsewhere in Head Fi. But he’s so far off base with his guesses, we aren’t giving him anything he can use. He has some sort of personality quirk that makes him keep hammering away until he gets what he wants, so we suffer his persistent refusal to listen.