Members do fall in love with 2nd tier headphones because they enjoy the less than perfect sound and continue to like the headphones years on end.
Are they missing something here?
One place I personally arrived at in this journey was anticlimactic. After putting the best source, amp and headphones together within my financial constrain, I suddenly found very few CDs in my collection of 3000 to be enjoyable to me.
How is that? The more money you dump into this hobby the more enjoyable your rig is suppose to be? Right?
Members do fall in love with 2nd tier headphones because they enjoy the less than perfect sound and continue to like the headphones years on end.
Are they missing something here?
One place I personally arrived at in this journey was anticlimactic. After putting the best source, amp and headphones together within my financial constrain, I suddenly found very few CDs in my collection of 3000 to be enjoyable to me.
How is that? The more money you dump into this hobby the more enjoyable your rig is suppose to be? Right?
This whole line of topic is dumb. You came to your conclusion based on? Seemingly nothing.
It'd be far more efficient to start this thread in the headphone section and let the the people speak.
Then you could gather data points and construct a more reasonable tier than pricing which is stupid.
For example, those who had the HD800 and downgraded to the HD650. Maybe they had
financial constraints or perhaps they listen to their speakers more and no longer could justify
keeping the HD800.
Why is there an obsession to rank or tier? People has different taste. If the person enjoy his phone the most, that phone is tier one to him. If you give me the very expensive totally flat phone, I might say it lack bass. So this headphone is now tier 2? I have bought and listened to many TOTL new flagship headphone, but I still enjoy my former tier 1 flagship Sony V6 the most.
Why is there an obsession to rank or tier? People has different taste. If the person enjoy his phone the most, that phone is tier one to him. If you give me the very expensive totally flat phone, I might say it lack bass. So this headphone is now tier 2? I have bought and listened to many TOTL new flagship headphone, but I still enjoy my former tier 1 flagship Sony V6 the most.
This discussion is exactly why I pay very little attention to the "sound science" section. Now we have sound science people seeking an answer that clearly has to be subjective, at the same time trying to convince us that there should be no subjectivity in music listening. Boggles the mind, really. I will go back to enjoying what I enjoy, and ignoring graphs and charts. That is what makes me happy when it comes to headphones and headphone gear.
This discussion is exactly why I pay very little attention to the "sound science" section. Now we have sound science people seeking an answer that clearly has to be subjective, at the same time trying to convince us that there should be no subjectivity in music listening. Boggles the mind, really. I will go back to enjoying what I enjoy, and ignoring graphs and charts. That is what makes me happy when it comes to headphones and headphone gear.
to quote a science people^_^:
"science is what we use to keep us from lying to ourselves"
if you value being happy over knowing more about the truth, then most likely avoiding anything "sciency" is the way to go. I don't judge, it's a blue pill/red pill question and every man has to chose. but accept that we might not all be you.
the comments above about the topic being in the wrong place or simply being wrong, has to do with the way chosen by the OP to quantify headphone ranking.
if we can't agree on what is a top tier headphone, it's obviously hard to answer the question. they're not trying to make things complicated, it's the opposite, they ask to be more specific so that we can hope to answer.
to quote a science people^_^:
"science is what we use to keep us from lying to ourselves"
if you value being happy over knowing more about the truth, then most likely avoiding anything "sciency" is the way to go. I don't judge, it's a blue pill/red pill question and every man has to chose. but accept that we might not all be you.
the comments above about the topic being in the wrong place or simply being wrong, has to do with the way chosen by the OP to quantify headphone ranking.
if we can't agree on what is a top tier headphone, it's obviously hard to answer the question. they're not trying to make things complicated, it's the opposite, they ask to be more specific so that we can hope to answer.
I am not sure I was judging, just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy in this particular discussion, given its location. I actually find this section of head-fi to be the most judgmental of all. It simply proffers a different hypothesis for judgement.
This whole line of topic is dumb. You came to your conclusion based on? Seemingly nothing.
It'd be far more efficient to start this thread in the headphone section and let the the people speak.
Then you could gather data points and construct a more reasonable tier than pricing which is stupid.
For example, those who had the HD800 and downgraded to the HD650. Maybe they had
financial constraints or perhaps they listen to their speakers more and no longer could justify
keeping the HD800.
Your right. I came to my own assumption as a conclusion. The thread was started 3 days and 7 hours ago. I just felt that it has had it's time in the sun.
Still I have to think there is a phenomena here. There has also been a string of great answers to the question. If you carefully read the entire thread you will see the questions asked of the science minded. Much of the time these questions take time and maybe there is no final way to conclude with scientific reason why some continue to enjoy a possible inacurate sound signature. Some said it was nice to have things layed back as maybe it was a way to make music relaxed. Others found that they didn't want to hear the sound file a clear as possible as they liked to have the detail smeared.
I would be happy to move this to the headphone section but I really do have questions for the science minded, even if this challenge was not maybe placed in the best scientific stance.
Why not make a list of attributes for headphones and see if there is a pattern that can be identified to assist in categorizing them?
Decide on some measurements to use, and how they might be obtained.
-Sensitivity
-Frequency Response
-Harmonic Distortion
-Impedance
-Maximum Power Input
What about physical characteristics?
-Weight
-Size
-Materials
-Color
-Pad Shape
-Fit
-Connection Type
-Cable type and length
Intangibles?
-Price
-Social Status
-Brand
-User Experiences
-Durability
-Portability
These are only a few, and are in no way a complete list. Come up with some criteria that can be used to organize the headphones in some way. There has to be some common ground that can be used for this discussion to continue in a constructive manner. Price, alone, does not seem to be enough for most people to consider a product to be superior.
why price alone doesn't work for me, ultrasone 10. how do we know that we're paying for sound and not for a name or a design? for the the ultrasone it's obviously not for the sound, but it's not always that obvious.
then there are the headphones that are massively mass produced, and some that aren't. it will massively affect the price without having any connection to the quality of the headphone.
I know that I don't have anything I myself see as top tier, for reasons that are not sound: too heavy(LCD2), needs too much EQ(HD800), needs a monster amp+comfort+weight(stax, and a few others) and I can't see myself get another amp just for 1 headphone, that makes the purchase of the headphone look even less reasonable.
but if sound was the one and only matter, then yes I would probably own a few "top tier" headphones.
For user experience, do you mean the influence of other users' experiences from reading reviews or testimonials, or the individual user's history of headphone and speaker usage and now that might influence how one perceives a new/different headphone? Or both? Also, because headphone listening is ultimately an aesthetic experience for many, then that's going to be shaped a lot by individual preference.
It also seems to me that because of the biases that many of these items bring to any listening experience, that deciding on Tiers seems quite impossible without blind testing. Otherwise, many of these factors will overwhelm the more measurable characteristics of your other category.
Finally, I would include "fit" here in this category since it's such a personal, subjective evaluation.
I like your comment "Tier-1 is just a gateway to higher levels of Tier-1." Headphones are the final component to complete a system, if your going claim tier one status you need tier one gear at every stage in your signal chain. Tier 1 cans require a tier one amp and so forth now the price really jumps up. Now take into consideration how picky tier 1 gear is, impedance matching power requirements finding synergy in a sea of products all claiming to be that one product you can't live without
I can't believe this has been let slide in the Sound Science section - all that is needed for an amp, source, DAC, etc is that it be audibly perfect and that it have plenty of power for the required load. This should almost never cost more than a couple hundred dollars, total. An HD800 or an LCD-3 can be driven perfectly by an O2/ODAC, and there is nothing further to be gained with higher cost equipment.
The question is "How and why do members fall in love with second tier headphones?" This tentative insight, is the hypothesis of this thread. The respond has been filled with skepticism. Skepticism is the foundation of the scientific method. Is this thread sound science, not really it's a survey. I want to point out that many of the posters in this thread are not in denial about the superior technical qualities found in the upper price range market,"Tier 1". Denial and scientific method don't mix!
The scientific method combined with carefully designed experimentation can be used as proof that the human ear can hear, aka Audiology.
The thing is science has not really proven anything, it only confirms what I already know to be self evident.
♫ She blinded me with science! And failed me in biology ♫
For user experience, do you mean the influence of other users' experiences from reading reviews or testimonials, or the individual user's history of headphone and speaker usage and now that might influence how one perceives a new/different headphone? Or both? Also, because headphone listening is ultimately an aesthetic experience for many, then that's going to be shaped a lot by individual preference.
It also seems to me that because of the biases that many of these items bring to any listening experience, that deciding on Tiers seems quite impossible without blind testing. Otherwise, many of these factors will overwhelm the more measurable characteristics of your other category.
Finally, I would include "fit" here in this category since it's such a personal, subjective evaluation.
I was lumping "user experience" with reported reviews and testimonials.
Maybe the approach is completely off? The more I think about it, this really comes across as a review using certain parameters and providing weight for each area to come up with some arbitrary score.
I was lumping "user experience" with reported reviews and testimonials.
Maybe the approach is completely off? The more I think about it, this really comes across as a review using certain parameters and providing weight for each area to come up with some arbitrary score.
I liked what you started. I think it highlights how very difficult such a task would be because there are so many factors involved. At best, I think one could create tiers for the individual factors you have listed. But something that combines everything? Doesn't seem possible because taking into account all those different factors would involve creating rating scales and metrics, and then weighting the factors somehow to combine them together. The results would always be highly subjective.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
