Home Theater 5.1 Receiver reco please

[grancasa]

I've got a Denon (1602 I believe), and I am very happy with it. Tons of inputs, all the decoding you need, good build quality. Go for it!

 

[tkam]

In that price range I'd go with the Outlaw or the Denon 1802

 

[ServinginEcuador]

IF you don't mind, can you explain the difference between the 1802 and 2802 that would push me toward the 1802?? The 1802 is about $100 cheaper, but I don't know about the specific differences between them. More power, more inputs, better sound, more sound options, etc.

I liked two things about the 2802 that drew me to it: Pro Logic II, and DTS ES, and it was rated very highly by the reviewers at Audio Review. It received something like a 4.6 of 5 with 116 reviews. Impressive for so little money.

I don't need that much more power as I am surviving quite well with a mere 40-50 watts/channel now. Like most here I am seeking the best band for the buck system I can buy. I don't want to spend more than $500, and the 2802 is like $480 or so.

I originally liked the Outlaw, but after reading what Pro Logic II offers, I don't want another system without it. I listen to music using this system off and on, so it would be nice to have the benefit of PL II.

I also want to stick with Denon as I have heard so much about its quality and build strength. I can't have anything breaking on me here as a round trip transport in my luggage would take up more than half of a piece of luggage. We only have 4 pieces we can bring, so that's a lot.

 

[bootman]

Go to www.crutchfield.com.
They make it very easy to compare features on their site.
They don't have the best prices (but really good customer service).

BTW, the 1802 is currently replaced by the 1803.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by bootman Go to www.crutchfield.com. They make it very easy to compare features on their site. They don't have the best prices (but really good customer service). BTW, the 1802 is currently replaced by the 1803.

Thanks for the info and link Bootman. I'll check them out at Crutchfield.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Joe Dick,

It's a Yamaha RX5420. It may be good for some things, but is pretty bad when listening to movies. I can sell it here for enough money to buy something much better, so plan to do so.

After looking around I am starting to really like the Denon 1803. Looks like a pretty good buy considering all you get.

 

[morphsci]

Whatever you decide, make sure you audition it yourself. I auditioned a Denon 2802 and decided I did not like the Denon sound. Very bloated in the lower midrange/midbass and a restriction at both the top and bottom ends. I much preferred the Outlaw, especially on music. They were much closer on movies IMO. I rarely used the PLII, so it was not a big loss.

I also preferred the build quality of the Outlaw. The Outlaw weighs over 36 pounds, the Denon 25+ pounds. Not that the build quality on the Denon was shoddy.

Finally the Outlaw, although only rated at 65Wpc, definitely drove my speakers better than the Denon. The lack of headroom with the Denon may be what I was hearing as midrange/midbass bloat.

Most of this difference is most likely from the power amps. My guess is that with external amplification, the sound would be much more similar. Unfortunately at that time I did not have external amplification available for comparison.

Just a few things (more) to think about. Good luck.

 

[aeberbach]

One big thing to look out for when you're evaluating a receiver is how it handles video. Some don't switch it at all, some only do composite, but some do S-video and I guess there are some doing component (although I've never seen one). It is really convenient when switching sources from cable to DVD to switch everything through one box. Take special note of how much the receiver degrades the video signal when you pass it through. The feature is worth nothing if it degrades your picture.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by joe dick servinginecuador, by all accounts the 1802 is good receiver. just two more questions about your yamaha. do you use the dsps when listening to movies? i don`t. do you have trouble with the dialogue talk or is it more generalized dissatisfaction? i sometimes find that dialogue is lost in the mix but always assumed that it was the recording.

For movies I just let it accept whatever format the movie comes in. Generally that is Dolby Digitat, DTS, or whatever the older mivoes come in. For listening to CDs I leave it in normal Dolby Pro Logic. The Enhanced version introduces an echo/delay into the speakers that I detest.

Most of the time my complaints fall into two areas: first, dialogue during the movie is drowned out or so recessed I have to turn the volume way up, and then way down for the sound effects. Secondly is how the sound really degenerates in anything other than stereo mode with the effects off. I get great bass and overall sound when using just the front speakers and sub, but in whatever mode I choose other than that the sound really changes dramatically for the worse, and the bass goes down by at least 1/2 to 1/4 of where it was just seconds before. My old Onkyo did the same thing when I switched in a second pair of speakers, the volume just went down. My roommates' stereo at the time, Pioneer I believe, never did that. It just got louder when the second pair of speakers were introduced.

The vocals of movies took a huge leap forward with the new Jamo speakers, but is still not there. I think it has to do with Yamaha's design and implementation of their DSP stuff. When watching Star Wars Ep II I switched back and forth between the stereo and Dolby Digital, and the sounds were much better, clearer, vocals sounded better, when using just the front speakers. As soon as I switched the Dolby Digital back on the sound went downhill fast. To me it justs points to the Yamaha receiver not doing that good of a job of decoding the signal well enough for the 5 channel sound.


For the rest: I don't feed any video thru the receiver. None. I use the S-Video output of my Sony dvd player, or video RCA signal from the VHS, directly hooked to my LCD projector, and the RCA outs to my Creek OBH-11. I can't see the use in passing the video signal thru another component. It would seem to me that this would degrade it slightly, sut since I've never done it what do I know. Just a theory without experience to back it. We only have a VCR and DVD, we don't have cable TV, and never will.

 

[redshifter]

sie,
are you sure your dvdp is set up to output the right kind of digital signal? i have to set mine to bitstream for my denon htrec to switch to decoding 5.1. does your rec indicate real dd 5.1 is playing, or matrixed pl2 or stereo? some dvd's will default to stereo, so on the disc you have to indicate you want 5.1.

if you are playing movies in stereo without the center i am not surprised you are having trouble hearing the dialog.

like i said before, the denons have dynamic compression, so sound effects will not be as loud and dialog will be louder. even on "high" setting it is a good compander, i cannot detect any pumping or hard limits on the sound, and it does fix the too loud/soft problem.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by redshifter sie, are you sure your dvdp is set up to output the right kind of digital signal? i have to set mine to bitstream for my denon htrec to switch to decoding 5.1. does your rec indicate real dd 5.1 is playing, or matrixed pl2 or stereo? some dvd's will default to stereo, so on the disc you have to indicate you want 5.1. if you are playing movies in stereo without the center i am not surprised you are having trouble hearing the dialog. like i said before, the denons have dynamic compression, so sound effects will not be as loud and dialog will be louder. even on "high" setting it is a good compander, i cannot detect any pumping or hard limits on the sound, and it does fix the too loud/soft problem.

Redshifter,

I'm not sure what the dvd is set to output, but when Star Wars comes on Dobly Digital is displayed on the receiver, and for other movies it says DTS, or whatever the movie is encoded with. So, it would seem that it is outputing the signal correctly, but the receiver is just doing a bad job of decoding the signal. I use the center channel for movies and such, and even with it the dialog is just too low compared to the rest of the sounds. It is really wierd but I think that the cheapo Yamaha receiver that came with the home theater in a box system I bought just sucks for proper decoding and playback. Great for 2 speaker stereo playback, but is pretty bad for anything else.

Thanks for the tip on the dynamics of the audio. My receiver also has a setting to lower the dynamics on it, so I'll have to try it and see how it affects the dynamics on movies in the future. I bet that it helps with having to constantly changing the volume throughout every movie we watch.


Joe,
Whatever is the best audio the dvd has, that's what I use. Whether that be DTS, Dolby Digital, or whatever. The audio seems to be pretty bad regardless of the mode it is in. Again, this seems to be the fault of the receiver. In stereo it sounds much better, but as soon as I turn the surround processor back on the audio deteriorates.


I'm sure WHATEVER I get it will be better than what I have. It's just a matter of what I decide on. It will have to be site unheard as it will be bought while I am here, and then sent down with a work group coming to Ecuador in July. I wish I could audition a couple of amps and see which one I liked, but that is impossible. Once you buy something here it's yours for life. They have no auditions. My brand new Jamo powered sub was not working when we got it out of the box, so thank God it didn't work the day I bought it so I could return it for another unit. That unit will arrive from Cuenca or Guayaquil on Monday, so I'm hoping this one works.


Thanks again for all the help and advice. I am still pretty set on the Denon unit, but the Outlaw is in close second. Maybe Outlaw will release a new unit in the next few months that includes DPL II, DTS ES, and more new technology added??? I can dream can't I.