[ForceMajeure]

Hey guys!

I've been interested in making my own pair of CIEMs lately and I've spent the past few days diving head first into this massive thread, and I'd like to thank each and every one of you for contributing to this compendium of information!

Now, I have a few questions to ask before committing to buying gear and materials. These questions are mainly aimed towards the shell-making process, as I don't even want to think about the electronics until I can get a decent shell process down.

1) What's currently the go-to material for making investments? From an availability and ease-of-use perspective, it seems @Shilohsjustice's gelatin + glycerine technique is currently the most optimal. However, are there any other techniques that trade-off the ease-of-use and availability of gelatin for a better result? I've seen hydrocolloid, among other materials, mentioned a few times here and I'd like to know its advantages against gelatin. I'd honestly rather work with gelatin so I won't have to wait for stuff to ship over, but if other materials like hydrocolloid offer significant gains, then I'll be open to options.

2) Is there a resource from which I can buy the majority of my gear and materials? I'd like to keep shipping to a minimum, as I live in Indonesia and it isn't the most resourceful or easy-to-ship-to place. So, are there any one or two sites where I can get enough gear and materials to get started? So far, I've checked out lightningenterprises.com. Please let me know if there are other sites I should visit.

3) Is there a more common alternative for Dreve Fotoplast S/IO? This is a question I ask mainly because I want to spend time prototyping, creating solid acrylic copies of my impressions, and getting a feel for things before using Dreve material for actual shells. Can I use something like UV gel for nails as a temporary substitute? I'm aware that Fotoplast will yield different results, but I'd like to make it easier on myself first before I do anything super serious.

Again, incredibly grateful to everyone here for the knowledge you've built up for newbies such as myself to get started, and anyone who'll take the time to answer the myriad of questions I will undoubtedly have in the future. Otherwise, I can't wait to get started and join you guys on this ridiculous hobby we call DIY audio!

If there is one thing you should get from this major thread is that having the right material will yield the correct results. You will loose less money in the long run. Gaining experience curing non professional material will not give you the experience needed to deal with professional material as they behave differently and will lead to frustration.

The go to material to make investments is the professional colloid and can be reused numerous times, DO NOT heat it in the microwave.
You are lucky cause a year ago there wasn't one place where you could have bought the majority of things needed in one stop. Soundlink store in Aliexpress sells pro gear. You could use taobao to buy stuff also. Shipping things from the states outside the US is complicated. liquids cannot be shipped usually and shipping in itself is expensive, but you could try.
Soundlink don't have lacquer as far as I know, so you'll have to find a different source for that.

The best resins out there are Dreve fotoplast S/IO and Egger LP/H. you could try the Nice-Fit resin also (cheaper but apparently not the same quality but should be good enough).
Whatever you choose to do buy at least 100gr of resin, so you can master the process (good for around 10-12 pairs).
Don't think that because this is DIY it's cheaper than getting a ciem cause it's not...material are expensive and costs add up fast.

This is my opinion, may be others have another point of view.

 

[Deezel177]

If there is one thing you should get from this major thread is that having the right material will yield the correct results. You will loose less money in the long run. Gaining experience curing non professional material will not give you the experience needed to deal with professional material as they behave differently and will lead to frustration.

The go to material to make investments is the professional colloid and can be reused numerous times, DO NOT heat it in the microwave.
You are lucky cause a year ago there wasn't one place where you could have bought the majority of things needed in one stop. Soundlink store in Aliexpress sells pro gear. You could use taobao to buy stuff also. Shipping things from the states outside the US is complicated. liquids cannot be shipped usually and shipping in itself is expensive, but you could try.
Soundlink don't have lacquer as far as I know, so you'll have to find a different source for that.

The best resins out there are Dreve fotoplast S/IO and Egger LP/H. you could try the Nice-Fit resin also (cheaper but apparently not the same quality but should be good enough).
Whatever you choose to do buy at least 100gr of resin, so you can master the process (good for around 10-12 pairs).
Don't think that because this is DIY it's cheaper than getting a ciem cause it's not...material are expensive and costs add up fast.

This is my opinion, may be others have another point of view.

Thank you @ForceMajeure! I will certainly check out Soundlink's page and see what I can grab. I've also found Warner Tech's page in the mean time and they seem to sell literally EVERYTHING. Though, I'll have to wait for my account to be approved to buy anything, and see if they can ship outside of the US. I'm also looking for a source for Dreve Fotoplast S/IO, and the Soundlink page you referred to may be the answer.

I'm FULLY aware of this hobby being more expensive than purchasing a CIEM outright; I'm not going into it to save money, I'm simply an electrical engineering and audio engineering graduate looking for something to do! Though, considering I haven't seen a circuit or a soldering iron in years, I'm pretty stoked to get reacquainted with it doing something I'm genuinely excited about!

 

[ForceMajeure]

Warner Tech is great, they have everything, even buffing compound. Shilo have experience buying from them.
Oaktreeproducts is another option in the US where you can find many things including Dreve and Egger stuff you should check them also.

 

[tomekk]

My universal (and custom fit for my ears of course ) shell for tests of different configs. I plan to stick pvc tubes inside shell and drill small holes in faceplate. Finally, small screws on top and every day I can test different configurations of crossovers and dampers.

The shells are prepared on the basis of ear impression. Ofc dual bore 2mm ready.
I was inspired by the Shure 535 housing from Taobao.

PS: My new fetish is socket cutting

 

[Makahl]

Guys, I was rebuilding my IEM (RAB-32257 + GK) in another shell and accidentally the wire on positive terminal dropped off now I can't solder it, is there a way to make a joint or save the RAB without the terminal? Thank you!

 

[rellik]

Buy some Brokolinni! Bee my gueses or is it guises.

 

[ziixtreme]

Hey guys!

I've been interested in making my own pair of CIEMs lately and I've spent the past few days diving head first into this massive thread, and I'd like to thank each and every one of you for contributing to this compendium of information!

Now, I have a few questions to ask before committing to buying gear and materials. These questions are mainly aimed towards the shell-making process, as I don't even want to think about the electronics until I can get a decent shell process down.

1) What's currently the go-to material for making investments? From an availability and ease-of-use perspective, it seems @Shilohsjustice's gelatin + glycerine technique is currently the most optimal. However, are there any other techniques that trade-off the ease-of-use and availability of gelatin for a better result? I've seen hydrocolloid, among other materials, mentioned a few times here and I'd like to know its advantages against gelatin. I'd honestly rather work with gelatin so I won't have to wait for stuff to ship over, but if other materials like hydrocolloid offer significant gains, then I'll be open to options.

2) Is there a resource from which I can buy the majority of my gear and materials? I'd like to keep shipping to a minimum, as I live in Indonesia and it isn't the most resourceful or easy-to-ship-to place. So, are there any one or two sites where I can get enough gear and materials to get started? So far, I've checked out lightningenterprises.com. Please let me know if there are other sites I should visit.

3) Is there a more common alternative for Dreve Fotoplast S/IO? This is a question I ask mainly because I want to spend time prototyping, creating solid acrylic copies of my impressions, and getting a feel for things before using Dreve material for actual shells. Can I use something like UV gel for nails as a temporary substitute? I'm aware that Fotoplast will yield different results, but I'd like to make it easier on myself first before I do anything super serious.

Again, incredibly grateful to everyone here for the knowledge you've built up for newbies such as myself to get started, and anyone who'll take the time to answer the myriad of questions I will undoubtedly have in the future. Otherwise, I can't wait to get started and join you guys on this ridiculous hobby we call DIY audio!

1) There are a lot of material to use for making the shells. I would suggest you to do some research on hearing aid resin. There are some brands available in the market.

2) Taobao/Aliexpress

3) Yes, but Dreve is the best I would say. In term of clearness if you were to make clear shells.

 

[cjxj]

This post is directed mainly toward Shilohsjustice, so perhaps could have only been a pm. However thought there might be others that have input or else would benefit. So... I'm a newbee that has spent quite a bit of time reading the wealth of material here. Noted a post from you (Shilohsjustice) quite a while back that you use in ear monitors through an aviom system while playing live guitar. I do the same (church setting - elect guitar and bass), and was interested to note your comments that implied that in your experience a set of in ears that sound great for general audio listening don't necessarily work the best (at least for you) in the live setting and I would assume vice-versa? This really struck a chord with me since that that's the reason I've become so interested in the topic. Although I can select and adjust what channels I want to hear, I still seem to end up pushing the sound level way too high to get to hear what I think I need to do my best. So, for starters I've ordered a kit from Luke at Diyearphone, but am still pondering how I want to stuff and tune them for use primarily in a live setting. I know my hearing is likely quite different from yours, but was wondering what you ended up deciding worked best for you specifically in that environment. In my case I've already lost quite a bit of high end due to abuse and advancing age. Dumb to have waited this long to be concerned about it. Now trying to conserve what's left of my hearing while still being able to hear what I need in order to do best what I enjoy..... I do realize I'm probably in for a lot of experimentation, but any comments/advice to jump start would be appreciated.

 

[Shilohsjustice]

@cjxj There are some differences between listening to your monitors through your phone or an iPod compared to live situations for sure. I use a flac player to listen to personal music as it allows to control the quality much better. Live audio produces a wider range of frequencies as apposed to a mixed down compressed cd.

When I'm playing I use a 3 driver setup as it suites me for tonality and clarity. I mix my own monitor feed so it is EQ'd to my particular style and taste. My mix typically includes no background vocals, drums, bass, keys, and rhythm guitar, and light on lead vocals as well as a click track.

If you are struggling to hear tonality you may need to adjust your monitor mix accordingly.

The GK three way is a fantastic setup for a three way. I like the CI driver to have a red damper and the TWFK to have a green damper. This is all the tuning you need to have a great 3-way that covers a good frequency response.

Louder is not better, so pull the volumes down, and spend some time eq'ing your mix. What I did was pull all out Musicians in for a workshop and mixed everyone's eq's to correctly represent the tones wanted to weed out over powering frequencies.

I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for.

 

[Deezel177]

1) There are a lot of material to use for making the shells. I would suggest you to do some research on hearing aid resin. There are some brands available in the market.

2) Taobao/Aliexpress

3) Yes, but Dreve is the best I would say. In term of clearness if you were to make clear shells.

Thanks @ziixtreme! I've contacted both Warner Tech and Chris from Lightning Enterprises and they've both informed me they can ship their products to Indonesia (apart from UV lacquer, which is flammable). Soundlink's page on Aliexpress (as per @ForceMajeure's suggestion) is also a fantastic source, but they might take about two months to ship things over, so I'll see if Warner or Chris can beat that time.

This post is directed mainly toward Shilohsjustice, so perhaps could have only been a pm. However thought there might be others that have input or else would benefit. So... I'm a newbee that has spent quite a bit of time reading the wealth of material here. Noted a post from you (Shilohsjustice) quite a while back that you use in ear monitors through an aviom system while playing live guitar. I do the same (church setting - elect guitar and bass), and was interested to note your comments that implied that in your experience a set of in ears that sound great for general audio listening don't necessarily work the best (at least for you) in the live setting and I would assume vice-versa? This really struck a chord with me since that that's the reason I've become so interested in the topic. Although I can select and adjust what channels I want to hear, I still seem to end up pushing the sound level way too high to get to hear what I think I need to do my best. So, for starters I've ordered a kit from Luke at Diyearphone, but am still pondering how I want to stuff and tune them for use primarily in a live setting. I know my hearing is likely quite different from yours, but was wondering what you ended up deciding worked best for you specifically in that environment. In my case I've already lost quite a bit of high end due to abuse and advancing age. Dumb to have waited this long to be concerned about it. Now trying to conserve what's left of my hearing while still being able to hear what I need in order to do best what I enjoy..... I do realize I'm probably in for a lot of experimentation, but any comments/advice to jump start would be appreciated.

Hi @cjxj! My church uses the exact same system (Aviom -> IEMs). What I've found helps monitoring most is isolation and a boost in your particular frequency of interest. Isolation is instrumental in making sure you have a blank canvas as far as your personal mix goes, and no outside noise tampers with the mix you've made for yourself. Secondly, if you were to tune your own IEMs or select IEMs of a specific tuning, I'd suggest one that boosts the frequency range that you'd depend on most. This is why I assume @Shilohsjustice mentioned IEMs being great for general audio listening aren't necessarily great for live environments; we generally want a balanced signature for audio playback, while one coloured for your specific purpose(s) is preferred for monitoring. For example, my church's drummer requires a bassier signature as he relies on that particular frequency range to keep tempo, and the choir uses mid-forward IEMs to monitor their singing as well as the pianist/keyboardist's playing, with rolled-off highs so cymbals and hi-hats don't get in the way and get too loud. For example, you as a guitarist and bassist might want to build an IEM with boosted bass and mid frequencies, and make your fit tighter, as well as fill the shell with acrylic/silicone, to further improve isolation. Though, these are just my two cents, hope they help in the end!

 

[rellik]

UV cure silicone is much more friendly than acrylic and doesnt have that nasty aldehyde/ketone smell ultra bitter(?) taste/sickly sweet smell and visa versa from the decomposing alcohols.

It can be purchased in various Shore ratings to get the desires stiffness.

At least its not an acetyl like Delrin...hmm, I personally dont mind Delrin. Reminds me to use the toilet.

Silicones contain borosilicate based siloxanes which tend to trap and redox (boro) reduce/ (siloxane) oxidize and release body odors in a more even manner. Depends on porosity though.

Polycarbonates just like to stay chunky...

 

[cjxj]

Thanks @Shilohsjustice and @Deezel177. Good info. It's a learning experience for sure. Although I can mix what channels I hear as well as overall basic treble/bass in my aviom, I do not believe there are individual monitor feeds that could be EQ'd at the board. Most of the time I feel I'm fighting upper mids too forward in my universals, but I do know that much of that can be attributed to poor sound isolation and my hearing. I already have a pair of HE 31751's (which are a combo of one each CI22955 & ED29689 i believe) so I'll start there along with red and green dampers. My thinking is that since I don't hear much above about 11 khz, perhaps I don't need a TWFK? And.. I now have a variety of BA's and other supplies coming (sometime, I trust) from Taobao and have collected supplies and fotoplast resin to try my hand at shell making. Who knows where this will lead.

 

[Deezel177]

Thanks @Shilohsjustice and @Deezel177. Good info. It's a learning experience for sure. Although I can mix what channels I hear as well as overall basic treble/bass in my aviom, I do not believe there are individual monitor feeds that could be EQ'd at the board. Most of the time I feel I'm fighting upper mids too forward in my universals, but I do know that much of that can be attributed to poor sound isolation and my hearing. I already have a pair of HE 31751's (which are a combo of one each CI22955 & ED29689 i believe) so I'll start there along with red and green dampers. My thinking is that since I don't hear much above about 11 khz, perhaps I don't need a TWFK? And.. I now have a variety of BA's and other supplies coming (sometime, I trust) from Taobao and have collected supplies and fotoplast resin to try my hand at shell making. Who knows where this will lead.

Yeah, unfortunately EQing auxes at the board are very much a luxury, but the beauty of home-made IEMs is the ability to tailor its sound, such that the EQ takes place in the IEM. That, or the more complex way would be to feed the headphone out of the Aviom into a parametric EQ and then into the IEM. Your comment about the upper mids is also an example of the notion that audiophile IEMs aren't the best monitoring IEMs and vice versa. For example, I love upper mids and I require them for detail and clarity when listening to music, however the band and I (when playing) prefer a more tame, balanced, and warm signature so cymbals and strings aren't intrusive and sharp. Even when I mix, I tend to only use neutral and analytical IEMs/headphones/speaker systems to check for mistakes and adjust imaging, and I use more natural-and-organic-sounding (yet still transparent) ones to finalise tone, EQ, and balance. This is because using the former from the start induces ear fatigue far too quickly, and using the latter usually allows the final mix to sound bolder, more emotive, and more fun.

 

[David Perkins]

A few things I figured out...
After the shell is removed from the mold, and submerged in VG I use a piece of clear plastic on the surface of the VG to stop the shell from floating up and exposing it to air.
Using modeling clay rolled into a spaghetti like strand, then stuck to a mirror to encircle the shell, I was able to make faceplates with same Dreve UV resin as the shells. The side on the mirror is nice and flat for attaching to the shell. I like Solarez hard finish doming resin for the outside of the face plate.

 

[loganmark]

Have the best that you deserve.