[et.haan]

Actually KZ ES4 but bigger


its already been done

me and @Jedrula1 have our own spiral damper
it is a low pass with a centrifugal particle acceleration to keep time domain constant

give a sense of depth to the bass


plus it doesn't require dampers and crossover

i can do those, but zs4 would probably be easier, theres a lot more pictures.

I would just use loft tool around a ton of planes, if you know inventor/autodesk

 

[dhruvmeena96]

i can do those, but zs4 would probably be easier, theres a lot more pictures.

I would just use loft tool around a ton of planes, if you know inventor/autodesk

No prob

Need a shell which can be used universally by everybody
Make the cavity inside zs4 shell bigger by extending it outside

 

[et.haan]

For everybody who bought a Dayton iMM-6, and immediately regretted it, due to its “inability” to be used as a 711 (due to its size) I figured it out. Not sure if anybody else has posted this but hua!(french)
Take the mic and some 1/2 width electrical tape. Wrap the little cutout portion until it is exactly .5in across. Make sure this tape is flat with the end of the mic.

Next, go find a .5in tube. I didn’t have one, so I used a nerf mega bullet (lol). It is exactly .5in across in inner diameter. Yes, the foam will have a damping affect on HF, (reflections) but due to the inability of the 711 to measure past 10-13.5khz, it won’t matter. Glue it on with hot glue, and make sure to seal the end. That seal is very important. Next, take a dowel or something, and make a mark at 15.75mm, and cut the tube/dart there. You can have as much of the bullet over the
mic as you want, but be sure to have as close to 15.75mm of actual overhang as possible.
Next, you need some bluetac. If you aren’t sure it makes a seal, use hot glue. I didn’t have much blue tac, so this helped. Poke a hole in the center of it, and put a driver/tube into it. If you are confident it made a seal, you are done! If not, more glue.


I measured mine with a HODVTEC-31618, and got surprisingly good results.



The lighter line color is the peak, or accurate sine/pink noise. Be sure to look at the dB, on the left, it has an odd scale to it.
reference:

For 20 minutes, and only parts around the house, I will certainly take that.

 

[Andrumgt]

If you’d only use millimeters instead of inches....

 

[et.haan]

If you’d only use millimeters instead of inches....

lol sorry for using both, I was just reading that furco post on page 2xx. It called for a 1/2in mic and the rest was in MM.

 

[et.haan]

This could be totally wrong, and it is all in laymans terms, because I dont totally get this.

Anyways, I was thinking.... so Zobel makes no physical change to driver, only electrical. does the impedance of a driver really matter that much, enough to completely rework a drivers sound, and give it a massive soundstage/precise imaging? I was thinking, with dacs as nice as the Dragonfly and THX 789, there is no way that a zobel (if I understand what they do correctly) could make that much of a difference... I know BA is known for crazy inductance, something that is known to harm sound quality. Is this what it reduces? I dont see these amps have an issue with the resistance of a driver, just the inductance.... It makes sense to me, because I know inductance value is required for a zobel circuit.

I hear that with RAB it gives deep, rumbeling lows.... I thought this was largely impossible to change electrically, due to how the very fast speed of a BA gives it a "thin" sound. I know acoustic damping is acoustic/pnemuatic resistance, so it sound thicker and richer, due to a slower driver speed.... same thing with the highs. Does this mean that a Zobel can change the physical speed of a driver, like what could be seen on a waterfall plot?

Is there any reason not to use a Zobel... ever? If so, why isnt it incorporated into BA's, inside the housing? Does it have an application for the EST?

Also, in a circuit, where would I place it? I think, if I were to only use zobel, it would be like this (a few different applications)

MMCX/2pin > zobel > L-pad (only attatched to RC for that driver, dtec/cl/38xx/33xx) > RC filters > driver
MMCX/2pin > zobel > RC > drivers
MMCX/2pin > zobel > driver

or

MMCX/2pin > rc > zobel(s?) > driver


I think that the RC would always go after a L-pad so calculation can be made with less resistance, unless its required, for a low capacitance crossover?

Do you guys calculate crossover points with DC impedance?

I see on calculators I could do an L-pad, or use a single resistor (much higher value).... Is this how much resistance would go up?

Also, does etymotic have a zobel? On Rtings it has weird phase... Is this what a zobel does to phase?

 

[dhruvmeena96]

This could be totally wrong, and it is all in laymans terms, because I dont totally get this.

Anyways, I was thinking.... so Zobel makes no physical change to driver, only electrical. does the impedance of a driver really matter that much, enough to completely rework a drivers sound, and give it a massive soundstage/precise imaging? I was thinking, with dacs as nice as the Dragonfly and THX 789, there is no way that a zobel (if I understand what they do correctly) could make that much of a difference... I know BA is known for crazy inductance, something that is known to harm sound quality. Is this what it reduces? I dont see these amps have an issue with the resistance of a driver, just the inductance.... It makes sense to me, because I know inductance value is required for a zobel circuit.

I hear that with RAB it gives deep, rumbeling lows.... I thought this was largely impossible to change electrically, due to how the very fast speed of a BA gives it a "thin" sound. I know acoustic damping is acoustic/pnemuatic resistance, so it sound thicker and richer, due to a slower driver speed.... same thing with the highs. Does this mean that a Zobel can change the physical speed of a driver, like what could be seen on a waterfall plot?

Is there any reason not to use a Zobel... ever? If so, why isnt it incorporated into BA's, inside the housing? Does it have an application for the EST?

Also, in a circuit, where would I place it? I think, if I were to only use zobel, it would be like this (a few different applications)

MMCX/2pin > zobel > L-pad (only attatched to RC for that driver, dtec/cl/38xx/33xx) > RC filters > driver
MMCX/2pin > zobel > RC > drivers
MMCX/2pin > zobel > driver

or

MMCX/2pin > rc > zobel(s?) > driver


I think that the RC would always go after a L-pad so calculation can be made with less resistance, unless its required, for a low capacitance crossover?

Do you guys calculate crossover points with DC impedance?

I see on calculators I could do an L-pad, or use a single resistor (much higher value).... Is this how much resistance would go up?

Also, does etymotic have a zobel? On Rtings it has weird phase... Is this what a zobel does to phase?

Zobel attaches directly to driver


Driver - zobel - any circuit - mmcx

Zobel is used for equalising voltage on driver, which flattens the impedance.

It makes resonant point sound smoother.

But its better used in crossing driver as it makes crossing very easy and specific

 

[eunice]

Zobel does not change the phase. If you where to look at a dac/amp as a perfect source with zero output impedance, zero output capacitance and zero output inductance and have a perfect cable with 0 ohms a Zobel would not change anything.

But that does not exist!

Assume your dac has an output impedance of 10 Ohms (high assumption) and your BA has an impedance of 10 Ohms for the bass and 20 Ohms for the highs. (Realistic assumption).

In that case you can imagine a perfect source, 10 Ohms output impedance of the dac in series to the 10 Ohms of the BA for bass sounds. That forms a voltage divider and 50% of the voltage would be present at the driver for bass. For highs it’s 10 Ohms in series and 20 Ohms of the BA, again that is a voltage divider and 66% of the voltage would be present at the driver for highs.

If you put a network in parallel to the driver that has an inverse impedance curve the output impedance of the dac does not have an impact at all.

To counter this effect most speaker amps already have a Zobel at the output stage, I don’t know if that’s also true for headphone amp but I would imagine yes. But these Zobels are designed for dynamic drivers, they have a pretty predictable impedance curve. BAs on the other hand have rollercoasters of impedance curves. Except if you are Custom Art that is. @piotrus-g uses custom drivers with a very flat impedance curve in the Fibae series.

 

[DannyBouwhuis]

Zobel attaches directly to driver


Driver - zobel - any circuit - mmcx

Zobel is used for equalising voltage on driver, which flattens the impedance.

It makes resonant point sound smoother.

But its better used in crossing driver as it makes crossing very easy and specific

How would someone design a zobel network for an entire circuit ? Using diffrent ba's ? I'm having trouble calculating this

 

[eunice]

It’s not possible. A simple Zobel with a resistor and a cap has an impedance that goes down with frequency. BAs have weirdly shaped curves so you have to find it by ear.
@Ivan TT put a ton of caps on a breadboard and experimented by ear. He came up with a rule of thumb to start, can’t remember it though, you’ll have to dig this thread for that info.

 

[Choy Wei De]

This could be totally wrong, and it is all in laymans terms, because I dont totally get this.

Anyways, I was thinking.... so Zobel makes no physical change to driver, only electrical. does the impedance of a driver really matter that much, enough to completely rework a drivers sound, and give it a massive soundstage/precise imaging? I was thinking, with dacs as nice as the Dragonfly and THX 789, there is no way that a zobel (if I understand what they do correctly) could make that much of a difference... I know BA is known for crazy inductance, something that is known to harm sound quality. Is this what it reduces? I dont see these amps have an issue with the resistance of a driver, just the inductance.... It makes sense to me, because I know inductance value is required for a zobel circuit.

I hear that with RAB it gives deep, rumbeling lows.... I thought this was largely impossible to change electrically, due to how the very fast speed of a BA gives it a "thin" sound. I know acoustic damping is acoustic/pnemuatic resistance, so it sound thicker and richer, due to a slower driver speed.... same thing with the highs. Does this mean that a Zobel can change the physical speed of a driver, like what could be seen on a waterfall plot?

Is there any reason not to use a Zobel... ever? If so, why isnt it incorporated into BA's, inside the housing? Does it have an application for the EST?

Also, in a circuit, where would I place it? I think, if I were to only use zobel, it would be like this (a few different applications)

MMCX/2pin > zobel > L-pad (only attatched to RC for that driver, dtec/cl/38xx/33xx) > RC filters > driver
MMCX/2pin > zobel > RC > drivers
MMCX/2pin > zobel > driver

or

MMCX/2pin > rc > zobel(s?) > driver


I think that the RC would always go after a L-pad so calculation can be made with less resistance, unless its required, for a low capacitance crossover?

Do you guys calculate crossover points with DC impedance?

I see on calculators I could do an L-pad, or use a single resistor (much higher value).... Is this how much resistance would go up?

Also, does etymotic have a zobel? On Rtings it has weird phase... Is this what a zobel does to phase?

I donno why, but Zobel on RAB makes all the difference to me. I can’t listen to RAB without Zobel. I have not tried other drivers with Zobel yet.

 

[dhruvmeena96]

Zobel does not change the phase. If you where to look at a dac/amp as a perfect source with zero output impedance, zero output capacitance and zero output inductance and have a perfect cable with 0 ohms a Zobel would not change anything.

But that does not exist!

Assume your dac has an output impedance of 10 Ohms (high assumption) and your BA has an impedance of 10 Ohms for the bass and 20 Ohms for the highs. (Realistic assumption).

In that case you can imagine a perfect source, 10 Ohms output impedance of the dac in series to the 10 Ohms of the BA for bass sounds. That forms a voltage divider and 50% of the voltage would be present at the driver for bass. For highs it’s 10 Ohms in series and 20 Ohms of the BA, again that is a voltage divider and 66% of the voltage would be present at the driver for highs.

If you put a network in parallel to the driver that has an inverse impedance curve the output impedance of the dac does not have an impact at all.

To counter this effect most speaker amps already have a Zobel at the output stage, I don’t know if that’s also true for headphone amp but I would imagine yes. But these Zobels are designed for dynamic drivers, they have a pretty predictable impedance curve. BAs on the other hand have rollercoasters of impedance curves. Except if you are Custom Art that is. @piotrus-g uses custom drivers with a very flat impedance curve in the Fibae series.

Even I touch flat impedance on circuit
And its easy to calculate zobel once you have impedance graph

@piotrus-g uses a confidential driver...
Hahahaha

 

[et.haan]

Zobel does not change the phase. If you where to look at a dac/amp as a perfect source with zero output impedance, zero output capacitance and zero output inductance and have a perfect cable with 0 ohms a Zobel would not change anything.

But that does not exist!

Assume your dac has an output impedance of 10 Ohms (high assumption) and your BA has an impedance of 10 Ohms for the bass and 20 Ohms for the highs. (Realistic assumption).

In that case you can imagine a perfect source, 10 Ohms output impedance of the dac in series to the 10 Ohms of the BA for bass sounds. That forms a voltage divider and 50% of the voltage would be present at the driver for bass. For highs it’s 10 Ohms in series and 20 Ohms of the BA, again that is a voltage divider and 66% of the voltage would be present at the driver for highs.

If you put a network in parallel to the driver that has an inverse impedance curve the output impedance of the dac does not have an impact at all.

To counter this effect most speaker amps already have a Zobel at the output stage, I don’t know if that’s also true for headphone amp but I would imagine yes. But these Zobels are designed for dynamic drivers, they have a pretty predictable impedance curve. BAs on the other hand have rollercoasters of impedance curves. Except if you are Custom Art that is. @piotrus-g uses custom drivers with a very flat impedance curve in the Fibae series.

Okay, so if not zobel, what would change the phase like that?

Also, isnt rising inductance a characteristic of BA's, which is unavoidable due to the physics of their voice coils? I do not understand how TCA could do this physically, without a zobel or a circuit similar to a zobel. On that one google docs, it lists they use pretty typical drivers.... FK, Cl, 38xx, 37xx, 17xx. Also, from a mfg. standpoint, I dont get why other manufacturers dont use this design. I feel TCA doesnt sell as near as many units as 64 or UE does, so I dont know how they can have the money to do such a thing. 64 does crazy stuff, like chopping the sides off of their drivers, but they cant solve this issue (or so i think...I cant find a impedance graph, and you guys dont talk about their impedance so....)

 

[et.haan]

How do some of you put the tubes down through smaller canals?
I know some people stop the tubes short of the exit and bore a hole for the sound to escape. (Not sure how to even do this method and get the tubes the exact distance from the exit on each monitor). I had a broken pair of westones one time and they did this. I just feel like each ear won’t sound the same if the tubes aren’t in the exact same location, right?
I’ve always done the method where you put measurements on the tubes, pull the tube out the end of your bore hole and make sure the same length is coming out of both iems. But I’ve only ever done one tube. So idk how to even go about making two fit

Secondly, when companies like JH Audio do the small metal tubes at the end of their iems, doesn’t that tiny diameter metal tube change the sound?

lol, I am looking back on old posts, and just now saw this.

For the tubes that stop short of the end of the canal, you could try taping them together (so they all sit level, and then tape the bores. Fill 2-3mm (from the bottom) with glue. No glue in bores, no glue below sound bores. I guess this could act as a stepped horn.

I read online that a primary reflection increases timbre and clarity, but secondary and third reflections reduce sound quality and clarity. Doing just the ends of the tubes in metal (the correct length could be determined with wavelength), and give primary reflections. Unique melody also does this.

But I dont know if you do this to meet at the ear drum, or at the end of the IEM. Look at this picture from comsol, and pay attention to how sound output from port reflects off of the sound output of the driver. Notice how they stay seperated, and dont combine.

 

[et.haan]

To everybody who are interested in technology

Meze Audio Rai penta IEM technology demystified

The pressure equalization system is technology like APEX module or Asius filters I.e to lower ear pressure

But it doesn't use any plug and play adapters.

Its very simple technology, which works

A vent in front of DD and a vent in back of DD calculated in such a manner that when pressure returns from our ear towards the DD, it equalises the pressure between two vents.

The vent at back of DD is considerably bigger( the tri dot and fidget spinner design vent is designed to give maximum air flow with least isolation loss) then the vent in front of DD.

The vent in front of DD is like normal IEM vent, which helps in releasing direct pressure. But the back pressure let's the dynamic driver stay at certain position, plus added ear pressure from BA, can lead to pressure stagnation in ear canal, so they made the DD back vent large enough to release maximum build up pressure from back and let the DD move according to returning pressure...plus the front vent again relieves us from the stagnated pressure.

So its like convention earphone with buildup pressure release. I think it works way better than APEX and asius tech as it tries to maintain environmental pressure inside ear instead of isolation all air and making it move like spring inside ear

so its like a loop..extra air pressure not directed down the tube gets sent as back volume to woofer... interesting... couldnt that breifly change response?

Isnt this what you tried doing, where you had the sound bore with a T joint. Straight line from driver to ear. Bend back to the port? You said it sounded like open back headphones